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Post by incandenza on Jul 15, 2022 14:32:00 GMT -5
I'll give this one last shot: which "average first baseman" should Bloom have acquired, and for what price? Bell Cooper Cron Santana Well there you go. If you think the Sox should be sellers… then fine, they should’ve sold off on JD or Eovaldi… and they still might although the price has gone down on both. Whatever they are doing now, neither selling nor seriously trying to contend is not helpful. No, what should he have done before the season to address 1B? We can get angry at him for failing to upgrade by the trade deadline when that happens.
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Post by manfred on Jul 15, 2022 14:33:09 GMT -5
Well, it might have created other issues, yes, because I would probably view Kiké as my 2b, try to get one more ok OF, go with Verdugo, JBJ, outfielder X, and eventually Duran. Back to "I simply would have gotten a better player." (Presumably with the money you wouldn't have spent on Paxton? Maybe Tommy Pham?)
It's interesting that you would stick with the Renfroe-JBJ trade.
I am not sticking with it so much as accepting it happened. I’d as soon go Verdugo-Duran-Renfroe. Mix Kiké into CF and Arroyo at 2b. But it is all fantasy league, so it doesn’t much matter.
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Post by manfred on Jul 15, 2022 14:34:49 GMT -5
Back to "I simply would have gotten a better player." (Presumably with the money you wouldn't have spent on Paxton? Maybe Tommy Pham?)
It's interesting that you would stick with the Renfroe-JBJ trade.
I am not sticking with it so much as accepting it happened. I’d as soon go Verdugo-Duran-Renfroe. Mix Kiké into CF and Arroyo at 2b. But it is all fantasy league, so it doesn’t much matter. Add: though I will say, I am only mildly against that trade. I agree with much of what folks have said in its favor and do not look at JBJ-Renfroe exchange as decisive in any way.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 15, 2022 14:35:09 GMT -5
In terms of Paxton for all we know he comes back strong as ever and gives them 2.5ish years of being a number 3 starter for basically not even 5th starter money since the contract can reach 35 mil over 3 years if the options are exercised. I'm not going to sit here until we see how he comes back and say they shouldn't have signed him. Well, we *know* we won’t get 2.5 years from him since he’s not even throwing to batters yet. 2.2 is probably best-case scenario. Fair point but as I said if he looks good and they decide to bring him back next year and he pitches to even a 4th starter level for his option then we may be singing a different tune on him. I guess my point is that in my mind I'm not ready to write the deal off as a loss but I can understand why some might write it off already with his history.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 15, 2022 14:35:25 GMT -5
Back to "I simply would have gotten a better player." (Presumably with the money you wouldn't have spent on Paxton? Maybe Tommy Pham?)
It's interesting that you would stick with the Renfroe-JBJ trade.
I am not sticking with it so much as accepting it happened. I’d as soon go Verdugo-Duran-Renfroe. Mix Kiké into CF and Arroyo at 2b. But it is all fantasy league, so it doesn’t much matter. The pitching staff might be grabbing their torches and pitchforks if they went with that defensive alignment.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 15, 2022 14:38:22 GMT -5
Bell Cooper Cron Santana Well there you go. If you think the Sox should be sellers… then fine, they should’ve sold off on JD or Eovaldi… and they still might although the price has gone down on both. Whatever they are doing now, neither selling nor seriously trying to contend is not helpful. No, what should he have done before the season to address 1B? We can get angry at him for failing to upgrade by the trade deadline when that happens.
Ever heard of Steve Pearce? Lookup when the Red Sox acquired him in 2018. Dave regularly made in-season moves. I get it takes two parties to make a transaction but this is a glaring need and we all knew the Red Sox had a tough stretch in July against the Yankees and Rays and they’re getting killed with god awful first base performance. Moreover, you can’t really say with a straight face that someone like CJ Cron playing for a team like the Rockies would demand a King’s ransom.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 15, 2022 14:40:55 GMT -5
No, what should he have done before the season to address 1B? We can get angry at him for failing to upgrade by the trade deadline when that happens.
Ever heard of Steve Pearce? Lookup when the Red Sox acquired him in 2018. Dave regularly made in-season moves. I get it takes two parties to make a transaction but this is a glaring need and we all knew the Red Sox had a tough stretch in July against the Yankees and Rays and they’re getting killed with god awful first base performance. Moreover, you can’t really say with a straight face that someone like CJ Cron playing for a team like the Rockies would demand a King’s ransom. The Rockies have been reportedly turning down almost any inquiry on cron and just barely signed him to an extension last year so I can sit here with a straight face and say I do believe cron isn't available for anything less than a package that quite honestly he's not worth to me.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 15, 2022 14:42:33 GMT -5
No, what should he have done before the season to address 1B? We can get angry at him for failing to upgrade by the trade deadline when that happens.
Ever heard of Steve Pearce? Lookup when the Red Sox acquired him in 2018. Dave regularly made in-season moves. I get it takes two parties to make a transaction but this is a glaring need and we all knew the Red Sox had a tough stretch in July against the Yankees and Rays and they’re getting killed with god awful first base performance. Moreover, you can’t really say with a straight face that someone like CJ Cron playing for a team like the Rockies would demand a King’s ransom. Okay, so your complaint isn't about the offseason; it's that they haven't made a trade with teams that probably aren't even ready to make trades yet.
From reports, it looks like Cron won't be available. I doubt Cooper will be. Bell surely will, but it's still early. Santana was obviously available, so fair enough if you think that's the big move Bloom should have made.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 15, 2022 15:03:15 GMT -5
I feel mostly in line with how Incandenza is speaking in terms of the situation the Sox find themselves at first base but I'm going to leave one last post regarding the whole OF/1st Base quagmire the Sox are currently in. Obviously the roster is very flawed seeing how they are among the league bottom in terms of first base and overall OF production. Personally I don't see a whole lot of options that were available this offseason that would have made much difference if any, hindsight is 20/20 and I will say the Renfroe for JBJ deal right now is looking to be a big ole L to me. Would Renfroe have fixed the whole issue? Nope, not even close but he would certainly help at least bring them closer to the middle than the bottom. In terms of first base, I'd say their plan has been to wait on Casas and hope he's ready sooner than later and didn't want to allocate funds into Rizzo for two years and certainly not Freeman for what he got. Bloom obviously felt Dalbec showed enough to hopefully at least stabilize the position to league average and for some reason that the shell of Shaw was going to be at least worthy of being a backup bench 1st base. Another swing and a miss right there but as I said in another post the pickings at first base outside of Rizzo/Freeman weren't just slim they were basically nothing looking at how the options have done so far to date. The OF is a bit of a can of worms but looking at it post Renfroe deal what the options were, once again basically slim pickings in that regard too.
There wasn't much to be done this past offseason, the free agent OFs this coming season aren't much better than last either. However Bloom had better upgrade the OF this coming offseason because if we see an OF of some combo of Verdugo, Duran, JBJ/some platoon type of player as a fan I will be pretty pissed. For First Base, I would strongly hope he gets a lefty 1st base who can hit righties fairly well to platoon with Dalbec until Casas is ready since I don't see them putting much else in terms of resources into the position. All of that needs to be addressed and that's not even looking at the even bigger looming cloud being Xander and a year out Rafi but that's a different convo. Either way Bloom to me is going to need to show some serious creativity and team building savy next year or I will probably start to sour on him.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Jul 15, 2022 15:15:18 GMT -5
Ever heard of Steve Pearce? Lookup when the Red Sox acquired him in 2018. Dave regularly made in-season moves. Moreover, you can’t really say with a straight face that someone like CJ Cron playing for a team like the Rockies would demand a King’s ransom. Okay, so your complaint isn't about the offseason; it's that they haven't made a trade with teams that probably aren't even ready to make trades yet.
From reports, it looks like Cron won't be available. I doubt Cooper will be. Bell surely will, but it's still early. Santana was obviously available, so fair enough if you think that's the big move Bloom should have made.
Nats' Joey Meneses, RHB 1B, 17 HR. Could be had for cheap.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 15, 2022 16:44:10 GMT -5
Ever heard of Steve Pearce? Lookup when the Red Sox acquired him in 2018. Dave regularly made in-season moves. I get it takes two parties to make a transaction but this is a glaring need and we all knew the Red Sox had a tough stretch in July against the Yankees and Rays and they’re getting killed with god awful first base performance. Moreover, you can’t really say with a straight face that someone like CJ Cron playing for a team like the Rockies would demand a King’s ransom. The Rockies have been reportedly turning down almost any inquiry on cron and just barely signed him to an extension last year so I can sit here with a straight face and say I do believe cron isn't available for anything less than a package that quite honestly he's not worth to me. Are we talking about the same Rockies? The ones that gave away Nolan Arenado? Cron is a role player and they're miles away from contention.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Jul 15, 2022 17:18:15 GMT -5
The Rockies have been reportedly turning down almost any inquiry on cron and just barely signed him to an extension last year so I can sit here with a straight face and say I do believe cron isn't available for anything less than a package that quite honestly he's not worth to me. Are we talking about the same Rockies? The ones that gave away Nolan Arenado? Cron is a role player and they're miles away from contention. The Rockies are also known as the outlier that doesn't seem to trade veterans when they should. Trevor Story being a huge example where he basically begged to be traded at the deadline and wasn't.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 15, 2022 17:39:08 GMT -5
The Rockies have been reportedly turning down almost any inquiry on cron and just barely signed him to an extension last year so I can sit here with a straight face and say I do believe cron isn't available for anything less than a package that quite honestly he's not worth to me. Are we talking about the same Rockies? The ones that gave away Nolan Arenado? Cron is a role player and they're miles away from contention. Quite honestly there's no rhyme or reason to what the Rockies do half the time. Cron is at almost 3 WAR and is their all star so while i agree they aren't competing any time soon for some reason they obviously think they could soon looking at the deal they gave Bryant. Cron is likely going nowhere.
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