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9/9-9/11 Red Sox @ Orioles Series Thread
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Sept 10, 2022 16:25:57 GMT -5
how is that a swing ? BS.
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Post by GyIantosca on Sept 10, 2022 16:32:48 GMT -5
Thank you Raffy. That's what you do for your starter.
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Post by benzinger on Sept 10, 2022 16:59:18 GMT -5
I’m sure this is true. I bet there are a bunch of guys on the team that throw real hard(Dalbec being another one). These are elite athletes and many of them were good pitchers along they way. But why not have a premium arm like that in RF where it can really make an impact? Why hide it in LF? Ideally a RF in Fenway has range Renfroe didn’t but that’s why he looked like garbage defensively in the 2nd half. One thing that isn’t disputable is that he has one of the best outfield arms in the sport though so he played RF over Doogs. JBJ played RF because he’s one of the best defensive outfielders in the league, and he also has a cannon. I’m not saying Verdugo has even an elite arm, but you quite literally said he had no arm and zero tools. It couldn’t be further from the truth As an aside That’s a damn good baseball player If only the season started on June 1st you’d really have something here. At this pace, he’s due to really catch fire right around November 1st. And, just to correct the record, I conceded he has a good hit tool a while ago. He’s a one tool player when he’s on. The results have been a lot better lately, regardless. I’m pulling for him. And I never said he wasn’t worth $6m. That’s a few months of James Paxton’s rehab. I just said his low cost is basically his best asset. I’d much prefer that he was playing great and getting expensive.
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Post by manfred on Sept 10, 2022 17:17:35 GMT -5
If the Sox don’t sign X, they are dead to me.
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Post by dirtdog on Sept 10, 2022 17:20:09 GMT -5
If the Sox don’t sign X, they are dead to me. Got a feeling your fandom gonna get tested this winter.
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Post by manfred on Sept 10, 2022 17:21:36 GMT -5
If the Sox don’t sign X, they are dead to me. Got a feeling your fandom gonna get tested this winter. It’s been tested the last few winters. Now it is hanging by a thread.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,637
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Post by cdj on Sept 10, 2022 17:45:24 GMT -5
Hell of a play by Story
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Post by reasonabledoubt on Sept 10, 2022 17:55:47 GMT -5
So Maz is going on and on about how much better it's going to be without the shift, while just going on and on about how great that play was by Story. If not for the shift Story is no where to make that amazing play.
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Post by dirtdog on Sept 10, 2022 18:06:22 GMT -5
So Maz is going on and on about how much better it's going to be without the shift, while just going on and on about how great that play was by Story. If not for the shift Story is no where to make that amazing play. Just like it will lead to more offense it will also magnify mediocre/ bad pitching.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,518
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Post by radiohix on Sept 10, 2022 18:38:44 GMT -5
I always laugh when watching a NFL game and the broadcasters are drooling about how a certain QB is throwing the ball from a "crazy" angle. These guys need to watch some baseball cause MLB infielders do routinely that thing like everyday.
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Post by benzinger on Sept 10, 2022 19:01:06 GMT -5
If the Sox don’t sign X, they are dead to me. I would definitely miss him, but I really feel like they signed Story to play SS after this season. Maybe not. Regardless, they need to spend on pitching this Winter. That has to be the big focus.
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Post by dirtdog on Sept 10, 2022 19:28:06 GMT -5
Well, we just used up 5 games worth of offense. Feels good but soak it in.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,637
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Post by cdj on Sept 10, 2022 19:35:14 GMT -5
Being 11-1 on a sub .500 team is pretty impressive
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 10, 2022 21:36:44 GMT -5
I'd go 3/36 on Wacha.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Sept 10, 2022 22:57:41 GMT -5
Ideally a RF in Fenway has range Renfroe didn’t but that’s why he looked like garbage defensively in the 2nd half. One thing that isn’t disputable is that he has one of the best outfield arms in the sport though so he played RF over Doogs. JBJ played RF because he’s one of the best defensive outfielders in the league, and he also has a cannon. I’m not saying Verdugo has even an elite arm, but you quite literally said he had no arm and zero tools. It couldn’t be further from the truth As an aside That’s a damn good baseball player If only the season started on June 1st you’d really have something here. At this pace, he’s due to really catch fire right around November 1st. And, just to correct the record, I conceded he has a good hit tool a while ago. He’s a one tool player when he’s on. The results have been a lot better lately, regardless. I’m pulling for him. And I never said he wasn’t worth $6m. That’s a few months of James Paxton’s rehab. I just said his low cost is basically his best asset. I’d much prefer that he was playing great and getting expensive. You’re moving the goalposts again. Have the results been better lately, or is he declining? You can’t have both.
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ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 11, 2022 2:11:18 GMT -5
If the Sox don’t sign X, they are dead to me. Got a feeling your fandom gonna get tested this winter. Looks like I need to do the infield item in the 2023 Position Players thread, and explain (again) why folks who think that the Sox are unlikely to re-sign Bogaerts are, to use the technical term from cognitive psychology, bonkers,
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ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,962
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 11, 2022 2:45:34 GMT -5
First of all, you need to use the most optimistic metrics to call him a 2 WAR player this season(Bbref has him at 1.1 as of today). But I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt there. I’m not saying he’s old, or expensive. I merely pointed out that he’s regressed in AVG, SLG, OBP and OPS every year in Boston. At some point the focus changes from “he’s young” to “he’s just not that good”. He’s certainly not killing the team with a $6m contract, but he’s a year from being a strong non-tender candidate unless he turns it around in 2023. And I don’t think Verdugo is so hard to replace, either. They found Renfroe on the scrap heap and he outperformed Verdugo in 2021 and 2022. Do you have a reason to prefer bWAR to fWAR or does it just fit your narrative better? Now that fangraphs uses OAA for their defensive rating I don't see any reason at all to prefer bWAR for position players. In any case, OAA hasn't liked his defense this year so his 1.7 fWAR is hardly "the most optimistic metric" you could apply to him; if fangraphs still used DRS he'd probably be above 2 WAR already.
By the eye test for me, Verdugo's defense is average, and by the numbers he's a somewhat above average hitter (107 wRC+). His wRC+ was also 107 last year, and in fact it's 128 over the past three months, which sort of complicates the claim that he's "regressed every year in Boston."
I suppose you don't have any interest in engaging scottysmalls' point about how he overperformed his underlying numbers in 2020; his xwOBA this season is actually 34 points higher than it was in 2020.
Verdugo's defensive decline is real and so fixable it's stupid. Way easier to fix than the successful fixes of Bogaerts and Devers.
His sprint speed, % rank in all MLB, has gone 67.6, 51.7, 36.5. That's a bit misleading because the actual speed has gone 27.5, 27.0, 26.8. Below 27 there are more folks clustered.
Lose some weight, do some training.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 11, 2022 7:03:47 GMT -5
Got a feeling your fandom gonna get tested this winter. Looks like I need to do the infield item in the 2023 Position Players thread, and explain (again) why folks who think that the Sox are unlikely to re-sign Bogaerts are, to use the technical term from cognitive psychology, bonkers,It's a flip of the coin at this point as to whether Bogaerts is back. He might be back simply because Bloom might determine that Devers is too huge a risk to lose in free agency and he doesn't want to lose both and Bogaerts would be the far smaller financial commitment. And if he gets a fair offer that doesn't get dwarfed by somebody else, he probably takes it because Bogaerts genuinely sounds like he loves being a Red Sox. But you can also tell that he was annoyed by their extension offer and it's doubtful that he enjoyed this season much and he probably does question the direction of the organization. Whether dealing Vazquez away or not was the right move, all he sees is they traded his best friend away. You also can't assume that he doesn't get a bigger offer in free agency elsewhere, like the Phillies, Cubs, Cards or elsewhere that hasn't been considered by everybody. You also can't assume that Bloom would be willing to extend his offer to their levels should one be significantly better. So I'll use this opportunity to explain why folks who think it's a slam dunk that Bogaerts is back and can't comprehend the reasonable possibility that he won't be back, the possibility Bogaerts at this point might be much more open to go elsewhere simply because it doesn't jibe with the poster's opinion that Boston is the only great place to play simply because it's the poster's favorite team and everybody else must feel that way, or respect differing reasonable opinions from others, is in a technical term, from cognitive psychology, arrogant.
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jimoh
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Posts: 4,002
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Post by jimoh on Sept 11, 2022 8:42:39 GMT -5
Got a feeling your fandom gonna get tested this winter. Looks like I need to do the infield item in the 2023 Position Players thread, and explain (again) why folks who think that the Sox are unlikely to re-sign Bogaerts are, to use the technical term from cognitive psychology, bonkers, What a surprise to see Eric being overconfident, and unable to imagine people looking at things differently. The Sox are likely but not certain to make a real serious effort to re-sign Bogaerts, but if another team offers him a stupid deal, he will probably take it. I keep saying I would offer him the Story deal, with all the extra clauses, but for $5M more per year. But going up to 30 would not be terrible.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,850
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Post by TearsIn04 on Sept 11, 2022 9:22:18 GMT -5
It's bonkers to think it's bonkers that X may be elsewhere next year. What is there in Bloom's approach that would lead one to think he's going to beat all offers for X?
He may not have to beat all offers because X wants to be here, you say? Don't bet on it. It's possible that some of the shine has gone off being a RS for X. The team has been good in exactly one of the four seasons (only three real seasons, but still) since 2018, the guys he came up with have mostly gone elsewhere, and management hasn't shown him much respect. He has indicated he's unhappy this year.
I expect Bloom to watch the SS market and try to get a bargain with a guy who's market is less than vibrant. That may be X. Or it may be Turner. Or Correa. Or Swanson. It may be none of them. He could go cheapo at SS and spend the dollars at another position.
From what we know via the reporting, Bloom has made no serious effort to sign X. The most expensive time to sign a player is when he hits FA - which is where X will be in a matter of weeks.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,850
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Post by TearsIn04 on Sept 11, 2022 9:29:43 GMT -5
Got a feeling your fandom gonna get tested this winter. It’s been tested the last few winters. Now it is hanging by a thread. Nah, you'll be here. The Red Sox are a way of life. We've all hung with them through an 86-year championship drought, crushing losses, a history of institutional racism, unlikeable teams and management teams (not talking about this management team, more about John Harrington and Dan Duquette) and other maddening torment. I won't be disappointed if they don't sign X. I'll be EXTREMELY F'IN DISAPPOINTED if they don't make an honest effort. So far, it appears they have not.
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Post by manfred on Sept 11, 2022 9:37:43 GMT -5
It’s been tested the last few winters. Now it is hanging by a thread. Nah, you'll be here. The Red Sox are a way of life. We've all hung with them through an 86-year championship drought, crushing losses, a history of institutional racism, unlikeable teams and management teams (not talking about this management team, more about John Harrington and Dan Duquette) and other maddening torment. I won't be disappointed if they don't sign X. I'll be EXTREMELY F'IN DISAPPOINTED if they don't make an honest effort. So far, it appears they have not. Maybe. But the last few years have been the least fun I’ve ever had watching baseball.
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Post by patford on Sept 11, 2022 9:42:52 GMT -5
It’s been tested the last few winters. Now it is hanging by a thread. Nah, you'll be here. The Red Sox are a way of life. We've all hung with them through an 86-year championship drought, crushing losses, a history of institutional racism, unlikeable teams and management teams (not talking about this management team, more about John Harrington and Dan Duquette) and other maddening torment. I won't be disappointed if they don't sign X. I'll be EXTREMELY F'IN DISAPPOINTED if they don't make an honest effort. So far, it appears they have not. He's got three years left on his deal at 20 million per year. He's about to turn 30 and Mayer is probably no more than three years away. Assuming he opts out what do you propose they offer him? BTW. I totally do not buy any comment by a player that they want to stay. That is nothing more than a negotiating tactic. What do people expect a player to say?
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,850
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Post by TearsIn04 on Sept 11, 2022 9:59:46 GMT -5
Nah, you'll be here. The Red Sox are a way of life. We've all hung with them through an 86-year championship drought, crushing losses, a history of institutional racism, unlikeable teams and management teams (not talking about this management team, more about John Harrington and Dan Duquette) and other maddening torment. I won't be disappointed if they don't sign X. I'll be EXTREMELY F'IN DISAPPOINTED if they don't make an honest effort. So far, it appears they have not. He's got three years left on his deal at 20 million per year. He's about to turn 30 and Mayer is probably no more than three years away. Assuming he opts out what do you propose they offer him? BTW. I totally do not buy any comment by a player that they want to stay. That is nothing more than a negotiating tactic. What do people expect a player to say? I agree it's always best for a player to say the pledge of allegiance to his current team. There's not a lot of gain in saying, "The place sucks and I can't wait to be out of here." They nearly always go for the highest offer once they reach FA. I've thought all along six years and $150M is fair. I wish Bloom had offered him that last winter. He may have taken it. There's no incentive for him to not test the market now that he's at the front door of market. They could sweeten the pot by front-loading the money, giving him an opt-out after four years and putting a "C" on his uni. If someone offers him $30M a year and the RS let him walk, I'll be happy with their decision, but still PO'ed that they didn't get serious a year earlier.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 11, 2022 10:34:46 GMT -5
I'll be done with Bloom if you don't resign Bogaerts, not the Red Sox. Moving on is a perfectly fine option, you just do it at the deadline for a big return, not a 4th round comp pick. Nevermind staying over so it's not a 2nd.
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