SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
9/9-9/11 Red Sox @ Orioles Series Thread
|
Post by scottysmalls on Sept 11, 2022 10:41:09 GMT -5
Nah, you'll be here. The Red Sox are a way of life. We've all hung with them through an 86-year championship drought, crushing losses, a history of institutional racism, unlikeable teams and management teams (not talking about this management team, more about John Harrington and Dan Duquette) and other maddening torment. I won't be disappointed if they don't sign X. I'll be EXTREMELY F'IN DISAPPOINTED if they don't make an honest effort. So far, it appears they have not. Maybe. But the last few years have been the least fun I’ve ever had watching baseball. Different strokes I guess but 2021 was my favorite non World Series season to watch ever, though I was a little young for 2003.
|
|
|
Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Sept 11, 2022 10:55:03 GMT -5
I'll be done with Bloom if you don't resign Bogaerts, not the Red Sox. Moving on is a perfectly fine option, you just do it at the deadline for a big return, not a 4th round comp pick. Nevermind staying over so it's not a 2nd. Xander wasn't waiving his NTC, and even if he did, you weren't getting an enormous return for half a season of him.
|
|
|
Post by benzinger on Sept 11, 2022 11:10:58 GMT -5
If only the season started on June 1st you’d really have something here. At this pace, he’s due to really catch fire right around November 1st. And, just to correct the record, I conceded he has a good hit tool a while ago. He’s a one tool player when he’s on. The results have been a lot better lately, regardless. I’m pulling for him. And I never said he wasn’t worth $6m. That’s a few months of James Paxton’s rehab. I just said his low cost is basically his best asset. I’d much prefer that he was playing great and getting expensive. You’re moving the goalposts again. Have the results been better lately, or is he declining? You can’t have both. It’s not complicated. He has declined in BA, OBP, SLG & OPS every year with the Sox. He’s also played better as of late. Nobody has told me how I’ve “moved the goalposts” at all here.
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Sept 11, 2022 11:12:21 GMT -5
Got a feeling your fandom gonna get tested this winter. Looks like I need to do the infield item in the 2023 Position Players thread, and explain (again) why folks who think that the Sox are unlikely to re-sign Bogaerts are, to use the technical term from cognitive psychology, bonkers,So by this logic, if Bloom doesn't sign Bogaerts, whom would he have to sign to not also be "bonkers"?
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 11, 2022 11:26:50 GMT -5
I'll be done with Bloom if you don't resign Bogaerts, not the Red Sox. Moving on is a perfectly fine option, you just do it at the deadline for a big return, not a 4th round comp pick. Nevermind staying over so it's not a 2nd. Xander wasn't waiving his NTC, and even if he did, you weren't getting an enormous return for half a season of him. Got proof to back that claim up? Rather rare for a player with a no trade clause to veto a deal to a contender, especially because it means no comp pick which is huge. He'd would have gotten a return better than any trade not involving Betts he’s made. Quick guess it's double what Benintendi, Machini and Vazquez cost if not more. That's so much more than a 4th round pick! We'll never truly know because they didn't shop him and if you do that and just let him walk, that a gross mismanagement of your assets.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 11, 2022 11:37:16 GMT -5
Nah, you'll be here. The Red Sox are a way of life. We've all hung with them through an 86-year championship drought, crushing losses, a history of institutional racism, unlikeable teams and management teams (not talking about this management team, more about John Harrington and Dan Duquette) and other maddening torment. I won't be disappointed if they don't sign X. I'll be EXTREMELY F'IN DISAPPOINTED if they don't make an honest effort. So far, it appears they have not. Maybe. But the last few years have been the least fun I’ve ever had watching baseball. You must have missed the Butch Hobson managerial era or the Bobby Valentine season.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Sept 11, 2022 11:46:56 GMT -5
Maybe. But the last few years have been the least fun I’ve ever had watching baseball. You must have missed the Butch Hobson managerial era or the Bobby Valentine season. Brief. The Bobby V year was brutal, but they had Papi and Pedey and won the WS the next year. Maybe if they win the WS next year I’ll revise.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Sept 11, 2022 11:53:01 GMT -5
Xander wasn't waiving his NTC, and even if he did, you weren't getting an enormous return for half a season of him. Got proof to back that claim up? Rather rare for a player with a no trade clause to veto a deal to a contender, especially because it means no comp pick which is huge. He'd would have gotten a return better than any trade not involving Betts he’s made. Quick guess it's double what Benintendi, Machini and Vazquez cost if not more. That's so much more than a 4th round pick! We'll never truly know because they didn't shop him and if you do that and just let him walk, that a gross mismanagement of your assets. Once again, this argument might make sense if you place literally no value whatsoever on the team's playoff chances this season, which were at about 30% at the trade deadline. Maybe you are especially willing to surrender in the face of slightly unfavorable odds, but it's very rare for a major league team in that position to do so.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 11, 2022 12:27:28 GMT -5
You must have missed the Butch Hobson managerial era or the Bobby Valentine season. Brief. The Bobby V year was brutal, but they had Papi and Pedey and won the WS the next year. Maybe if they win the WS next year I’ll revise. Did you enjoy 3 straight losing seasons from 1992 - 1994?
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 11, 2022 12:36:20 GMT -5
Got proof to back that claim up? Rather rare for a player with a no trade clause to veto a deal to a contender, especially because it means no comp pick which is huge. He'd would have gotten a return better than any trade not involving Betts he’s made. Quick guess it's double what Benintendi, Machini and Vazquez cost if not more. That's so much more than a 4th round pick! We'll never truly know because they didn't shop him and if you do that and just let him walk, that a gross mismanagement of your assets. Once again, this argument might make sense if you place literally no value whatsoever on the team's playoff chances this season, which were at about 30% at the trade deadline. Maybe you are especially willing to surrender in the face of slightly unfavorable odds, but it's very rare for a major league team in that position to do so. The 30% odds thing seems silly and arbitrary to me. This team wasn't winning anything and you have to know what you're looking at. As a leader you have to make the decision. Is this team good enough or not? Are they simply playing badly or is that what they are? Seemed pretty obvious to me they didnt have the goods and if that's the case you punt. You get something of value for X if you don't think that you're likely making the playoffs and if you think there's a pretty decent shot that the player isnt coming back. I know one thing. If X walks away and all they got was a 4th round pick (it better be one helluva pick), all so they can try to save a season that really wasn't worth saving, then I'll be pretty annoyed. I'm sure as hell not going to look back fondly on the 2022 season. That 30% or whatever chance sure as hell wasn't worth it. And this isnt second guessing. It was obvious then. I mean is anybody really shocked that the team plunged out of contention?
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Sept 11, 2022 12:51:43 GMT -5
Once again, this argument might make sense if you place literally no value whatsoever on the team's playoff chances this season, which were at about 30% at the trade deadline. Maybe you are especially willing to surrender in the face of slightly unfavorable odds, but it's very rare for a major league team in that position to do so. The 30% odds thing seems silly and arbitrary to me. This team wasn't winning anything and you have to know what you're looking at. As a leader you have to make the decision. Is this team good enough or not? Are they simply playing badly or is that what they are? Seemed pretty obvious to me they didnt have the goods and if that's the case you punt. You get something of value for X if you don't think that you're likely making the playoffs and if you think there's a pretty decent shot that the player isnt coming back. I know one thing. If X walks away and all they got was a 4th round pick (it better be one helluva pick), all so they can try to save a season that really wasn't worth saving, then I'll be pretty annoyed. I'm sure as hell not going to look back fondly on the 2022 season. That 30% or whatever chance sure as hell wasn't worth it. And this isnt second guessing. It was obvious then. I mean is anybody really shocked that the team plunged out of contention? I don't really want to argue whether or not it was possible to see into the future as of August 1st. Maybe it was. Regardless, my point is that teams in the sort of position very rarely punt in the way you think they should have. And there's lots of reasons for them not to - this board notwithstanding, fans generally tend not to feel great about giving up on the season when the team is only a couple of games out of a playoff spot; and it would also mean telling the entire organization, from players to coaches to staff, that all the hard work they've put into the season had to be thrown in the crapper because the team "just doesn't have it." Which strikes me as a difficult sell.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Sept 11, 2022 12:54:40 GMT -5
Brief. The Bobby V year was brutal, but they had Papi and Pedey and won the WS the next year. Maybe if they win the WS next year I’ll revise. Did you enjoy 3 straight losing seasons from 1992 - 1994? I was in college, so I don’t remember those years.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 11, 2022 12:58:23 GMT -5
Did you enjoy 3 straight losing seasons from 1992 - 1994? I was in college, so I don’t remember those years. I was in college those years too, but unfortunately I do remember those Sox seasons. Lol. Not fun.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Sept 11, 2022 13:02:04 GMT -5
I was in college, so I don’t remember those years. I was in college those years too, but unfortunately I do remember those Sox seasons. Lol. Not fun. I’m not from Boston, so only with MLB have I been able to watch most games. So some of those awful seasons were pretty abstract. Sports page, SportsCenter, occasionally a national game. But now I get to endure it daily.
|
|
|
Post by Soxfansince1971 on Sept 11, 2022 13:06:25 GMT -5
I was in college those years too, but unfortunately I do remember those Sox seasons. Lol. Not fun. I’m not from Boston, so only with MLB have I been able to watch most games. So some of those awful seasons were pretty abstract. Sports page, SportsCenter, occasionally a national game. But now I get to endure it daily. Manfred, as a West Coast guy at least the games start and end early for you…..
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Sept 11, 2022 13:08:31 GMT -5
I’m not from Boston, so only with MLB have I been able to watch most games. So some of those awful seasons were pretty abstract. Sports page, SportsCenter, occasionally a national game. But now I get to endure it daily. Manfred, as a West Coast guy at least the games start and end early for you….. It is so awesome. I don’t know how I did it on the East coast, especially as a little kid.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Sept 11, 2022 13:15:48 GMT -5
Manfred, as a West Coast guy at least the games start and end early for you….. It is so awesome. I don’t know how I did it on the East coast, especially as a little kid. The games were half an hour shorter back then, for one thing.
|
|
|
Post by scottysmalls on Sept 11, 2022 13:18:39 GMT -5
Maybe. But the last few years have been the least fun I’ve ever had watching baseball. Different strokes I guess but 2021 was my favorite non World Series season to watch ever, though I was a little young for 2003. While the Patriots disappoint me I decided to rank my favorite seasons since '04: 1. 2004 2. 2018 3. 2013 4. 2007 5. 2021 6. 2008 7. 2016 8. 2005 9. 2017 10. 2010 11. 2006 12. 2022 13. 2011 14. 2015 15. 2014 16. 2020 (I think if it wasn't shortened I'd have this one 12th or 13th) 17. 2012 (Bobby V misery) 18. 2009 (Yankees)
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 11, 2022 13:21:40 GMT -5
Different strokes I guess but 2021 was my favorite non World Series season to watch ever, though I was a little young for 2003. While the Patriots disappoint me I decided to rank my favorite seasons since '04: 1. 2004 2. 2018 3. 2013 4. 2007 5. 2021 6. 2008 7. 2016 8. 2005 9. 2017 10. 2010 11. 2006 12. 2022 13. 2011 14. 2015 15. 2014 16. 2020 (I think if it wasn't shortened I'd have this one 12th or 13th) 17. 2012 (Bobby V misery) 18. 2009 (Yankees) Sounds about right to me.
|
|
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,637
|
Post by cdj on Sept 11, 2022 13:26:32 GMT -5
Xander doesn’t get that guy home a month ago, very pleased with this late hot stretch
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Sept 11, 2022 13:39:13 GMT -5
Story will be worth his contract if he can just provide average offense, which he's done this season, but the 30% K rate is mildly worrying.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Sept 11, 2022 14:32:44 GMT -5
The game is half over and the Red Sox are ahead, in case anyone was wondering...
ADD: Oh, football season started, didn't it? I guess that's where everyone went...
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Sept 11, 2022 14:59:48 GMT -5
Really can't complain about the value Rich Hill has given them for $5 million and I wouldn't mind if they brought him back in the same role again.
His FIPs the last five seasons:
3.97 4.10 3.99 4.34 4.04
And his ERA has tended to overperform his FIP. I think the higher ERA this year is more due to somewhat bad luck than poor performance.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Sept 11, 2022 15:05:50 GMT -5
Really can't complain about the value Rich Hill has given them for $5 million and I wouldn't mind if they brought him back in the same role again.
His FIPs the last five seasons:
3.97 4.10 3.99 4.34 4.04
And his ERA has tended to overperform his FIP. I think the higher ERA this year is more due to somewhat bad luck than poor performance.
If he is willing to relieve some, I’d bring him back. It is stunning to watch him. Just works fast, throws nothing straight. 6 shutout innings against a good team. Mad respect.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Sept 11, 2022 15:10:55 GMT -5
Yeah, agreed re: his willingness to relieve. Between Sale, Pivetta, Whitlock, Bello, Crawford, and certainly at least one other FA (Paxton or otherwise), hopefully the rotation would be healthy and effective enough at least some of the dang time for it to not have room for him.
|
|
|