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League Championship Series
TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,835
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Post by TearsIn04 on Oct 23, 2022 11:14:46 GMT -5
I'm really rooting against the Phillies more than any other team. I don't care about the Dombrowski angle, but I hate the fact the best team in baseball that should be honored is the 3rd best non-division winner? Just awful. I really want the Padres because it'll be interesting to me if Tatis gets a ring and be apart of the parade. This is where I am, too. But I'd also lump the Pads, who finished 22 games behind the LAD, in with the Phils. I'd root for the Astros over either one. I'm a long-time Patriots fan who didn't walk away after Spygate and am repulsed by the head coach's unwillingness to take responsibility, so I have a proven record of being able to root for cheaters. Hypocrisy check: I, of course, rooted passionately for the Red Sox in the 1998 PS. They finished 22 games out of first place, same as this year's Pads.
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Post by patford on Oct 23, 2022 11:23:28 GMT -5
You can't draw this one up any better for those whiners. Complaining last game about a Bregman hit that was a HR in 25/30 parks being weaker than the Judge out that was a HR in just Yankee Stadium, only for McCormick to then get the Astros on the board tonight with a HR that only makes it out in Yankee Stadium. And Cole comes up clutch again in the playoffs. The excuses aren't done lol. "Which one?" LMAO. What a clown.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 23, 2022 11:42:01 GMT -5
I'm really rooting against the Phillies more than any other team. I don't care about the Dombrowski angle, but I hate the fact the best team in baseball that should be honored is the 3rd best non-division winner? Just awful. I really want the Padres because it'll be interesting to me if Tatis gets a ring and be apart of the parade. This is where I am, too. But I'd also lump the Pads, who finished 22 games behind the LAD, in with the Phils. I'd root for the Astros over either one. I'm a long-time Patriots fan who didn't walk away after Spygate and am repulsed by the head coach's unwillingness to take responsibility, so I have a proven record of being able to root for cheaters. Hypocrisy check: I, of course, rooted passionately for the Red Sox in the 1998 PS. They finished 22 games out of first place, same as this year's Pads. That's a fair point too. I only liked the 2nd WC because of the stupidity of the 1-game play-in. The fact they were 22 games behind the Dodgers and then beat them as the 2nd WC is weak. I like the 1 WC as a mulligan because sometimes you just get stuck behind a team that wins 105 games. The 2nd is really pushing it, but the 3rd is just ridiculous. The Phillies winning it makes it justifiable, but I'd argue it makes the sport's playoffs more of a joke. I'm more so rooting for the Astros, cheating aside. It's absolutely unconscionable for any team to cheat, unless it's the Patriots. Then I'd argue it's just smart football.
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Post by manfred on Oct 23, 2022 11:47:03 GMT -5
I don’t care about the regular season records. I am rooting for the Phils. But were it not for Machado, I could support the Pads. I like seeing teams rewarded for going all in. The Phils were good for baseball… off to a bad start, they didn’t fold, but instead were buyers. If teams see that as worth it, more teams will fight to the finish. I like that.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Oct 23, 2022 11:53:28 GMT -5
I'm really rooting against the Phillies more than any other team. I don't care about the Dombrowski angle, but I hate the fact the best team in baseball that should be honored is the 3rd best non-division winner? Just awful. I really want the Padres because it'll be interesting to me if Tatis gets a ring and be apart of the parade. This is where I am, too. But I'd also lump the Pads, who finished 22 games behind the LAD, in with the Phils. I'd root for the Astros over either one. I'm a long-time Patriots fan who didn't walk away after Spygate and am repulsed by the head coach's unwillingness to take responsibility, so I have a proven record of being able to root for cheaters. Hypocrisy check: I, of course, rooted passionately for the Red Sox in the 1998 PS. They finished 22 games out of first place, same as this year's Pads. I can completely understand these posts and the WC and the dilution of the meaning of the regular season, but I just don't see how a team that makes the playoffs can be considered not honorable. The way the game is set up, the travel, the injuries, the bad luck...etc...etc...makes it a real test. The fact that more teams stay in it until the deadline, in and of itself, makes it harder, IMO. it just seems to me more of a challenge to make the playoffs now than it has ever been. So rewarding more teams to have a chance to win the World Series seems like a logical thing. At that point, it becomes a crapshoot, sure, but why hold a teams regular season record as a crown achievement. Now, we all know they did it for money. So that has a cheapening effect, but not watching players like Schwarber, Harper, Hoskins on the Phillies, are we sure there is some issue here ? We only have limited amount to time to watch these guys perform on this stage. I would have rather had this seeding the last 10 years if it meant seeing Mike Trout play in the playoffs. That is where the excitement is for me.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,835
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Post by TearsIn04 on Oct 23, 2022 11:55:49 GMT -5
I don’t care about the regular season records. I am rooting for the Phils. But were it not for Machado, I could support the Pads. I like seeing teams rewarded for going all in. The Phils were good for baseball… off to a bad start, they didn’t fold, but instead were buyers. If teams see that as worth it, more teams will fight to the finish. I like that. You don't care about regular season records? You once said the 2021 Red Sox team that Chaim Bloom assembled was a failure because of the second-place finish in the division. (Just having fun with you!)
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Oct 23, 2022 12:04:41 GMT -5
I don’t care about the regular season records. I am rooting for the Phils. But were it not for Machado, I could support the Pads. I like seeing teams rewarded for going all in. The Phils were good for baseball… off to a bad start, they didn’t fold, but instead were buyers. If teams see that as worth it, more teams will fight to the finish. I like that. right...and maybe it could be viewed as having to play, minimum, 173+ games and be the last guy standing to be crowned the best team in baseball. It is a big change from how we all thought of it in the past, but there is a new reality to all professional leagues
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Post by manfred on Oct 23, 2022 12:06:39 GMT -5
I don’t care about the regular season records. I am rooting for the Phils. But were it not for Machado, I could support the Pads. I like seeing teams rewarded for going all in. The Phils were good for baseball… off to a bad start, they didn’t fold, but instead were buyers. If teams see that as worth it, more teams will fight to the finish. I like that. You don't care about regular season records? You once said the 2021 Red Sox team that Chaim Bloom assembled was a failure because of the second-place finish in the division. (Just having fun with you!) I don’t care once the postseason starts. If that team won the WS, I would remember the regular season record. I should say I do care a bit… I just mean I’m not married to a traditional view that only teams that kill it in the regular season make valid champions. I love an underdog and a comeback story.
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Post by incandenza on Oct 23, 2022 12:06:59 GMT -5
I don’t care about the regular season records. I am rooting for the Phils. But were it not for Machado, I could support the Pads. I like seeing teams rewarded for going all in. The Phils were good for baseball… off to a bad start, they didn’t fold, but instead were buyers. If teams see that as worth it, more teams will fight to the finish. I like that. A lot of people here thought the Red Sox should have waved the white flag at the trade deadline because even if they made the playoffs they had a minuscule chance of winning the World Series - 0.7%, per fangraphs.
Well the Phillies were at 1.9%. Heck, the Guardians were at 0.5%. I wonder if the people who thought the Red Sox should have traded Eovaldi and JDM for whatever 35 FV prospects they could get think the Phillies and Guardians should have been sellers at the deadline?
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Post by manfred on Oct 23, 2022 12:10:18 GMT -5
I don’t care about the regular season records. I am rooting for the Phils. But were it not for Machado, I could support the Pads. I like seeing teams rewarded for going all in. The Phils were good for baseball… off to a bad start, they didn’t fold, but instead were buyers. If teams see that as worth it, more teams will fight to the finish. I like that. A lot of people here thought the Red Sox should have waved the white flag at the trade deadline because even if they made the playoffs they had a minuscule chance of winning the World Series - 0.7%, per fangraphs.
Well the Phillies were at 1.9%. Heck, the Guardians were at 0.5%. I wonder if the people who thought the Red Sox should have traded Eovaldi and JDM for whatever 35 FV prospects they could get think the Phillies and Guardians should have been sellers at the deadline?
If they’d gone in, I’d have supported it. But it would have required pain. Would people like that? If they weren’t in, then they should have been out. I know it isn’t your point, but this Phillies team is much better than the Sox, especially in a short series when they can ride Nola and Wheeler. As for the Guardians, they ended up going as far as they could, so those odds were proven true. They just didn’t have the sticks. As it is, it looks pretty good for the odds-makers… hard to see the ‘stros not gassing up the duckboats (whatever the Houston equivalent nay be).
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Oct 23, 2022 12:12:31 GMT -5
My beef with DD, is he was only too happy to gut our system. I could of told him to hold on to Devers . The year we won it he made 2 key trades I’ll give him that. I still don’t know why he had to sign Sale. That year he was battling injuries. Why didn’t he approach Devers right away to do like what Tampa did to Franco. After he made all these trades with our prospects , it was like the minor league system just went dark. What I like about our prospects we graduate them to help our team but it should be fluid . We weren’t doing a better job with pitching too. What All Stars or even every day MLB players did he trade away when "gutting" the system other than Margot? This is a repeated strawman that just won't die. Meanwhile, 3 Division titles and a World Series. His biggest error was resigning Sale when it was obvious he was injured. This infuriated ownership, especially when Cole and others was going to be in the same free agent class. Dombrowski does have a bad habit of rewarding players for past performance. (See: Cabrera, Miguel). With regard to Price, there was pretty much a resigned acquiescence on this board when he did it. It was theorized that it was two years too long, but we all knew this team needed an "ace" and Price was the ace at the top of the market. But the org under Dombrowski did a good job drafting and acquiring international free agents, many of whom became top 10 Sox prospects, including Casas, Bello, Rafaela, Mata, Paulino, Groom, Dalbec, Duran, Houck, Crawford and Ward. I agree it was stupid to extend Sale (and Pierce - even though it was just $6M) when he did, but I don't think it should've been a firing offense. But, yes, I have every confidence that Chaim will turn this into an MLB-winning player development machine. I also have every confidence that if the Sox are not a playoff team in 2023, he will be fired. To your last point, patience by ownership can also be its own reward. Brian Sabean gave out "thank you" contracts to big contributors to the Giants' championships, like Aubrey Huff and (old friend) Marco Scutaro, and their ownership gave him enough rope climb back to the top after subpar 2011 and 2013 seasons. Obviously every team has a different set of circumstances but Sabean won three times in five years with three different aces and three different closers (although Romo emerged at the end of '12 and lasted through '14).
Not saying DD would've produced another ring already if he had stayed but he had a long run in Detroit and '18 was the culmination of a strong 3-year run. If the Phillies win one more game, he'll be headed to the WS with his 4th different franchise, which would have to be a record. It definitely would've been different if he had stayed. Would he have truly gutted the farm system by now? Perhaps, but if that would've brought another parade, you raise the flag and hire a Chaim clone after that.
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Post by incandenza on Oct 23, 2022 12:18:55 GMT -5
A lot of people here thought the Red Sox should have waved the white flag at the trade deadline because even if they made the playoffs they had a minuscule chance of winning the World Series - 0.7%, per fangraphs.
Well the Phillies were at 1.9%. Heck, the Guardians were at 0.5%. I wonder if the people who thought the Red Sox should have traded Eovaldi and JDM for whatever 35 FV prospects they could get think the Phillies and Guardians should have been sellers at the deadline?
If they’d gone in, I’d have supported it. But it would have required pain. Would people like that? If they weren’t in, then they should have been out. I know it isn’t your point, but this Phillies team is much better than the Sox, especially in a short series when they can ride Nola and Wheeler. As for the Guardians, they ended up going as far as they could, so those odds were proven true. They just didn’t have the sticks. As it is, it looks pretty good for the odds-makers… hard to see the ‘stros not gassing up the duckboats (whatever the Houston equivalent nay be). See, here I was trying to agree with you, and then you go and respond with four paragraphs and I disagree with every one of them.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,835
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Post by TearsIn04 on Oct 23, 2022 12:23:51 GMT -5
I don’t care about the regular season records. I am rooting for the Phils. But were it not for Machado, I could support the Pads. I like seeing teams rewarded for going all in. The Phils were good for baseball… off to a bad start, they didn’t fold, but instead were buyers. If teams see that as worth it, more teams will fight to the finish. I like that. A lot of people here thought the Red Sox should have waved the white flag at the trade deadline because even if they made the playoffs they had a minuscule chance of winning the World Series - 0.7%, per fangraphs.
Well the Phillies were at 1.9%. Heck, the Guardians were at 0.5%. I wonder if the people who thought the Red Sox should have traded Eovaldi and JDM for whatever 35 FV prospects they could get think the Phillies and Guardians should have been sellers at the deadline?
You're ignoring a major elephant in the room, though. The Red Sox ended up over the LTT. That has real consequences. Different decisions at the deadline would mean better chances of success in the future. I can't imagine an argument that a GM who went over the LTT and finished last did a good job. Betting on their 1.9 percent chance to win the WS might work out for the Phillies (though I doubt they get by the Astros). But the numbers tell us that for every two times it works out for a team with those odds, there will be 98 times when it doesn't. So yes, I'd say that a team facing those odds should not go all in, just as a gambler should cut his losses, rather than bet on those odds. Drunk drivers sometimes make it home safely without a crash or handcuffs. That doesn't make it a good decision.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Oct 23, 2022 12:44:04 GMT -5
This is where I am, too. But I'd also lump the Pads, who finished 22 games behind the LAD, in with the Phils. I'd root for the Astros over either one. I'm a long-time Patriots fan who didn't walk away after Spygate and am repulsed by the head coach's unwillingness to take responsibility, so I have a proven record of being able to root for cheaters. Hypocrisy check: I, of course, rooted passionately for the Red Sox in the 1998 PS. They finished 22 games out of first place, same as this year's Pads. I can completely understand these posts and the WC and the dilution of the meaning of the regular season, but I just don't see how a team that makes the playoffs can be considered not honorable. The way the game is set up, the travel, the injuries, the bad luck...etc...etc...makes it a real test. The fact that more teams stay in it until the deadline, in and of itself, makes it harder, IMO. it just seems to me more of a challenge to make the playoffs now than it has ever been. So rewarding more teams to have a chance to win the World Series seems like a logical thing. At that point, it becomes a crapshoot, sure, but why hold a teams regular season record as a crown achievement. Now, we all know they did it for money. So that has a cheapening effect, but not watching players like Schwarber, Harper, Hoskins on the Phillies, are we sure there is some issue here ? We only have limited amount to time to watch these guys perform on this stage. I would have rather had this seeding the last 10 years if it meant seeing Mike Trout play in the playoffs. That is where the excitement is for me. What I appreciate most about the expanded playoffs (although I preferred the play-in game format) is that without it you'd have the MFYs, Astros, and Dodgers in the final 4 every single year. I just threw up in my mouth just by typing that. If you like the same handful of teams winning over and over, maybe you should follow Euro soccer. The regular season establishes seeding; after that, you've got to perform when it's "win or go home." That's what makes it fun for me. Hell, none of the top seeds who bowed out even had major injuries to blame. People say you can't measure "clutchness" (clutchitude? clutchosity?) but it's sure fun to watch.
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Post by incandenza on Oct 23, 2022 12:46:55 GMT -5
A lot of people here thought the Red Sox should have waved the white flag at the trade deadline because even if they made the playoffs they had a minuscule chance of winning the World Series - 0.7%, per fangraphs.
Well the Phillies were at 1.9%. Heck, the Guardians were at 0.5%. I wonder if the people who thought the Red Sox should have traded Eovaldi and JDM for whatever 35 FV prospects they could get think the Phillies and Guardians should have been sellers at the deadline?
You're ignoring a major elephant in the room, though. The Red Sox ended up over the LTT. That has real consequences. Different decisions at the deadline would mean better chances of success in the future. I can't imagine an argument that a GM who went over the LTT and finished last did a good job. Betting on their 1.9 percent chance to win the WS might work out for the Phillies (though I doubt they get by the Astros). But the numbers tell us that for every two times it works out for a team with those odds, there will be 98 times when it doesn't. So yes, I'd say that a team facing those odds should not go all in, just as a gambler should cut his losses, rather than bet on those odds. Drunk drivers sometimes make it home safely without a crash or handcuffs. That doesn't make it a good decision. I'm not ignoring the luxury tax issue; that's just separate from what I'm talking about, which is the logic of when it makes sense to be a seller in terms of playoff odds. If you think they should have been sellers simply to get under the tax limit you can make that case.
And I didn't say that a team facing long odds should go all in. I think they should hedge their bets and take a moderate approach as the Red Sox did (and as the Guardians, Orioles, and Giants did, incidentally - all teams in roughly the Red Sox' position - though I think the Red Sox did the best job out of any of them at the trade deadline).
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Post by maxwellsdemon on Oct 23, 2022 13:11:49 GMT -5
Starting from the first round of the playoffs a WC team needs to go 13 and 9 (.591) to win it all. It takes 16 wins to get the Stanley Cup (I actually saw my first pro championship when the Devils swept away the Pistons in '94 playing in their arena of prophetically Exit 16W). I am always in favor of having more teams in the running as some start with injuries that need to be overcome or have young players who grow as the season progresses. It's not a lot of fun watching the same teams over and over (although growing up with Bill Russell's Celtics and of course Belichick/Brady Pats was fun for me, but not a whole lot of folks with different rooting interest).
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Post by manfred on Oct 23, 2022 13:24:46 GMT -5
If they’d gone in, I’d have supported it. But it would have required pain. Would people like that? If they weren’t in, then they should have been out. I know it isn’t your point, but this Phillies team is much better than the Sox, especially in a short series when they can ride Nola and Wheeler. As for the Guardians, they ended up going as far as they could, so those odds were proven true. They just didn’t have the sticks. As it is, it looks pretty good for the odds-makers… hard to see the ‘stros not gassing up the duckboats (whatever the Houston equivalent nay be). See, here I was trying to agree with you, and then you go and respond with four paragraphs and I disagree with every one of them.
And nature heals itself… 🤣
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,924
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Post by ericmvan on Oct 23, 2022 13:58:01 GMT -5
I've been busy watching every single game of this tremendous post-season (except the first Phillies / Cardinals WC game, the results of which convinced me to not miss another game). That's the only reason I haven't posted about any of it. And by "watching" I mean scoring every pitch (with a few exceptions). You can watch four games in a day (and also do trivial things like eating and sleeping) by fast-forwarding between pitches in a game or two.
An observation: I was severely pissed that Abreu lost the 1-hitter with one out to go, because that would have been the third one-hitter of the post-season, and that's never happened before.
As it is, though, the Padres became the first team to throw a one-hitter and get one-hit in the same post-season. Musgrove, Suarez, and Hader one-hit the Mets to win their W/C series, and then Wheeler, Dominguez, and Alvarafo one-hit the Padres in game 1 of the NLCS. In both games the sole hit came in the 5th and was by the first baseman (Alonso, Myers).
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 23, 2022 14:05:17 GMT -5
Rooting more against the Phillies than the Yankees is insane.
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Post by grandsalami on Oct 23, 2022 15:37:50 GMT -5
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Post by manfred on Oct 23, 2022 15:41:06 GMT -5
And reminding a collapsing team about their worst collapse should… help?
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,835
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Post by TearsIn04 on Oct 23, 2022 15:48:10 GMT -5
Do I understand this correctly? Ortiz is trying to rally the MFY to get off the canvas?
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Post by greenmonster on Oct 23, 2022 16:04:01 GMT -5
Do I understand this correctly? Ortiz is trying to rally the MFY to get off the canvas? Thats the way I'm reading it
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Post by benzinger on Oct 23, 2022 16:24:19 GMT -5
Had the Sox retained Schwarber, I think he would have been my favorite guy on this year’s team. It’s a shame that they let him walk. He’s a winner and they need MORE guys like him.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Oct 23, 2022 16:34:43 GMT -5
The umps must have non-refundable plane tickets to SD, keeping the game going like this.
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