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2022-2023 National Rankings (offseason)
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Post by awalkinthepark on Feb 22, 2023 10:57:49 GMT -5
Bleis at 20 is absolutely nuts but hey I'm not complaining.
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Post by scottysmalls on Feb 22, 2023 11:27:10 GMT -5
Worth noting they ranked Senga, which I guess means they just don't think Yoshida is even a 50 FV (or they forgot about him). Strange how the scouting and the projections are so far apart on this guy. I wonder if they have an age cut off? Also did they rank Suzuki last year?
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Post by alan on Feb 22, 2023 11:35:02 GMT -5
Worth noting they ranked Senga, which I guess means they just don't think Yoshida is even a 50 FV (or they forgot about him). Strange how the scouting and the projections are so far apart on this guy. They have him at 45+ FV on the International board before
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Post by incandenza on Feb 22, 2023 11:39:34 GMT -5
Worth noting they ranked Senga, which I guess means they just don't think Yoshida is even a 50 FV (or they forgot about him). Strange how the scouting and the projections are so far apart on this guy. They have him at 45+ FV on the International board before Is there any remotely reasonable justification for implying that Yoshida is less likely to have a successful major league career than Nick Yorke?
Personally I wouldn't list mid-career international players on prospect lists at all, but if you're going to do it at least make it plausible.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 22, 2023 11:42:17 GMT -5
They have him at 45+ FV on the International board before Is there any remotely reasonable justification for implying that Yoshida is less likely to have a successful major league career than Nick Yorke? Personally I wouldn't list mid-career international players on prospect lists at all, but if you're going to do it at least make it plausible.
Yes. There are a number of international evaluators who didn't love Yoshida. Don't you recall the article, I think written by Kiley, basically saying 9 of 10 international guys crushed the signing? If you dismiss his bad 2022 as injury-based, high Longenhagen does, it's not crazy.
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Post by incandenza on Feb 22, 2023 11:56:44 GMT -5
Is there any remotely reasonable justification for implying that Yoshida is less likely to have a successful major league career than Nick Yorke? Personally I wouldn't list mid-career international players on prospect lists at all, but if you're going to do it at least make it plausible.
Yes. There are a number of international evaluators who didn't love Yoshida. Don't you recall the article, I think written by Kiley, basically saying 9 of 10 international guys crushed the signing? If you dismiss his bad 2022 as injury-based, high Longenhagen does, it's not crazy. Really? On this site Yorke's floor is "org high minors contributor." Lots of top-100 guys don't make it as major leaguers at all, and while I know lots of people think the Red Sox paid too much for Yoshida, do they actually think he won't at least be a viable major leaguer? If Yoshida were available on a rookie contract, with all the cost-controllable years that entails, would anyone really choose Yorke over him?
If views of Yoshida are that negative it makes me a lot less confident in the likelihood of his succeeding here. And it would also be a little mysterious, considering his track record in Japan and what all the projections say.
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Post by Foulke_In_Athol on Feb 22, 2023 12:05:40 GMT -5
This is probably not news to anyone on this site and it's not just based on fangraphs... But. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it anyway.
We have something really, really special in Bleis. It's not just the positives and rave reports, it's that he seems to have so few negatives. I think depending on things (obviously) he could surpass Mayer, without meaning Mayer really fell off.
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Post by oldfaithful2019 on Feb 22, 2023 14:07:13 GMT -5
Is there any remotely reasonable justification for implying that Yoshida is less likely to have a successful major league career than Nick Yorke? Personally I wouldn't list mid-career international players on prospect lists at all, but if you're going to do it at least make it plausible.
Yes. There are a number of international evaluators who didn't love Yoshida. Don't you recall the article, I think written by Kiley, basically saying 9 of 10 international guys crushed the signing? If you dismiss his bad 2022 as injury-based, high Longenhagen does, it's not crazy. When I talk about Bloom being willing to take risks, Yoshida and Yorke are on the top of the list. He went against what seemed to be conventional wisdom on both. Yoshida salary wise and Yorke as a 1st round pick. I think those two will have to prove themselves by performing well above their floors before the baseball world acknowledges what they are. Each would be a coup for both Bloom and the scouting department.
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Post by crossedsabres8 on Feb 22, 2023 15:02:54 GMT -5
The negatives on Mayer's defense seem more like a reason why he wouldn't transition well to the outfield than why he's not a plus defensive shortstop.
His hit tool I understand, he is swinging and missing a lot. But he also handles velocity well, takes a walk, and generates good contact. That's all "hit tool" in my book.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,501
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Post by nomar on Feb 22, 2023 15:15:20 GMT -5
If Longenhagen thinks Mayer’s body type is boxy, then I think his take on mine would make me cry.
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Post by bosox904 on Feb 22, 2023 15:33:59 GMT -5
In the Top 100 chat:
Jeremy: Buest guess for top MLB prospect in 2024? 12:21 Eric A Longenhagen: Wood then Bleis
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Feb 22, 2023 15:44:50 GMT -5
In the Top 100 chat: Jeremy: Buest guess for top MLB prospect in 2024? 12:21 Eric A Longenhagen: Wood then Bleis Also: Guest: Thoughts on Brandon Walter pre-injury last year? Nearly a 23-1 K-BB ratio in his AA innings is pretty nuts 1:08 Eric A Longenhagen: He’d have been a 50 had he not gotten hurt, velo was also down before he went on the IL.
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Post by bosox904 on Feb 22, 2023 15:53:08 GMT -5
In the Top 100 chat: Jeremy: Buest guess for top MLB prospect in 2024? 12:21 Eric A Longenhagen: Wood then Bleis Also: Guest: Thoughts on Brandon Walter pre-injury last year? Nearly a 23-1 K-BB ratio in his AA innings is pretty nuts 1:08 Eric A Longenhagen: He’d have been a 50 had he not gotten hurt, velo was also down before he went on the IL. And they mentioned Bello would have likely been right around Senga. So they just have 5 in the top 40ish and 7 in the 102-113.
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Post by Guidas on Feb 22, 2023 16:55:41 GMT -5
Yes. There are a number of international evaluators who didn't love Yoshida. Don't you recall the article, I think written by Kiley, basically saying 9 of 10 international guys crushed the signing? If you dismiss his bad 2022 as injury-based, high Longenhagen does, it's not crazy. When I talk about Bloom being willing to take risks, Yoshida and Yorke are on the top of the list. He went against what seemed to be conventional wisdom on both. Yoshida salary wise and Yorke as a 1st round pick. I think those two will have to prove themselves by performing well above their floors before the baseball world acknowledges what they are. Each would be a coup for both Bloom and the scouting department. Meanwhile, Pete Crow Armstrong (a 4 tool player), whom Bloom passed over for Yorke (a one-tool player), is ranked at 14 overall with a FV of 60. So, yeah, that was a hell of a risk.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Feb 22, 2023 16:58:17 GMT -5
When I talk about Bloom being willing to take risks, Yoshida and Yorke are on the top of the list. He went against what seemed to be conventional wisdom on both. Yoshida salary wise and Yorke as a 1st round pick. I think those two will have to prove themselves by performing well above their floors before the baseball world acknowledges what they are. Each would be a coup for both Bloom and the scouting department. Meanwhile, Pete Crow Armstrong (a 4 tool player), whom Bloom passed over for Yorke (a one-tool player), is ranked at 14 overall with a FV of 60. So, yeah, that was a hell of a risk. Shouldn’t even acknowledge the trolling at this point but 1. That’s not how the draft works (unless you know for a fact PCA would’ve been the pick) 2. That wasn’t even remotely the point and you’re just forcing your narrative (again, trolling) and 3. Yorke’s one tool is the most important one and it’s the one that PCA probably doesn’t have, so it’s overly simplistic of a view anyway.
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Post by incandenza on Feb 22, 2023 17:16:56 GMT -5
When I talk about Bloom being willing to take risks, Yoshida and Yorke are on the top of the list. He went against what seemed to be conventional wisdom on both. Yoshida salary wise and Yorke as a 1st round pick. I think those two will have to prove themselves by performing well above their floors before the baseball world acknowledges what they are. Each would be a coup for both Bloom and the scouting department. Meanwhile, Pete Crow Armstrong (a 4 tool player), whom Bloom passed over for Yorke (a one-tool player), is ranked at 14 overall with a FV of 60. So, yeah, that was a hell of a risk. Here are the players fangraphs ranked from the 2020 draft who were taken ahead of Yorke at pick #17:
8. Robert Hassell (ranked at 112) 9. Zac Veen (95) 15. Mick Abel (25)
Plus Crochet, Detmers, and Torkelson have all graduated. So that means Boston made a better pick in Yorke than all but 5 of the 16 teams that drafted ahead of them. Plus they used the savings on Yorke to get Blaze Jordan in round 3.
So... not the most impressive gotcha I've ever seen, Guidas.
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Post by Guidas on Feb 22, 2023 17:25:24 GMT -5
Meanwhile, Pete Crow Armstrong (a 4 tool player), whom Bloom passed over for Yorke (a one-tool player), is ranked at 14 overall with a FV of 60. So, yeah, that was a hell of a risk. Shouldn’t even acknowledge the trolling at this point but 1. That’s not how the draft works (unless you know for a fact PCA would’ve been the pick) 2. That wasn’t even remotely the point and you’re just forcing your narrative (again, trolling) and 3. Yorke’s one tool is the most important one and it’s the one that PCA probably doesn’t have, so it’s overly simplistic of a view anyway. That's exactly how the draft works. Bloom decided to go high risk on Yorke and spread the money around, while the best player available was (and remains) PCR. That's no troll when someone is commenting that they admired his risk moves. I said at the time it was a huge mistake and PCR will have a higher lifetime WAR than Yorke and anyone the Sox picked after him. I'll stand by that.
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Post by Guidas on Feb 22, 2023 17:27:36 GMT -5
Meanwhile, Pete Crow Armstrong (a 4 tool player), whom Bloom passed over for Yorke (a one-tool player), is ranked at 14 overall with a FV of 60. So, yeah, that was a hell of a risk. Here are the players fangraphs ranked from the 2020 draft who were taken ahead of Yorke at pick #17: 8. Robert Hassell (ranked at 112) 9. Zac Veen (95) 15. Mick Abel (25) Plus Crochet, Detmers, and Torkelson have all graduated. So that means Boston made a better pick in Yorke than all but 5 of the 16 teams that drafted ahead of them. Plus they used the savings on Yorke to get Blaze Jordan in round 3. So... not the most impressive gotcha I've ever seen, Guidas.
Crow Armstrong was best player on the board at the time. Yorke was projected as a 2nd or 3rd round talent. I explained my angst above. I still believe PCR will have a higher lifetime MLB WAR than the entire 2020 Sox draft class.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Feb 22, 2023 17:36:31 GMT -5
Here are the players fangraphs ranked from the 2020 draft who were taken ahead of Yorke at pick #17: 8. Robert Hassell (ranked at 112) 9. Zac Veen (95) 15. Mick Abel (25) Plus Crochet, Detmers, and Torkelson have all graduated. So that means Boston made a better pick in Yorke than all but 5 of the 16 teams that drafted ahead of them. Plus they used the savings on Yorke to get Blaze Jordan in round 3. So... not the most impressive gotcha I've ever seen, Guidas.
Crow Armstrong was best player on the board at the time. Yorke was projected as a 2nd or 3rd round talent. I explained my angst above. I still believe PCR will have a higher lifetime MLB WAR than the entire 2020 Sox draft class. Why did Dombrowski allow the cheating to happen that caused the Sox to lose that 2nd round pick? Accountability starts at the top
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Post by incandenza on Feb 22, 2023 17:36:32 GMT -5
Here are the players fangraphs ranked from the 2020 draft who were taken ahead of Yorke at pick #17: 8. Robert Hassell (ranked at 112) 9. Zac Veen (95) 15. Mick Abel (25) Plus Crochet, Detmers, and Torkelson have all graduated. So that means Boston made a better pick in Yorke than all but 5 of the 16 teams that drafted ahead of them. Plus they used the savings on Yorke to get Blaze Jordan in round 3. So... not the most impressive gotcha I've ever seen, Guidas.
Crow Armstrong was best player on the board at the time. Yorke was projected as a 2nd or 3rd round talent. I explained my angst above. I still believe PCR will have a higher lifetime MLB WAR than the entire 2020 Sox draft class. "Bloom is so incompetent that he picked Nick Yorke in the 2020 draft" is just an obviously bad argument and I can't believe you're doubling down on it.
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Post by julyanmorley on Feb 22, 2023 17:51:52 GMT -5
In fairness, a lot of people did want exactly Pete Crow-Armstrong when the Sox were on the clock.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Feb 22, 2023 18:44:36 GMT -5
Crow Armstrong was best player on the board at the time. Yorke was projected as a 2nd or 3rd round talent. I explained my angst above. I still believe PCR will have a higher lifetime MLB WAR than the entire 2020 Sox draft class. "Bloom is so incompetent that he picked Nick Yorke in the 2020 draft" is just an obviously bad argument and I can't believe you're doubling down on it. I, for one, CAN believe it!
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Post by scottysmalls on Feb 22, 2023 19:41:25 GMT -5
When I talk about Bloom being willing to take risks, Yoshida and Yorke are on the top of the list. He went against what seemed to be conventional wisdom on both. Yoshida salary wise and Yorke as a 1st round pick. I think those two will have to prove themselves by performing well above their floors before the baseball world acknowledges what they are. Each would be a coup for both Bloom and the scouting department. Meanwhile, Pete Crow Armstrong (a 4 tool player), whom Bloom passed over for Yorke (a one-tool player), is ranked at 14 overall with a FV of 60. So, yeah, that was a hell of a risk. And every MLB team except the Angels is stupid because they didn’t take Mike Trout, are we really doing this with the draft now?
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Post by seamus on Feb 22, 2023 21:21:12 GMT -5
Meanwhile, Pete Crow Armstrong (a 4 tool player), whom Bloom passed over for Yorke (a one-tool player), is ranked at 14 overall with a FV of 60. So, yeah, that was a hell of a risk. And every MLB team except the Angels is stupid because they didn’t take Mike Trout, are we really doing this with the draft now? Frankly, I think the fact that Yorke has been as good as he has been to this point and is generally a top 100-ish prospect speaks well of the organization's ability to identify interesting talent that the mainstream consensus has dismissed. They were able to sign him $900k underslot (PCA went for full-slot) and then use those savings to draft and sign Blaze Jordan and Shane Drohan, both of whom are good prospects, especially Blaze. I honestly don't know how one can look at the 2020 draft as anything other than a success given that they had to forfeit 1 of their 5 picks because of the sign-stealing.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Feb 22, 2023 21:45:39 GMT -5
Meanwhile, Pete Crow Armstrong (a 4 tool player), whom Bloom passed over for Yorke (a one-tool player), is ranked at 14 overall with a FV of 60. So, yeah, that was a hell of a risk. And every MLB team except the Angels is stupid because they didn’t take Mike Trout, are we really doing this with the draft now? BOS drafted three spots after Trout was taken, so they never had a shot at him. Theo took the next CF on their board, Rey Fuentes, so it's possible that if Trout had still been there...
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