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Evaluating the Front Office and Ownership
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Post by terriblehondo on Dec 19, 2022 11:58:55 GMT -5
I still think you need to give Bloom 2 more years to see if his model will work. That being said he absolutely screwed up last year with the deadline, the cap and losing X. I don't blame him for not signing X this offseason I would have let him walk also at that price. But there is no way that I only would have gotten a 4th round pick for him. Not quite the Lynn, Fisk fiasco but it still gave the impression of being incompetent. Finishing poorly allows Bloom to draft higher 2 out of 3 years so lets hope that he hits on those pieces but it remains to be seen if that will be the case. All GM's are going to make mistakes and be subject to getting criticized. I do worry that Bloom over values prospects like Cherington did because most of these guys are going to flame out at some point. Granted I only read Ian's scouting report but the guys Bloom has gotten in trades while moving the Sox up in the prospect list don't look like they are going to be much of anything. I am biased on this but my dad never saw the Sox win the World Series and it was over 40 years for me to see it. There were a lot of great Sox teams over those years. But I don't want a participation trophy at the end of the year. Maybe the younger guys have been spoiled with all the World Series titles and those are OK for them but I am not like Manfred, I don't think it is just a piece of steel, at the end of the year I want a World Series Trophy. To me a 2nd place team is still a loser.
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Post by manfred on Dec 19, 2022 12:00:32 GMT -5
Agree. But the drafts/intl signings under Dombrowski were very good. Again the talent on farm was very young when Bloom got here. If anything, the cupboard being bare falls on Cherington, who had some truly awful drafts, especially with his high-end picks. Other than Benintendi, Kopech and Beeks, he didn't draft any players who've generated a career (to date) 1.0 fWAR or better. That's pretty poor return on 2012-2015 drafts, and especially egregious when he had the #7 and #43 overall picks in the same draft (2013). His international signings - usually tougher to project - yielded Devers, Moncada, and Darwinzon Hernandez, while Anderson Espinosa and Luis Basabe were used as trade bait to get players of need. He also wasted a ton of money on Luis Castillo, who did play a position of need, but they completely blew the evaluation of him. They also blew the evaluation/overvalued some internal talent (Weber, Owens et al) who were highly ranked and could've been leveraged in deals while their stock was at its zenith. Dombrowski came in, kept the right guys, had generally productive drafts and moved some of the surplus (most of whom would never make MLB or generate more than 1.0 fWAR) for (mostly) good return. Every GM has a stinker deal, and his was probably Thornton, but even then, it didn't wreck the system. Re; The bolded, they were? Dombrowski's era did not sign Devers, the team signed him in 2013. So you're giving him credit for Moncada who was kind of a unicorn that the Red Sox just paid the most money for and... Darwinzon Hernandez? I'm not sure his drafts were poor but I'm also not sure they're particularly impressive. I do agree Cherington's drafts weren't too hot. He drafted Casas and Houck, right? And he got Duran and Kutter Crawford with later picks. He drafted Dalbec. That collection is from three years. Then a bunch of guys who have subsequently been traded. And he signed Bello, Rafaela, and Paulino. Put differently, there could be a point this season when Bello, Houck, and Crawford are starting… all DD. Casas at 1b, Dalbec could be playing, Rafaela might even get time. Duran… who knows, but he has been a top-5 guy in the last year or so. It’s not bad.
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Post by scottysmalls on Dec 19, 2022 12:04:49 GMT -5
Re; The bolded, they were? Dombrowski's era did not sign Devers, the team signed him in 2013. So you're giving him credit for Moncada who was kind of a unicorn that the Red Sox just paid the most money for and... Darwinzon Hernandez? I'm not sure his drafts were poor but I'm also not sure they're particularly impressive. I do agree Cherington's drafts weren't too hot. He drafted Casas and Houck, right? And he got Duran and Kutter Crawford with later picks. He drafted Dalbec. That collection is from three years. Then a bunch of guys who have subsequently been traded. And he signed Bello, Rafaela, and Paulino. Put differently, there could be a point this season when Bello, Houck, and Crawford are starting… all DD. Casas at 1b, Dalbec could be playing, Rafaela might even get time. Duran… who knows, but he has been a top-5 guy in the last year or so. It’s not bad. Verdict is still out on most of those guys, but certainly it’s nowhere near the cost controlled talent and farm system Dombrowski himself inherited.
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 2,765
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Post by mobaz on Dec 19, 2022 12:05:30 GMT -5
The Turner signing made me aware of a general trend we are seeing with Bloom: targeting players who are past their prime and hoping they can catch lightning in a bottle. Turner, Jansen, Garrett Richards, Andriese, Rich Hill, Wacha etc…. There might be varying levels of success in these moves, but as a general practice, avoiding guys in their prime seems like a bad idea. It reminds me of the old/dark days when they were targeting guys like Andre Dawson, Frank Viola, Canseco, Danny Darwin, Saberhagen, Steve Avery, Ramon Martinez and many more. It didn’t work then and it’s not going to work now. You need to build a team around stars to adequately compete. They don’t seem to be willing to do that anymore. This is pretty on-point. There are promising and useful pieces but similar lack of a core, a lack of cohesion on the roster, and reliance on the past-their-prime guys to find the old magic and Troy O'Leary types to overachieve. I did love those teams, but wasn't a recipe for a consistent winner.
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Post by manfred on Dec 19, 2022 12:26:16 GMT -5
He drafted Casas and Houck, right? And he got Duran and Kutter Crawford with later picks. He drafted Dalbec. That collection is from three years. Then a bunch of guys who have subsequently been traded. And he signed Bello, Rafaela, and Paulino. Put differently, there could be a point this season when Bello, Houck, and Crawford are starting… all DD. Casas at 1b, Dalbec could be playing, Rafaela might even get time. Duran… who knows, but he has been a top-5 guy in the last year or so. It’s not bad. Verdict is still out on most of those guys, but certainly it’s nowhere near the cost controlled talent and farm system Dombrowski himself inherited. I guess I’m not sure what you want. Two first rounders, two major leaguers, with at least one expected to be an above average regular. A few other starters. A few top-100 prospects. In three drafts. I’m not disagreeing that a) they were stacked with youth when he arrived or b) he traded a ton of guys. But that is bigger than the narrower argument about how he drafted. He drafted pretty well, it seems, if we consider ML playing time and who has expectations this year.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Dec 19, 2022 12:30:36 GMT -5
He drafted Casas and Houck, right? And he got Duran and Kutter Crawford with later picks. He drafted Dalbec. That collection is from three years. Then a bunch of guys who have subsequently been traded. And he signed Bello, Rafaela, and Paulino. Put differently, there could be a point this season when Bello, Houck, and Crawford are starting… all DD. Casas at 1b, Dalbec could be playing, Rafaela might even get time. Duran… who knows, but he has been a top-5 guy in the last year or so. It’s not bad. Verdict is still out on most of those guys, but certainly it’s nowhere near the cost controlled talent and farm system Dombrowski himself inherited. Most of that talent never developed. I'm not sure why we're still feeling angst over trading Moncada, Michael Kopech, Manuel Margot, Anderson Espinoza, and others. Sure, the system took a massive hit. But most of them were JAGs anyway. If they really wanted Espinoza back, they had an opportunity to sign him last month
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Post by taiwansox on Dec 19, 2022 12:32:35 GMT -5
He drafted Casas and Houck, right? And he got Duran and Kutter Crawford with later picks. He drafted Dalbec. That collection is from three years. Then a bunch of guys who have subsequently been traded. And he signed Bello, Rafaela, and Paulino. Put differently, there could be a point this season when Bello, Houck, and Crawford are starting… all DD. Casas at 1b, Dalbec could be playing, Rafaela might even get time. Duran… who knows, but he has been a top-5 guy in the last year or so. It’s not bad. Verdict is still out on most of those guys, but certainly it’s nowhere near the cost controlled talent and farm system Dombrowski himself inherited. In fairness to DD, I think he inherited an excellent young core (Mookie, Xander, Benintendi, even JBJ/E-Rod/Vazquez/Barnes), but those guys were all in the majors by his first year with the team. But in terms of prospects, thank god he cashed in (Margot, Moncada, Kopech, Guerra, Basabe, Espinoza, and Beeks). I don’t think we win in 2018 without the Eovaldi and Pearce trades, those were key. My worries with Bloom is his minor league talent evaluation. You have to be willing to make bets on certain prospects and dump the others. We’ll see if the Vazquez trade pays off, but we haven’t acquired any meaningfully impactful prospects yet in his tenure.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 19, 2022 12:37:15 GMT -5
Agree. But the drafts/intl signings under Dombrowski were very good. Again the talent on farm was very young when Bloom got here. If anything, the cupboard being bare falls on Cherington, who had some truly awful drafts, especially with his high-end picks. Other than Benintendi, Kopech and Beeks, he didn't draft any players who've generated a career (to date) 1.0 fWAR or better. That's pretty poor return on 2012-2015 drafts, and especially egregious when he had the #7 and #43 overall picks in the same draft (2013). His international signings - usually tougher to project - yielded Devers, Moncada, and Darwinzon Hernandez, while Anderson Espinosa and Luis Basabe were used as trade bait to get players of need. He also wasted a ton of money on Luis Castillo, who did play a position of need, but they completely blew the evaluation of him. They also blew the evaluation/overvalued some internal talent (Weber, Owens et al) who were highly ranked and could've been leveraged in deals while their stock was at its zenith. Dombrowski came in, kept the right guys, had generally productive drafts and moved some of the surplus (most of whom would never make MLB or generate more than 1.0 fWAR) for (mostly) good return. Every GM has a stinker deal, and his was probably Thornton, but even then, it didn't wreck the system. Re; The bolded, they were? Dombrowski's era did not sign Devers, the team signed him in 2013. So you're giving him credit for Moncada who was kind of a unicorn that the Red Sox just paid the most money for and... Darwinzon Hernandez? I'm not sure his drafts were poor but I'm also not sure they're particularly impressive. I do agree Cherington's drafts weren't too hot. Those are all Cherington moves I mentioned, not Dombrowski. That list came after I mentioned Cherington basically being the reason the system was bottom-heavy from 2019 going forward. Most of his picks were dreck and didn't develop.
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Post by scottysmalls on Dec 19, 2022 12:38:22 GMT -5
Re; The bolded, they were? Dombrowski's era did not sign Devers, the team signed him in 2013. So you're giving him credit for Moncada who was kind of a unicorn that the Red Sox just paid the most money for and... Darwinzon Hernandez? I'm not sure his drafts were poor but I'm also not sure they're particularly impressive. I do agree Cherington's drafts weren't too hot. Those are all Cherington moves I mentioned, not Dombrowski. That list came after I mentioned Cherington basically being the reason the system was bottom-heavy from 2019 going forward. Most of his picks were dreck and didn't develop. Ah you’re right, that’s on me, poor reading comprehension before my coffee.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 19, 2022 12:48:21 GMT -5
Those are all Cherington moves I mentioned, not Dombrowski. That list came after I mentioned Cherington basically being the reason the system was bottom-heavy from 2019 going forward. Most of his picks were dreck and didn't develop. Ah you’re right, that’s on me, poor reading comprehension before my coffee. No worries! We all do this at one time or another. (or as I like to say, "Wait, you expect me to read the linked article before I comment on it's contents!? Do you realize I'm an American!?")
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Post by scottysmalls on Dec 19, 2022 13:02:03 GMT -5
Verdict is still out on most of those guys, but certainly it’s nowhere near the cost controlled talent and farm system Dombrowski himself inherited. I guess I’m not sure what you want. Two first rounders, two major leaguers, with at least one expected to be an above average regular. A few other starters. A few top-100 prospects. In three drafts. I’m not disagreeing that a) they were stacked with youth when he arrived or b) he traded a ton of guys. But that is bigger than the narrower argument about how he drafted. He drafted pretty well, it seems, if we consider ML playing time and who has expectations this year. Dombrowski inherited 4 legitimate cost controlled MLB stars and several top 20 prospects. Maybe we’re now quibbling just about what very good looks like, but to me, in recent Red Sox history, THAT is very good. Of the guys he brought in we’re not even sure one of them is a starting caliber player yet, and none of them were ever prospects in the tier of guys that he traded like Moncada or Espinoza. In terms of how his drafts stack up I didn't say I thought he was poor at it, I'm just not sure he was so good either? Like how does an average series of drafts play out in that time given their draft position. I don't think it's much different from what they got.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 19, 2022 13:08:23 GMT -5
Verdict is still out on most of those guys, but certainly it’s nowhere near the cost controlled talent and farm system Dombrowski himself inherited. In fairness to DD, I think he inherited an excellent young core (Mookie, Xander, Benintendi, even JBJ/E-Rod/Vazquez/Barnes), but those guys were all in the majors by his first year with the team. But in terms of prospects, thank god he cashed in (Margot, Moncada, Kopech, Guerra, Basabe, Espinoza, and Beeks). I don’t think we win in 2018 without the Eovaldi and Pearce trades, those were key. My worries with Bloom is his minor league talent evaluation. You have to be willing to make bets on certain prospects and dump the others. We’ll see if the Vazquez trade pays off, but we haven’t acquired any meaningfully impactful prospects yet in his tenure. Absolutely and that's a huge problem because his whole strategy is based on minor league talent evaluation. He needs to be really good at it and hasn't been so far. Why I loved DD, he was great at it.
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Post by incandenza on Dec 19, 2022 13:18:50 GMT -5
To simplify a bit, there's three main things that determine how good the team you build is: 1) How much money is being spent? 2) How well is the money being spent? 3) How much cheap talent do you have? #1 is on the owners, and they spend a good amount. They straddle the CBT line, going over some years and making sure not to hit the nasty 3 year offender penalties. It's fair to say that this strategy is less impressive than it used to be - we now have more teams in a similar boat as well as some teams now flying past the CBT limit like it doesn't even exist. #2 is on Chaim and you can check the spreadsheet he has spent very efficiently #3 is a huge factor and the Red Sox have been near the bottom of the league for years. Since Devers came up, the best player they've developed was Tanner Houck and the next best is Josh Taylor. Last year's Astros got *28* WAR from players that they called up in that time. The Blue Jays have called up 6 all stars since we developed our last everyday player. Whose fault is this? It takes a long time to develop talent, the current regime has nothing to do with the cupboard being bare the last 3 years. I agree with all this. But then let's follow the logic... The Red Sox are now in a dry spell (hopefully soon to break) of getting value out of cost-controlled young talent. Bloom has added to prospect depth, which means, if his approach works, they'll have more such talent a few years from now. If the goal is to build a consistent winner, wouldn't that mean this is the perfect time to sign a star player to a longer term deal? That way they'd be getting more surplus value in the next 2-3 years (when the homegrown cupboard is still relatively bare) and could afford the latter years of negative value on the contract (because more of that homegrown talent will have arrived).
Add to that the apparent fact - at the very least, the possibility - that Bogaerts might have signed a reasonable extension last offseason, which would have let them keep such a star on a not-crazy contract.
The tragedy is that doing that extension - at the same price they eventually offered anyway this offseason - would have been ideal for the soxfansince67 in all of us and would have made good team-building sense.
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Post by incandenza on Dec 19, 2022 13:20:31 GMT -5
In fairness to DD, I think he inherited an excellent young core (Mookie, Xander, Benintendi, even JBJ/E-Rod/Vazquez/Barnes), but those guys were all in the majors by his first year with the team. But in terms of prospects, thank god he cashed in (Margot, Moncada, Kopech, Guerra, Basabe, Espinoza, and Beeks). I don’t think we win in 2018 without the Eovaldi and Pearce trades, those were key. My worries with Bloom is his minor league talent evaluation. You have to be willing to make bets on certain prospects and dump the others. We’ll see if the Vazquez trade pays off, but we haven’t acquired any meaningfully impactful prospects yet in his tenure. Absolutely and that's a huge problem because his whole strategy is based on minor league talent evaluation. He needs to be really good at it and hasn't been so far. Why I loved DD, he was great at it. The White Sox had their choice of Moncada and Devers in the Sale deal and chose Moncada. How does this history get written if they had chosen Devers instead?
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Post by scottysmalls on Dec 19, 2022 13:26:36 GMT -5
Verdict is still out on most of those guys, but certainly it’s nowhere near the cost controlled talent and farm system Dombrowski himself inherited. In fairness to DD, I think he inherited an excellent young core (Mookie, Xander, Benintendi, even JBJ/E-Rod/Vazquez/Barnes), but those guys were all in the majors by his first year with the team. But in terms of prospects, thank god he cashed in (Margot, Moncada, Kopech, Guerra, Basabe, Espinoza, and Beeks). I don’t think we win in 2018 without the Eovaldi and Pearce trades, those were key. My worries with Bloom is his minor league talent evaluation. You have to be willing to make bets on certain prospects and dump the others. We’ll see if the Vazquez trade pays off, but we haven’t acquired any meaningfully impactful prospects yet in his tenure. People keep saying that DD was great at minor league evaluation as if that's a fact.. I'm not so sure it is. He just kind of traded everyone except Devers? Is that good evaluation or just an overall philosophy? He didn't add any minor leaguers really other than through the draft/IFA, and people pretty universally at the time didn't think he was getting maximum value for the guys he traded. On Bloom, I totally agree with your point and I don't think we have the answer yet. Some of the minor leaguers through trades have to start panning out, and at some point he should trade guys the org is lower on than the consensus, but I'm not sure the right opportunity for that has happened yet. Agree the clock is ticking on this point though.
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Post by manfred on Dec 19, 2022 13:40:53 GMT -5
In fairness to DD, I think he inherited an excellent young core (Mookie, Xander, Benintendi, even JBJ/E-Rod/Vazquez/Barnes), but those guys were all in the majors by his first year with the team. But in terms of prospects, thank god he cashed in (Margot, Moncada, Kopech, Guerra, Basabe, Espinoza, and Beeks). I don’t think we win in 2018 without the Eovaldi and Pearce trades, those were key. My worries with Bloom is his minor league talent evaluation. You have to be willing to make bets on certain prospects and dump the others. We’ll see if the Vazquez trade pays off, but we haven’t acquired any meaningfully impactful prospects yet in his tenure. People keep saying that DD was great at minor league evaluation as if that's a fact.. I'm not so sure it is. He just kind of traded everyone except Devers? Is that good evaluation or just an overall philosophy? He didn't add any minor leaguers really other than through the draft/IFA, and people pretty universally at the time didn't think he was getting maximum value for the guys he traded. On Bloom, I totally agree with your point and I don't think we have the answer yet. Some of the minor leaguers through trades have to start panning out, and at some point he should trade guys the org is lower on than the consensus, but I'm not sure the right opportunity for that has happened yet. Agree the clock is ticking on this point though. I don’t get how you can disparage DD’s stock but say some of CB’s acquisitions have “started panning out”? Bello looked good last year. Houck has already provided value. Dalbec has started a ton of games. Casas is the starting 1b this season. Crawford pitched well at times last year. Not gangbusters, but there has to be equal evaluation. Are you referring to Wink? Who else? And if, as you said, DD is fine at drafting, but not necessarily “good,” again, as pong as standards are equal. No more credit for Nayer than Casas, for example.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 19, 2022 13:41:48 GMT -5
Absolutely and that's a huge problem because his whole strategy is based on minor league talent evaluation. He needs to be really good at it and hasn't been so far. Why I loved DD, he was great at it. The White Sox had their choice of Moncada and Devers in the Sale deal and chose Moncada. How does this history get written if they had chosen Devers instead?Well, it becomes an outlier because current White Sox ownership/management would've made a good decision.
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Post by scottysmalls on Dec 19, 2022 13:44:41 GMT -5
People keep saying that DD was great at minor league evaluation as if that's a fact.. I'm not so sure it is. He just kind of traded everyone except Devers? Is that good evaluation or just an overall philosophy? He didn't add any minor leaguers really other than through the draft/IFA, and people pretty universally at the time didn't think he was getting maximum value for the guys he traded. On Bloom, I totally agree with your point and I don't think we have the answer yet. Some of the minor leaguers through trades have to start panning out, and at some point he should trade guys the org is lower on than the consensus, but I'm not sure the right opportunity for that has happened yet. Agree the clock is ticking on this point though. I don’t get how you can disparage DD’s stock but say some of CB’s acquisitions have “started panning out”? Bello looked good last year. Houck has already provided value. Dalbec has started a ton of games. Casas is the starting 1b this season. Crawford pitched well at times last year. Not gangbusters, but there has to be equal evaluation. Are you referring to Wink? Who else? And if, as you said, DD is fine at drafting, but not necessarily “good,” again, as pong as standards are equal. No more credit for Nayer than Casas, for example. I didn't say they've started panning out, that's actually the opposite of what I said. I said they have to start panning out. Implication is if that doesn't happen then his overall approach has failed.
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Post by manfred on Dec 19, 2022 13:45:44 GMT -5
I don’t get how you can disparage DD’s stock but say some of CB’s acquisitions have “started panning out”? Bello looked good last year. Houck has already provided value. Dalbec has started a ton of games. Casas is the starting 1b this season. Crawford pitched well at times last year. Not gangbusters, but there has to be equal evaluation. Are you referring to Wink? Who else? And if, as you said, DD is fine at drafting, but not necessarily “good,” again, as pong as standards are equal. No more credit for Nayer than Casas, for example. I didn't say they've started panning out, that's actually the opposite of what I said. I said they have to start panning out. Implication is if that doesn't happen then his overall approach has failed. Ah, yes… apologies. Misread. Carry on.
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Post by notstarboard on Dec 19, 2022 13:46:29 GMT -5
Verdict is still out on most of those guys, but certainly it’s nowhere near the cost controlled talent and farm system Dombrowski himself inherited. In fairness to DD, I think he inherited an excellent young core (Mookie, Xander, Benintendi, even JBJ/E-Rod/Vazquez/Barnes), but those guys were all in the majors by his first year with the team. But in terms of prospects, thank god he cashed in (Margot, Moncada, Kopech, Guerra, Basabe, Espinoza, and Beeks). I don’t think we win in 2018 without the Eovaldi and Pearce trades, those were key. My worries with Bloom is his minor league talent evaluation. You have to be willing to make bets on certain prospects and dump the others. We’ll see if the Vazquez trade pays off, but we haven’t acquired any meaningfully impactful prospects yet in his tenure. Re: bolded bit, why? I the FO is confident a prospect is overvalued by others around the league then by all means, but there's also no reason that must be the case.
Most of the guys on that list brought back less value than they ended up being worth, and I think we'd have come out ahead (and might not have had to do our semi-rebuild in the first place) if we just held onto them. I still think we win the WS in 2018. Sale, Eovaldi, and Pearce were worth a combined ~30% cWPA, which is substantial, but the playoffs are inherently SSS and dumb moves that happen to work out are still dumb moves. Having kept the prospects would mean no disastrous Sale extension (i.e. $25-30MM more per year for FA spending from 2020-2024), Espinal and Moncada still beefing up our infield, Kopech still in our rotation, and Beeks as a solid pen lefty; all of the above would still be a good value on their arb salaries. It just so happens that the 2023 team could still use another SP, another middle IF, and another lefty in the bullpen. I fully admit that Sale was fabulous before his extension years, though, playoffs aside. We paid royally for the privilege, but he kicked butt for us. No regrets; the bad bit was extending him a year early, which was separate from the initial decision to acquire him.
Edit: Devers and Moncada have the same amount of service time. Devers has 18.1 fWAR in 2958 PA and Moncada has 13.6 fWAR in 2740 PA; so, a 4.5 fWAR gap with Devers getting 218 PA more. Yes Devers has been the better player, but people are acting like DD traded some JAGs to CWS when Moncada in particular has been a very productive player. I don't have a problem with trading prospects; I just want to see [value in] > [value out] as often as possible. Also, I don't intend to pull on the DD thread any more; will return my focus to the current regime.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 19, 2022 13:50:32 GMT -5
Absolutely and that's a huge problem because his whole strategy is based on minor league talent evaluation. He needs to be really good at it and hasn't been so far. Why I loved DD, he was great at it. The White Sox had their choice of Moncada and Devers in the Sale deal and chose Moncada. How does this history get written if they had chosen Devers instead? nesn.com/2019/08/dave-dombrowski-explains-rafael-devers-place-in-chris-sale-trade-talks/
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Dec 19, 2022 13:53:54 GMT -5
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Post by crossedsabres8 on Dec 19, 2022 14:07:34 GMT -5
As a more big picture look, the main reason why the farm is better off now than it was in 2020 is because of DD's versus Bloom's philosophy. If you trade your prospects away more than you trade for prospect, you're going to have a worse farm system than vice versa, regardless of how good a talent evaluator you are. That's why the farm was in a good place when Cherington left, even if you can criticize his individual moves.
The Red Sox have had pretty good to great amateur scouting for a long time, which for one is something that should give fans some eternal optimism, but also has helped all of the previous GMs/POBOs.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 19, 2022 14:10:13 GMT -5
DD does an amazing job literally explaining the trade negotiations in impressive detail about Devers. Yet a Boston sport reporters opinion which goes against what the GM said proves what? DD is saying Devers came up as third piece, not that they offered him as the main piece. Saying the White Sox wanted Moncada or Benintendi just to start negotiations and Devers only came up as third piece. Sorry unless you have proof from someone that was involved in the discussions I'm going to believe DD, he was always a man of his word.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Dec 19, 2022 14:15:23 GMT -5
DD does an amazing job literally explaining the trade negotiations in impressive detail about Devers. Yet a Boston sport reporters opinion which goes against what the GM said proves what? DD is saying Devers came up as third piece, not that they offered him as the main piece. Saying the White Sox wanted Moncada or Benintendi just to start negotiations and Devers only came up as third piece. Sorry unless you have proof from someone that was involved in the discussions I'm going to believe DD, he was always a man of his word. Funny you should say that. Somebody else questioned Alex in the exact same manner, and this was my favorite tweet in response to it
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