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Patriots 2023 Offseason Thread
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 28, 2023 8:50:27 GMT -5
From The Beast ($) Speed is in his genes: he was a HS track star (finished 6th in 200M at states) and has two sisters who were track stars including one who ran hurdles in Tokyo Olympics for Colombia. Gonzalez also played WR, wildcat QB, and punter in HS. Strength and tackling need work, but huge wingspan and sounds like GLUE in man coverage, which we know BB loves. I'm getting excited. Also The Beast is the best!!! Given depth of the draft, I'm hoping we use our ammo to make three Day 2 picks instead of moving up from 46. Someone good will still be there and I'd love to see some WR, TE and OT action. There it is. Now the pick is making sense to me from Bill's perspective. |
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,048
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Post by mobaz on Apr 28, 2023 9:09:18 GMT -5
Based on a piece from Bedard, it seems like the biggest knock against him is concern over whether he has the mentality to be the #1 guy. Guessing Adrian Klemm has some inside info to provide there, which hopefully gives justified confidence. |
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Post by texs31 on Apr 28, 2023 9:20:09 GMT -5
Zapruder Film breakdown as a video of the war room during the Gonzalez selection shows them watching tape from a UNC game.
So, of course, folks are speculating on Josh Downs, Michael Mayer and Keion White (can't see the opponent in the video but the Heels hosted Notre Dame and Georgia Tech this year).
Of course, there is probably video watching of any number of prospects for any number of reasons so it's likely meaningless. Still, the internet has to internet (and I'm here to post about it).
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Post by rasimon on Apr 28, 2023 10:06:15 GMT -5
Almost every analyst loved the Christian Gonzalez pick. The word "steal" comes up alot. Im not as positive on Gonzalez as most are, due to his production numbers last year, but I can definitely see how it could work. Here is a PFF analyst who is even more negative than me on Gonzalez. He likes the movement skills but hates everything else.
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Post by costpet on Apr 28, 2023 11:21:11 GMT -5
I know it’s a pipe dream but with 4 picks in the 4th round, I hope he uses them all instead of trading them away. There’s a lot of good players in that round that we could use. In a draft volume is good.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 28, 2023 12:04:28 GMT -5
Yeah I'd love to keep those 4th, it's the value section of the draft. Trade those 6th into 5th round picks. The problem isn't four 4th round picks, it's 5 picks in the 6th and 7th round. Yet it's likely a given he trades up in 2nd or 3rd. Let's just hope it's chasing value.
Gonzalez has the best cover skills in draft, he's like a bigger DJ Turner. You can't teach that. I'm big about CBs getting their hands on balls, either interceptions or PD, he had 11 at age 20. Go compare that to Witherspoon at age 20. He's like Sauce Gardner for me, instant day one impact starter. Not much talk about him because he was gone top ten on almost every mock.
He's about cooking, looks his age, heck he looked younger and humble. Compared to half the guys picked that already have $100,000 plus chains.
What I want to know is why the trade down? Their pick came in crazy fast at 17. Did they think he'd still be there or who was the other guy they liked?
I'm still going after another CB, make sure no Mills or Bryant on this team! I also like the idea of taking a CB to be our FS, with Jones as the backup plan.
Is anyone really worried that Bill can't mold a guy with the best coverage skills in the draft? I haven't been this excited about a first round pick in a while.
Part of me wants to find a LB bad now, one with speed. It's the final piece if you want a truly elite D. I hated Trenton Simpson when he was a first round guy. Heck I'm not huge on him in the 2nd, yet maybe trade up from the 3rd if he's still there. Not a great LB class. Sanders would be nice, yet he misses so many tackles. Even if they wait later and just get a sub package guy who can play special teams. You need speed at LB in the worst way.
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Post by texs31 on Apr 28, 2023 13:02:23 GMT -5
Even more confusing on the trade back is that Howe is reporting they tried to trade UP for him. Deal fell through.
Reassessed the board at 14 and felt they could trade back.
DOES suggest there were multiple guys unless they had serious Intel that Jets and Commanders didn't like Gonzalez.
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Post by texs31 on Apr 28, 2023 13:04:57 GMT -5
Reasonable chance he doesn't get past the Lions at 18 so that could explain why they did NOT hesitate at 17.
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Post by rasimon on Apr 28, 2023 13:28:46 GMT -5
I'm still going after another CB, make sure no Mills or Bryant on this team! I also like the idea of taking a CB to be our FS, with Jones as the backup plan. .... Part of me wants to find a LB bad now, one with speed. It's the final piece if you want a truly elite D. I hated Trenton Simpson when he was a first round guy. Heck I'm not huge on him in the 2nd, yet maybe trade up from the 3rd if he's still there. Not a great LB class. Sanders would be nice, yet he misses so many tackles. Even if they wait later and just get a sub package guy who can play special teams. You need speed at LB in the worst way. Agree on getting another DB. Replacing Bryant and Mills should be high priority. And there will likely still be some talent left on the board in the 4th. Agree on LB. But its not a great class. Maybe Dorian Williams in the 3rd or 4th? He is very good in coverage. Needs work on the other aspects. Trenton Simpson in the 3rd sounds about right. |
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Post by texs31 on Apr 28, 2023 13:57:44 GMT -5
According to Jeremy Fowler, NE was one of the teams looking to trade back in to the 1st last night. So they might have "a guy" in mind. Let's see if they make a move to get him (and who that is).
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 28, 2023 14:17:48 GMT -5
I like some guys, just depends where you can get them as none are perfect. Simpson, Abdullah, Williams, Pappae, To'oTo'o and Sewell.
I absolutely love Yasir Abdullah, he's my Teddy Bruschi type guy. Unlike Bruschi, he's already played some MLB in College. Unreal production, gives you pass rushing out of the LB spot like with Hightower, Van Noy and Collins.
Williams has been called the best coverage LB in the draft, yet at Tulane. Sub player at LB unless he improves his run D and take on skills.
Pappae is a lot like Simpson, just doesn't have his coverage ability. Both are read and react type will LB. Yet late in draft, he's a good developmental/special teams guy.
To'oTo'o and Sewell are both like smaller upgrades to our current guys. Not the huge jump I'd like, neither is close to a sideline to sideline type guy, yet much faster than the slowest LB combo in the NFL. Only Sewell has the perfect size Bill usually likes.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 28, 2023 14:24:21 GMT -5
We can only speculate on who they wanted to trade back up for. Yet Harrison at LT have been unreal. We'll see, if it was someone like Mayer then they will be going hard tonight trying to trade up.
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Post by texs31 on Apr 28, 2023 14:42:04 GMT -5
For no reason other that the history of BB having different grades than the "consensus" I wonder if it's someone more like Bergeron.
Pre draft I was hearing he was getting some 1st rd love.
Add - its probably not wrong to say that this means I'm coming off my high from last night and expecting to be as disappointed in today as I was elated about yesterday.
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Post by scottysmalls on Apr 28, 2023 15:19:36 GMT -5
It would also make sense to trade up if they liked Levis, given the extra year of control which might be especially useful for a QB who isn't guaranteed to start year 1.
Personally hope it's Mayer, absolutely love him. Would like in general to grab some offensive players today.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Apr 28, 2023 15:30:51 GMT -5
They need tackles more than anything and they take a CB? OurLads projects the Patriots OL #1 in AFCE and 10th in NFL. Trent Brown had an erratic year in 2022 due to missed assignments and penalties (we can't put some of that on the coaching?) but he was never physically outmatched. He is still a very good tackle. The Riley Reiff signing has gotten some criticism, perhaps rightfully so. I haven't seen much of his play. But former NFL QB Jim Miller -- a sort of Chicago Bears equivalent of Scott Zolak (he's been the analyst on the postgame show for several years) -- said Wednesday on his SirusXM show that Reiff had a good year last year for the Bears. Maybe the criticism of the OL is a bit overstated? |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 28, 2023 15:49:27 GMT -5
www.nfl.com/prospects/matthew-bergeron/32004245-5210-0937-e984-90feb04718ccIf it was Bergeron, who has the starts, experience and things like team captain Bill loves. Are we thinking RT and hope we can work on his pass protection to then move him to LT? I'm sure Bill loves his run blocking, yet for me keeping pressure off of Mac Jones has to be #1, not run blocking. If it was Will Levis they wanted, Bill likely trades the first and 2nd needed and gets his QB. You pay that price for a QB you love all day long. I really like Will Levis, his drop in stats was just like Josh Allen's, a bunch of talent left for NFL and those teams don't have talent stockpiled like the top teams. Yet picking Will Levis hurts Mac Jones and just creates drama. If you had a trade lined up for Mac Jones, again you make that trade happen for a QB. I love the guy and I don't think I could taken him at 46, though that would be interesting.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Apr 28, 2023 16:07:25 GMT -5
Phil Perry had some great anecdotes on Bergeron on one of his podcasts. Seems everyone loves this guy. But some question if he has requisite athleticism to play tackle at NFL level.
Mauch seems in a similar category. Versatile tough gamer who's played across the line ( took up center at Senior Bowl practice week) so he won't bust, but can he do OT at a professional level?
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Post by costpet on Apr 28, 2023 16:08:43 GMT -5
When Brady was here, they always had a fullback back to protect him. Last year they had none. They might draft a blocking back in the later rounds for more protection. Just a thought. Plus they could use a punter at some point.
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Post by rasimon on Apr 28, 2023 16:18:30 GMT -5
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 28, 2023 16:38:19 GMT -5
If you want skill from your fullback, Luepke is clearly the best. Bills never really used fullbacks as skilled players though.
Monte Pottebaum 6'1" 246, former LB at Iowa that moved to fullback. He's strictly a blocker, yet the violent type, yet also good in pass protection. He just loves to hit people. Not likely to get drafted, if he does 7th round. I want the fullback that just loves to violently hit people.
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Post by rasimon on Apr 28, 2023 16:47:17 GMT -5
They need tackles more than anything and they take a CB? OurLads projects the Patriots OL #1 in AFCE and 10th in NFL. Trent Brown had an erratic year in 2022 due to missed assignments and penalties (we can't put some of that on the coaching?) but he was never physically outmatched. He is still a very good tackle. The Riley Reiff signing has gotten some criticism, perhaps rightfully so. I haven't seen much of his play. But former NFL QB Jim Miller -- a sort of Chicago Bears equivalent of Scott Zolak (he's been the analyst on the postgame show for several years) -- said Wednesday on his SirusXM show that Reiff had a good year last year for the Bears. Maybe the criticism of the OL is a bit overstated? I guess it depends what you mean by "good". "Good" as in somewhat better than average starter? or "good" as in he did not completely suck. PFF had 81 OTs who reached their snap minimum (looks like 340 snaps?) They had 3 rated in the 90s, 8 in the 80s, 24 in the 70s, 27 in the 60s, 12 in the 50s, 5 in the 40s, and 1 in the 30s. Reiff ranked #51 out of 81 with a 64.3. Trent Brown, Connor McDermott, and Calvin Anderson were also in the 60s. Reiff has been in the high 60s to low 70s since about 2016, so he has been pretty consistent. Not everyone agrees with the PFF rating system, so here is another way of thinking about it. Reiff just signed a one year contract for 2.7MM bonus + 1.45MM guaranteed salary + roster bonus of 850K + workout bonus of 100K. So that is 4.15MM guaranteed. Unless all the teams who needed a tackle are missing something, that is not indicating he is "good" as in somewhat better than average starter. I would say 'good" as in he is a somewhat below average starter. I would say he is ok. He doesn't need to be replaced immediately but you would like to upgrade if you could. I would love to have him as our #3 OT though. |
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Post by pedroelgrande on Apr 28, 2023 16:47:51 GMT -5
When Brady was here, they always had a fullback back to protect him. Last year they had none. They might draft a blocking back in the later rounds for more protection. Just a thought. Plus they could use a punter at some point. There is a Rutgers punter and apparently he is pretty good so maybe at some point Saturday he’ll get picked. |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Apr 28, 2023 16:54:07 GMT -5
When Brady was here, they always had a fullback back to protect him. Last year they had none. They might draft a blocking back in the later rounds for more protection. Just a thought. Plus they could use a punter at some point. There is a Rutgers punter and apparently he is pretty good so maybe at some point Saturday he’ll get picked. Rugby-style punter -- anyone know BB's thoughts on those types? Also, can he kickoff? |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Apr 28, 2023 16:59:57 GMT -5
OurLads projects the Patriots OL #1 in AFCE and 10th in NFL. Trent Brown had an erratic year in 2022 due to missed assignments and penalties (we can't put some of that on the coaching?) but he was never physically outmatched. He is still a very good tackle. The Riley Reiff signing has gotten some criticism, perhaps rightfully so. I haven't seen much of his play. But former NFL QB Jim Miller -- a sort of Chicago Bears equivalent of Scott Zolak (he's been the analyst on the postgame show for several years) -- said Wednesday on his SirusXM show that Reiff had a good year last year for the Bears. Maybe the criticism of the OL is a bit overstated?
I guess it depends what you mean by "good". "Good" as in somewhat better than average starter? or "good" as in he did not completely suck. PFF had 81 OTs who reached their snap minimum (looks like 340 snaps?) They had 3 rated in the 90s, 8 in the 80s, 24 in the 70s, 27 in the 60s, 12 in the 50s, 5 in the 40s, and 1 in the 30s. Reiff ranked #51 out of 81 with a 64.3. Trent Brown, Connor McDermott, and Calvin Anderson were also in the 60s. Reiff has been in the high 60s to low 70s since about 2016, so he has been pretty consistent. Not everyone agrees with the PFF rating system, so here is another way of thinking about it. Reiff just signed a one year contract for 5MM, 2.7MM bonus, 4.1MM guaranteed. Unless all the teams are missing something, that is not indicating he is "good" as in somewhat better than average starter. I would say 'good" as in he is a somewhat below average starter. Which is ok. I would love to have him as our #3 OT. I am not the one who said he had a good year. I'm reporting what was said. If I had to guess more exactly what he meant, I would say, "Solid starter last year." As to PFF, I don't ignore them or argue against them. I just don't accept what they say as gospel. If I recall correctly they loved Big Mike as a rookie OT. One of the top OT in the whole league. Bill loved his performance so much he moved him back to OG. So I don't know, it's very inexact. I just add information that seems might he useful when I hear it. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 28, 2023 17:25:04 GMT -5
The only way you say we have a top ten OL, is that you're throwing out last season and projecting guys to be much better. It's not crazy, Trent Brown has done this crap before when he's not in shape, Cole Strange can certainly take a huge leap. At the sametime It's not how I would rank an OL. That and the bar at OL has to be crazy low. That was likely the worst OL at pass blocking and run blocking I've seen in 20 years from a Patriots team.
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