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Patriots 2023 Offseason Thread
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Post by philarhody on May 4, 2023 21:23:10 GMT -5
Here’s a little reminder that Mike Gesicki is a better athlete than any pass catcher in this recent draft:
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,892 
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Post by cdj on May 4, 2023 23:03:10 GMT -5
Question. Instead of drafting a kicker and a punter and hoping they turn out okay why don't the Patriots just go out and sign the best kicker and the best punter in free agency. Kickers and punters are really cheap relative to other free agents. For example, Matt Gay was the best free agent kicker this offseason. He signed for 4 years 22.5 million. Last year he went 28/30 overall and 7/9 at 50 plus. His only misses were from over 50. PFF had him as the #4 rated kicker but the top four were all very very close. And he is only 29 years old. 5.6MM may seem like a lot but if you know you're getting an almost sure thing kicker, that seems a lot more valuable than some of the other dreck we signed. I'm not too upset about using the 192nd on a punter Baringer. There was not a lot of talent left on the board by that time anyways. But we don't know how well he will turn out either. Probably don’t want to pay a guy who hasn’t kicked in bad weather real money. Just my guess |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 5, 2023 11:18:58 GMT -5
The Patriots only have 9 players with a cap hit over what that kickers average cap # would be. Basically saving 5 million a year is huge. You have a lot of players coming due for new contracts. The only problem is Folk is still signed and that's going to be a crazy interesting battle.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 5, 2023 11:32:24 GMT -5
The Patriots only have 9 players with a cap hit over what that kickers average cap # would be. Basically saving 5 million a year is huge. You have a lot of players coming due for new contracts. The only problem is Folk is still signed and that's going to be a crazy interesting battle. I don’t think it will be interesting unless Ryland is bad. He doesn’t need to beat out Folk, he just needs to be competent enough to put out there. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 5, 2023 11:58:28 GMT -5
We'll see, yet Bill is all about guys competing and proving yourself every year, he literally said that a few months ago. Folk outside of windy conditions was still a darn good kicker last year. I've already seen people floating the idea of maybe keeping two kickers. No way Bill just hands him the keys, he has to earn them. Now he might not need to actually be better, yet it has to be close. That's a crazy high bar.
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Post by rasimon on May 5, 2023 15:00:00 GMT -5
Chat Sports suggested 5 FAs the Pats could be interested in now that the draft is over.
Marcus Peters CB age 30. His performance has been all over the place. No thanks.
Cameron Fleming OT age 30. Maybe a slight upgrade over Reilly Reiff? We have already cornered the market in mediocre/ok OL. stick with what we have.
Deion Jones LB age 28. He was excellent in 2018, but he has been atrocious the ladt two years. No thanks.
Jadeveon Clowney DE/OLB age 30. He has been fairly good over the last few years. Its not really an area of great need right now, but he could be an interesting rotation piece depending on what it costs.
Jarvis Landrey WR age 30. His last 2 years were just ok after a few very good years. He has played about 2/3 in the slot 1/3 out wide. Could be an slight upgrade over one of our existing WRs.
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Post by bensbrothersbrother on May 5, 2023 15:33:36 GMT -5
Re: Clowney -- word is he doesn't practice (knees). I'd imagine that's a non-starter.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 5, 2023 17:46:18 GMT -5
John Johnson as I'm fairly certain he's better than Mills and gives you size over the Jones.
Van Noy, why not? Let him compete for a roster spot.
Wynn, yeah not happening, yet he has multiple seasons of high end LT play. He's not getting the payday he wanted at this point. He has the potential to be a massive steal for some team.
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Post by bensbrothersbrother on May 5, 2023 18:35:00 GMT -5
99 99 98 HELLO! & GOODBYE!
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Post by bensbrothersbrother on May 5, 2023 18:35:39 GMT -5
99 99 98 HELLO! & GOODBYE! Oops. Wrong thread. |
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Post by costpet on May 6, 2023 8:36:44 GMT -5
I wonder, with O’Brien back, if they will use someone as a blocking back like they used to use a fullback. If Jones gets better protection this year, will he be much better? He’s not a scrambling QB, just sits in the pocket like Brady, so give him as much protection as possible. Then we’ll see how good he is.
I think that’s why BB drafted so many OLs.
Couple that with a better D that was pretty good last year and we might be better than expected.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,892
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Post by cdj on May 6, 2023 12:32:13 GMT -5
I wonder, with O’Brien back, if they will use someone as a blocking back like they used to use a fullback. If Jones gets better protection this year, will he be much better? He’s not a scrambling QB, just sits in the pocket like Brady, so give him as much protection as possible. Then we’ll see how good he is. I think that’s why BB drafted so many OLs. Couple that with a better D that was pretty good last year and we might be better than expected. 11-6 ceiling, 7-10 floor imo |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 6, 2023 12:35:02 GMT -5
I said I wouldn't do this, yet I can't help myself. I did love the draft overall, yet if you're taking over in the 4th round what do you do? More just for fun and I'll likely be wrong. I will try to act like it’s draft day and I don't know the results, yet knowing the results plays huge. Example I'm likely taking Scott, Perry or Hutchinson in the 4th, that's good value on my board. Yet you can't take 3 WRs and there's no reason to change our WR taken.
4th round 1st pick, lots of talent yet I take my favorite LT left on the board Carter Warren OT. Per the draft I'm not crazy as some scouts liked his tape more than some of the top 4 OTs. He's a battle tested LT with a ton of experience, which is something Bill loves.
4th round 2nd pick Yasir Abdullah LB. He's my Teddy Bruschi and Kyle Van Noy guy, yet he's a better athlete with unreal production. I just can't help myself, I add more speed and play making to the D.
5th round you can likely still take Jake Andrews, I take James Patterson OC Norte Dame. I've always preferred my OC come from the big programs. Can play all 3 interior OL positions and has a full year of starting at LG. He's my Ted Karras guy
6th round pick 214, the Speed pick I take Andrew Vorhees OG USC. He's likely a 3rd/4th round guy if healthy. Yet will miss the year, that's a plus in my book as three rookie interior OL making the team is going to be hard, especially when two are from small schools. Speed likely goes undrafted and you could sign him as a free agent. Also gives you a better path for undrafted guy to make the team.
You could have went a bunch of different ways Dewand Jones OT was almost my pick, yet the crap that came out about him likely means he's not a Patriot type player. The receivers Scott, Perry and Hutchinson, I really wanted to add Jalen Moreno-Cropper. Also had a hard time passing Tune, DTR and Hall at QB, I really like all 3, it's good value and Clayton Tune is a safe pick just starting to scratch the surface of his athletic abilities, which are so much better than our two QBs.
One thing I'll say, by attacking two of the deepest positions early, it made it hard to take advantage of the depth at those positions. I'm also disappointed in the undrafted free agent class. Yeah you made a bunch of picks, I expected a smaller class. Yet this is kinda crazy given how good Bill is with them. I would had paid for the Minnesota RB, Iowa FB, Trevor Reid LT and Cropper at WR. It's only money and it adds depth and upside. Also don't give me they don't have room, the roster has over 20 players that are easy cut candidates.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 7, 2023 8:52:55 GMT -5
I said I wouldn't do this, yet I can't help myself. I did love the draft overall, yet if you're taking over in the 4th round what do you do? More just for fun and I'll likely be wrong. I will try to act like it’s draft day and I don't know the results, yet knowing the results plays huge. Example I'm likely taking Scott, Perry or Hutchinson in the 4th, that's good value on my board. Yet you can't take 3 WRs and there's no reason to change our WR taken. 4th round 1st pick, lots of talent yet I take my favorite LT left on the board Carter Warren OT. Per the draft I'm not crazy as some scouts liked his tape more than some of the top 4 OTs. He's a battle tested LT with a ton of experience, which is something Bill loves. 4th round 2nd pick Yasir Abdullah LB. He's my Teddy Bruschi and Kyle Van Noy guy, yet he's a better athlete with unreal production. I just can't help myself, I add more speed and play making to the D. 5th round you can likely still take Jake Andrews, I take James Patterson OC Norte Dame. I've always preferred my OC come from the big programs. Can play all 3 interior OL positions and has a full year of starting at LG. He's my Ted Karras guy 6th round pick 214, the Speed pick I take Andrew Vorhees OG USC. He's likely a 3rd/4th round guy if healthy. Yet will miss the year, that's a plus in my book as three rookie interior OL making the team is going to be hard, especially when two are from small schools. Speed likely goes undrafted and you could sign him as a free agent. Also gives you a better path for undrafted guy to make the team. You could have went a bunch of different ways Dewand Jones OT was almost my pick, yet the crap that came out about him likely means he's not a Patriot type player. The receivers Scott, Perry and Hutchinson, I really wanted to add Jalen Moreno-Cropper. Also had a hard time passing Tune, DTR and Hall at QB, I really like all 3, it's good value and Clayton Tune is a safe pick just starting to scratch the surface of his athletic abilities, which are so much better than our two QBs. One thing I'll say, by attacking two of the deepest positions early, it made it hard to take advantage of the depth at those positions. I'm also disappointed in the undrafted free agent class. Yeah you made a bunch of picks, I expected a smaller class. Yet this is kinda crazy given how good Bill is with them. I would had paid for the Minnesota RB, Iowa FB, Trevor Reid LT and Cropper at WR. It's only money and it adds depth and upside. Also don't give me they don't have room, the roster has over 20 players that are easy cut candidates. They have 89 guys on the roster. Some of those late round picks are normal UDFAs like Speed and Bolden. Super toolsy defensive backs with huge upsides due to their physical package. Let’s say they had only 9’picks and they added the last 3 guys (Douglas, Bolden and speed) as UDFAs then we’d look at it differently |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 8, 2023 12:18:25 GMT -5
I don't get that argument, Bill almost always keeps a full roster. Look who a bunch of these guys are. Guys signed to future deals aren't the same as guys signed to legit deals. Rjp are you making the argument that guys like JJ Taylor should have stopped us from going after top undrafted RBs?
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Post by rjp313jr on May 8, 2023 18:43:32 GMT -5
I don't get that argument, Bill almost always keeps a full roster. Look who a bunch of these guys are. Guys signed to future deals aren't the same as guys signed to legit deals. Rjp are you making the argument that guys like JJ Taylor should have stopped us from going after top undrafted RBs? I’m saying they are already bringing at least 15 rookies into camp… how many do they normally bring in? That’s over 16% of your roster. Still have another spot too. I’m not too upset they didn’t bring in another rookie back this year tho. |
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Post by texs31 on May 9, 2023 6:56:43 GMT -5
Not to jump in on the debate but a point of clarification. They do not currently have a roster spot available as they wait for Jun 1 to process DMac's retirement.
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Post by texs31 on May 9, 2023 8:23:25 GMT -5
Some quick thoughts following some early roster projections by the usual suspects:
QB - Mac and Bailey are locks. Do they need a developmental QB (who can also serve as the mobile guy to practice against) enough to use up a 53-Man? If not, can Malik make it to the PS (nobody drafted him so, unless he has a great camp, he probably can).
RB - Typically they keep 4 RBs and Stevenson and Strong are locks. So Robinson, Montgomery and K Harris are competing. Camp performance pending, I can see arguments for each one.
WR - Parker, JSS, Bourne and Thornton probably aren't getting cut. Probably leaves 1 spot and current projections seem to put Douglas in the lead (likely based on the fact he's the type of Slot we've always had success with). Unless he's a nightmare, would like Boutte to, at least, get the Foxboro Flu treatment.
TE - I can see a rationale for not making a high pick at the T position (during the draft (Brown/Reiff current, "coaching up" potential of Anderson, Sow potentially fitting there) but not getting a TE (especially given the depth) seems like a miss. There is an argument that we only have 1 who is expected to make the team (based on all the talk that Gesicki is more like a big WR) and NONE signed for next year. There WILL be guys on tne PS and Lumpkin has some physical traits.
OL - Not going to address everyone so a few comments. If Anderson is the primary swing and Sow projects with T versatility, does McDermott have a role? If it comes down to him vs Mafi, I'd rather the rookie gets the spot with McDermott a PS candidate. Lazar opined that Jake Andrews (a roster "lock" to others) could get the Foxboro Flu treatment given he's a C only and Ferentz and/or Russey could make it to the PS to backup David Andrews if needed.
DL (including Edge) - Some guys fit as both DL and Edge so including them in the same group. I think Ekuale is a better player than Carl Davis but, if White can fill Ekuale's role (backup inside rush), Davis' role as a pure NT might have more value to this group. Curious to see what they might get out of Perkins but would think he's clearly on the outside looking in.
LB - At a minimum, Mapu would seem to replace Mack Wilson (who could probably make it to the PS). Hopefully, he pushes Tavai to a backup role.
DBs - Grouping them because I want to address Bryant and Mills together. Despite the reservations of many here, I'm guessing at least 1 makes the team (BB will probably value their positional versatility). Many still talk about Bledsoe's potential. His Camp could dictate if BOTH Bryant and Mills make it or just 1.
P - Barringer
K - Could be interesting to see how they handle this. Ryland is making the team (unless he goes to IR). So would they keep 2 given Folk was still productive? Would they have Folk on the PS?
LS - Cardona
ST - Slater, Board and Schooler would seem to be locks. If healthy, Cody Davis is a top guy. But, is he healthy? Mitchell has upside (definitely on ST, not sure if they still consider him a potential guy on D). Webb showed some last year. Obviously, some of the young DBs could make the team if they show here.
Definitely have an uptick in talent. Interested to see how it all fits.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 9, 2023 13:14:04 GMT -5
Patriots made 10 picks last year, brought in 8 undrafted guys. Three made the team. So I don't know why anyone would act like 15 rookies is a ton. 2021 8 draft picks, 22 undrafted guys, for 30 rookies. Do I need to keep going? 15 isn't high, it's on the low side.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 9, 2023 14:19:03 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on May 9, 2023 14:31:19 GMT -5
I like Lazar but saying Jake Andrews is a center only is piss poor analyzing at this point. Guy started at guard 2 straight years before moving to center last year. If camp starts and they only play him at center then fine, but at this point there’s no reason to think he won’t be looked at both places which is typical of a backup center (see Karras).
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,892
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Post by cdj on May 9, 2023 14:39:08 GMT -5
I don’t think Bourne is a lock to make the team given what happened last year with him
I hope that’s not the case because I think he’s talented
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Post by rjp313jr on May 9, 2023 14:42:22 GMT -5
I don't get that argument, Bill almost always keeps a full roster. Look who a bunch of these guys are. Guys signed to future deals aren't the same as guys signed to legit deals. Rjp are you making the argument that guys like JJ Taylor should have stopped us from going after top undrafted RBs? I’m saying they are already bringing at least 15 rookies into camp… how many do they normally bring in? That’s over 16% of your roster. Still have another spot too. I’m not too upset they didn’t bring in another rookie back this year tho. So they normally bring in 2-5 more rookies?… one spot is tied up because of McCourty… sure i wouldn’t mind them cutting certain guys but it’s not like they ignored the rookie class this year. It’s also possible they tried to get certain guys and couldn’t so decided they would prefer to keep someone they are comfortable with and who they know can be part of their PS. |
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Post by bensbrothersbrother on May 9, 2023 14:44:56 GMT -5
Patriots made 10 picks last year, brought in 8 undrafted guys. Three made the team. So I don't know why anyone would act like 15 rookies is a ton. 2021 8 draft picks, 22 undrafted guys, for 30 rookies. Do I need to keep going? 15 isn't high, it's on the low side.Right. Which might suggest a greater satisfaction with the incumbents than in prior years? |
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Post by rjp313jr on May 9, 2023 14:46:50 GMT -5
I don’t think Bourne is a lock to make the team given what happened last year with him I hope that’s not the case because I think he’s talented I hear ya but rolling with Juju, Parker and 3 unknowns is a bad move especially with the “vets” injury histories. If Douglas and Boutte show real promise then they need to keep 6 receivers for once especially if only carrying 2 TEs. For the love of god don’t carry so many special teams only guys |
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