Patriots 2023 Offseason Thread

Well that's a projection that shows Brown bouncing back and Strange taking a big leap forward. They both got abused in a bunch of games last year. Projections said Hernandez would bounce back and he was worse than ever. That doesn't happen, you're right back to last year with 3 holes on your OL. Everyone thought last years line was going to be darn near elite.

Also run blocking was also a huge issue last year, Stevenson was a miracle worker in many games. A good running games helps open up things for Mac in the passing game. You can't do good play action in games you can't run the ball.

That being said it could certainly turn out that way. I'll believe it when the reports from training camp start conforming it.

Do you watch the games?

For example I remember Strange getting abused middle of the year, not end of the year. Bears game, both jets games and Colts game, he got pulled from multi games. PFF grades players by watching tape and grading each play, his grade is in the 50s. He had his moments, yet he also got abused. I don't know if you don't like the word, yet when you get pulled from multiple games what do you call it? It wasn't he was injured either. 5th most sacks allowed at his position and many more hurries and QB hits. Why I had him rated 3rd round even though I listed him as best fit in draft for LG, small time college guy who didn't see athletes like those in NFL. He's likely better, the question is how much better. Just remember his issues weren't just pass blocking either, also run blocking, same goes for Brown.

Trent Brown certainly got abused, 8 sacks, then tons more hurries and QB hits. He would have also been pulled if they actually had anyone to take his place. I have no idea what you mean by holds up physically in any match up, if you watched him last year that just seems like a crazy statement. Again run blocking also was an issue. He looked slow and out of shape, which lead to a ton of penalties also as he tried to compensate for that.

I'd also point out Brown had a bad finish the year before in pass blocking at RT, no sacks yet tons of hurries and QB hits.

LIke I said both could certainly improve, it's just not a given. I'm more worried about Brown than Strange. It's not my imagination either, it's backed up by PFF grades who watched every play those two took last year.

Like many here I watch every snap of every game (sometimes more than once). Unlike many here I take PFF grades with a grain of salt, for many reasons, some of which I've previously catalogue and have no desire to revisit.

But: "who watched every play" /= "knows what happened/should have happened on every play."

I consider PFF a useful, sometimes instructive tool. Not an endpoint of discussion. Not a weapon to enforce my point of view.

PFF ranks Jalen Ramsey #9 -- did they watch him play every snap? Every snap I watched he was giving up completions (his passer rating against was 99 something). He ranked 40th in man to man snaps (and middlin' in many others) yet he's #9th best? I'd take Jon Jones over him in a second.

But I don't have sufficient knowledge or data to determine how to accurately assess Jalen Ramsey's 2022 performance. I just wonder about the devout reliance on theirs.

As to Trent: how many of those 8 sacks allowed was he flat beaten (overpowered or out-finessed) and how many were "team sacks" (Mac or Bailey scrambling left & being stopped short of the LoS) or line call screw-ups? I can count on one hand the number of times I recall TB getting blown up or overpowered.

As to Cole Strange getting "pulled from multiple games":

Week 1 he played 49 snaps (86%);
Weeks 2-7 he played 100% of snaps;
Week 8 he played 66 snaps (85%);
Week 9 he played 15 snaps (24%);
Week 10-17 he played 100% of snaps.

One of the beat guys did a Felger for Richard Seymour & suggested a medical issue in week 8 or 9 -- I don't recall which reporter and I'm unsure which week (regrettably, I consume a LOT of content). His snap counts support that inference, although certainly not definitively.

I'm not worried about either Strange or Brown performing adequately or better. Some matchups will be more favorable than others. Matt Light wasn't perfect every week, every matchup either. But as a group, assuming RT gets settled satisfactorily, the OL should be a strength relative to other teams in our division. (and I'm very optimistic about the depth)

nesn.com/2022/11/how-patriots-bill-belichick-handled-question-cole-strange-benching/

Strange was benched 3 times last year and you can clearly see no talk of injuries, it was his play. Which did improve as the season went on. Just like in senior bowl, big huge guys with speed were an issue. He's never played against guys like that. I've got the Jets games circled as a benchmark for him

I'm so confused, if you watch every snap why are we even having this discussion? This isn't I just made stuff up, it's been well talked about in Boston media for a long-time. So far there's been one person who thinks Trent Brown was good last year!

The line got so bad they kept changing the offense to multiple types of quick release dink and dunk passes to protect Mac Jones. Which then caused him to go crazy and act like a teenager. They had no choice because at that point both tackles were playing like garbage and Strange was struggling. It was the worst OL play I've seen in likely 20 years. Early Brady years or even back to the Bledsoe days. It was horrible pass protection and run blocking.

We had a whole debate why Zappe looked better and a huge part was his ability to move around when pressured to make throws. Where last year Mac Jones basically just took off and ran with the ball. It's why they brought in another LT who started games last year, yet he's on the non football list for something and not yet practicing.

As to Wynn, as an example why people get confused. As a LT he was darn good for years, injuries being his biggest issues. He can't play on the other side, just like Onwenu can't play LG, yet is an all pro level RG. It’s rather common for a lot of players. If he plays LT for Dolphins that's a very good signing, he plays RT then it's not.

nesn.com/2022/11/patriots-trent-brown-reveals-message-struggling-cole-strange/

They all say the same thing, he's benched for his play and it's the games and stretch I remember. I find no listings of injuries and I don't remember any talk about them either. 

You make my point, you didn't think he was a bad player. You question his PFF grade, you question his sacks wanting to blame it on something else. The truth is, if they didn't switch up the offense he would have given up many more sacks! He was a bad player that was helped by running an offense that ran tons of short plays to protect the OL. 

Like I keep saying doesn't mean they'll be bad again this year, yet let's stop trying to rewrite history on last year. Last year is why most Patriots fans are worried, we've never seen Trent Brown look like that. We haven't seen OL play that bad in a long-time.

He was my top choice, get it done.

Vet min + signing bonus + PT incentives = Lovely!

Alas.

Zeke and Mac got dinner together in the seaport tonight

Elliott has made over $70m in his career. If he’s been relatively smart with his money then may he doesn’t want his brains to get beat in for relatively short money. Normally, I’d agree but he’s a high draft pick who also got a lucrative second contract already so it add another possible layer for him than maybe some other RB.

They just have ri be careful how much they spend since Rhomandre will be a FA.

Sony Michel retiring

nfltraderumors.co/rams-rb-sony-michel-retiring-from-nfl/