redsox04071318champs
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Always hoping to make my handle even longer...
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 16, 2023 17:28:47 GMT -5
Well, it's not like the Patriots needed help at the wide receiver position....
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badfishnbc
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Doing you all a favor and leaving through the gate in right field since 2012.
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Post by badfishnbc on Jul 16, 2023 19:22:14 GMT -5
Changes nothing. In no corner of the multiverse did I expect the Pats to get him. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 17, 2023 10:12:03 GMT -5
I'm perfectly fine with this, I'm more worried about OT and backup RB. The OL was a mess last year, so far Brown basically waited to after mini camp to start training and Reiff was with backups. We also missed Harris when he went down. We could use a true power runner. Depending how camp starts I'm watching the Bengals LT they want to trade, I'm just not trading Dugger. More like Brown, Reiff or Bourne, yet let's see what happens in training camp first.
I wouldn't be against getting Elliott, he's a tough runner. He's also been a better receiver than Harris was.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jul 17, 2023 13:06:53 GMT -5
Plenty of decent veteran RB’s still out there
Shoot Fournette is basically a poor man’s Stevenson at this point, he’s good if you want insurance. Cook may be able to bring a little more electricity than Fournette
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jul 17, 2023 14:13:53 GMT -5
Plenty of decent veteran RB’s still out there Shoot Fournette is basically a poor man’s Stevenson at this point, he’s good if you want insurance. Cook may be able to bring a little more electricity than Fournette One of the factors that would likely make Cook unattractive to BB, besides pay, is 24.2% of scrimmage carries that went for 0 yards or negative yards. This seems to suggest a homerun chaser, dancing & prancing, and not a guy getting what's blocked. Nice receiving option though. BB has reached out to Fournette before. Tough guy, reliable. But maybe he likes what he's seen from last year's two rookies? (I know I did). |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jul 17, 2023 14:18:08 GMT -5
I wouldn't be against getting Elliott, he's a tough runner. He's also been a better receiver than Harris was. Zeke has been very reliable in short yardage and the redzone. Some might remember how valuable Antowain Smith was back in the day -- virtually automatic on 3rd or 4th & short. |
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Post by GyIantosca on Jul 17, 2023 22:51:01 GMT -5
I hope Mayo is getting a bigger voice in this staff. What I really mean is I hope he is being listen too.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 18, 2023 11:44:28 GMT -5
Didn't Mayo basically get the Josh McDaniels package? Where Bill actually shows them everything from draft to signings to hirings, etc? Stick around a few more years and you'll be much more ready to be a headcoach.
I also think he has a big voice and is listened to.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 19, 2023 11:49:05 GMT -5
Fournette is working our for the Patriots, per Tom Pelissaro.
Jets announced they will be cutting Denzel Mims if they can't trade him.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 19, 2023 20:57:49 GMT -5
Fournette is working our for the Patriots, per Tom Pelissaro. Jets announced they will be cutting Denzel Mims if they can't trade him. Mims has been traded to the Lions. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 20, 2023 12:04:18 GMT -5
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jul 20, 2023 20:06:58 GMT -5
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Post by rasimon on Jul 22, 2023 19:42:44 GMT -5
The DHop signing seems to have pushed Bedard and Cattles over the edge. Their contention is that Bill refuses to invest in offense, and the DHop non-signing is just another example of this failing. I don't think that is the problem.
From Over the Cap, the Pats are currently spending 103MM on Defense, 99MM on Offense and 12MM on Special Teams. Those are my calcs, not including players no longer on roster. For STs I counted kickers, p[unters, long snappers, and a few gunners - you can argue about whether the gunners should count against O or D. But they are not massively underinvested in O.
Secondly, looking at their drafts, 2017 to present (why 2017? I will get to that), and value each pick by their Jimmy Johnson points, they have invested 5216 JJ points on Offense, 4801 JJ points on Defense, and 139 JJ points on Special Teams. They have actually spent more draft capital on O than on D.
The problem is that their drafting since 2017 has sucked. Since 2017 (inclusive) they have drafted 6 players in the 1st round, 7 in the 2nd round, 11 in the 3rd, 10 in the 4th, 6 in the 5th, 15 in the 6th, and 8 in the 7th - for a total of 63 players. If you weight each player drafted by the number of years that he has been eligible to play since being drafted (so 2023 draftees have 0 years, 2022 draftees 1 year, 2021 draftees 2 years, etc) those 63 players have been eligible to play 165 total player years. Of those 165 player years they have 2 Pro Bowl appearances: Mac Jones 1, Jake Bailey 1. The Mac Jones pick was a bit questionable, but he was pretty good that year. Were there other draftees who were overlooked and should have been Pro Bowlers? Maybe Onwenu? But the point is its just difficult to win when you don't draft stars.
Gunner Olsewski and JC Jackson each made one Pro Bowl but they were signed as UDFAs.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 23, 2023 12:32:01 GMT -5
I can't think of a worst way of judging drafts than saying they are crap based on pro bowls!
The much better way is are they impactful players. Onwenu, Dugger and Uche are all impactful players. Stevenson and Harris were impactful players. Strange, Jack Jones and Marcus Jones were impactful at times last year and are all likelybetter next year. Barmore when healthy is an impactful player. The current draft has a bunch that likely will be and Gonzalez is likely the best rookie CB we've had since Ty Law or McCourty, heck he might be better than both. The recent drafting isn't an issue, it was the drafts years back.
I really like this team. Yeah I'd like a little more RB depth, though only our OT scare me. Especially considering Brown didn't start working out till after mini camp. That's the position I'm watching and where you might want to look at signing or trading for a player.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jul 23, 2023 12:59:23 GMT -5
I can't think of a worst way of judging drafts than saying they are crap based on pro bowls! Reminder: Derek (the statue) Jeter won FIVE GOLD GLOVES. |
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Post by Montana Lemonious-Craig on Jul 23, 2023 18:28:22 GMT -5
The pro bowl has been pointless for a long time, but Tyler Huntley making it as an alternate while accounting for 3 total touchdowns in 6 games took any shred of legitimacy it had left.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jul 24, 2023 11:11:12 GMT -5
What's the vibe heading into camp? I see this as a 9-8 type team and on the fringes of the playoffs again. Too many guys need to operate at their 80th percentile outcomes for this to feel like an AFC Champ Contender. I think the Defense could be really good but has some downside in the secondary with D-Mac gone and Jack Jones who knows where. I think the offense will be serviceable and at times dynamic, but get stalled at key times. Special Teams progress would actually help turn a game or two from last year's outcomes.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jul 24, 2023 14:36:28 GMT -5
What's the vibe heading into camp? I see this as a 9-8 type team and on the fringes of the playoffs again. Too many guys need to operate at their 80th percentile outcomes for this to feel like an AFC Champ Contender. I think the Defense could be really good but has some downside in the secondary with D-Mac gone and Jack Jones who knows where. I think the offense will be serviceable and at times dynamic, but get stalled at key times. Special Teams progress would actually help turn a game or two from last year's outcomes. 11-6 ceiling, 7-10 floor imo Record will depend on 3rd down success and ST. |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jul 24, 2023 15:15:50 GMT -5
It seems the Kelce brothers have been everywhere this offseason & I've been totally fully sick of them.
Then Julian Edelman went on their podcast. Wow, this is a fun listen. Edelman with some GREAT impressions & anecdotes. And the Kelce boys show out.
Likely NSFW
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 24, 2023 16:41:24 GMT -5
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jul 24, 2023 17:42:01 GMT -5
And Jalen Hurd, whom I think a lot of people thought would pop in SF but was injured. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 25, 2023 9:38:14 GMT -5
Way too early to tell about record projections given all the coaching changes and the big question marks. Things like OL with a new OL coach. Very wide range of outcomes. New offensive coordinator with new talent and a lot of young players. No McCourty for the first time in forever, who replaces him is going to be huge. Nevermind do they still play a single deep safety now? What happens with Jack Jones? Who takes a Uche type leap? Heck can Uche become more of a full-time player? Can Dugger finally put it all together and become one of the best safeties in football? What about Barmore? Are first 3 picks this year? RB health and depth.
The defense should be good, it more like how good. Chance at elite for the first time in years if certain things happen.
Offense has a much wider range, mainly because of OL. Range of bad to well above average. With an emphasis on Jones finally doing well versus good teams and not just destroying bad ones.
Special teams which was a disaster last year, new punter, new kicker, bunch of new special team specialists. Camp battle of Jones versus Douglas for return duties.
Way too early for me to give decent answers. I will say I'm excited and it might be one of the more meaningful training camps in years.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jul 25, 2023 9:54:01 GMT -5
Yeah you could tell me they’re picking 8th or you could tell me they’re picking 24th in the 1st round next year and I’d believe you on both
ST should be better, defense should be solid, offense should be better. That’s all I know
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jul 26, 2023 11:18:24 GMT -5
They need tackles more than anything and they take a CB? OurLads projects the Patriots OL #1 in AFCE and 10th in NFL. Trent Brown had an erratic year in 2022 due to missed assignments and penalties (we can't put some of that on the coaching?) but he was never physically outmatched. He is still a very good tackle. The Riley Reiff signing has gotten some criticism, perhaps rightfully so. I haven't seen much of his play. But former NFL QB Jim Miller -- a sort of Chicago Bears equivalent of Scott Zolak (he's been the analyst on the postgame show for several years) -- said Wednesday on his SirusXM show that Reiff had a good year last year for the Bears. Maybe the criticism of the OL is a bit overstated? I know The Doom & Gloom Crowd -- local Patriots media -- have portrayed the OL as a MAJOR area of concern, yet here is another national opinion (1st one film study, this one analytics) that sees it differently. Note the other 3 teams in the AFC East: /photo/1 |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jul 26, 2023 12:11:36 GMT -5
From PFF on 2022 QB play from a clean pocket: 5. MAC JONES, NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS
Clean-pocket passing grade: 89.0
Jones came from the same draft class as Trevor Lawrence, and it was Jones who led all quarterbacks from that group as a rookie with an 80.0 PFF grade. He took a step back last season under co-offensive coordinators Matt Patricia and Joe Judge. Unless you look at his stats from a clean pocket, he actually improved, jumping to an 89.0 passing grade from an 84.8 as a rookie. After all, standing from a clean pocket and playing within structure is where Jones thrives, dating back to his days at Alabama.
Jones made 20 big-time throws when kept clean, one of nine quarterbacks to record 20 or more. He paired that with just three turnover-worthy plays, bringing his turnover-worthy play rate to a league-leading 0.8%. Now, he will get to work with offensive coordinator Bill O’Brien. Jones can excel within the confines of a clean pocket, and expect him to bounce back in Year 3 with the third offensive coordinator of his young NFL career.Link to the whole article: www.pff.com/news/nfl-top-10-quarterbacks-clean-pocket-passing-grade-joe-burrow-patrick-mahomes-jalen-hurts |
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