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4/3-4/5 Red Sox vs. Pirates Series Thread
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 4, 2023 16:03:02 GMT -5
I can imagine very, very few situations in which I would not return the ball.
Sign a broken bat for me and take a photo and I'm good.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,659
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Post by cdj on Apr 4, 2023 16:09:59 GMT -5
You bet your ass I’m getting one of Doogies chains for that ball
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 4, 2023 16:10:45 GMT -5
I can imagine very, very few situations in which I would not return the ball. Sign a broken bat for me and take a photo and I'm good. That's why I'm curious on the ask and offer. If they asked for literally that and still got turned down I would be annoyed too. I doubt that's the situation and the team is that disconnected with their fans, but I want to know. I'm willing to speculate that they want 10s of thousands, if not more.
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,845
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Post by shagworthy on Apr 4, 2023 16:15:38 GMT -5
You bet your ass I’m getting one of Doogies chains for that ball and best thing about this comment is you know 100% Doogie would give one up for his teammate.
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Post by incandenza on Apr 4, 2023 16:19:19 GMT -5
I don't understand why the players' fetishization of these souvenir balls is presumed normal and good, but if a fan (in this case a child!) wants to keep the ball (which is literally their own property!) it's presumed selfish. Who's to say the ball inherently has more value for Masataka Yoshida - a fully grown adult who has millions of dollars - than it does for a child who will almost definitely never have this good fortune again in his lifetime? And for that matter we don't actually know that Yoshida cares one whit about it.
In fact, if the Red Sox were offering fair compensation for the ball, then the kid was being the opposite of selfish - he wasn't trying to cash out; he just want a keepsake of the once-in-a-lifetime moment.
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Post by taiwansox on Apr 4, 2023 16:20:41 GMT -5
I can imagine very, very few situations in which I would not return the ball. Sign a broken bat for me and take a photo and I'm good. That's why I'm curious on the ask and offer. If they asked for literally that and still got turned down I would be annoyed too. I doubt that's the situation and the team is that disconnected with their fans, but I want to know. I'm willing to speculate that they want 10s of thousands, if not more. Ball is worthless now since it wasn’t authenticated…some petty crap, I don’t think MFY fans would have even done that lol Also apparently someone gave the ball to the kid??
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Post by bluechip on Apr 4, 2023 16:23:31 GMT -5
I can imagine very, very few situations in which I would not return the ball. Sign a broken bat for me and take a photo and I'm good. That's why I'm curious on the ask and offer. If they asked for literally that and still got turned down I would be annoyed too. I doubt that's the situation and the team is that disconnected with their fans, but I want to know. I'm willing to speculate that they want 10s of thousands, if not more. I am also curious. A few signed bats? A signed jersey? A signed Pedro ball? The team can offer a lot more memorabilia than a regular season ball. If they’re thinking it’s worth something more, how would they authenticate it? And how much is that ball really worth? I think Yoshida is a good player, but it’s not like they caught Mike Trouts first career home run. How much would Hideki Matsui‘s (just looking for a solid NPB player who came over mid career and was good) first home run fetch at auction? I am not sure, but I am guessing not that much….
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nomar
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Posts: 11,501
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Post by nomar on Apr 4, 2023 16:24:14 GMT -5
If you don’t return a ball to a player you’re a huge loser; case closed.
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,845
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Post by shagworthy on Apr 4, 2023 16:31:20 GMT -5
That's why I'm curious on the ask and offer. If they asked for literally that and still got turned down I would be annoyed too. I doubt that's the situation and the team is that disconnected with their fans, but I want to know. I'm willing to speculate that they want 10s of thousands, if not more. I am also curious. A few signed bats? A signed jersey? A signed Pedro ball? The team can offer a lot more memorabilia than a regular season ball. If they’re thinking it’s worth something more, how would they authenticate it? And how much is that ball really worth? I think Yoshida is a good player, but it’s not like they caught Mike Trouts first career home run. How much would Hideki Matsui‘s (just looking for a solid NPB player who came over mid career and was good) first home run fetch at auction? I am not sure, but I am guessing not that much…. Yeah, it's a hedge bet that isn't really wise. Yoshi would have to go on to have an Ichiro like career for that ball to really have an intrinsic value, and 100% that ball is getting used in the yard next week. I have 3 kids, I recently found one of the balls I got signed by all of the 86 Red Sox in the yard in a comical fashion. My six year old asked me to play catch and when I caught the ball I was like, hold on a second.... Is that Wade Boggs signature?
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Post by julyanmorley on Apr 4, 2023 16:37:58 GMT -5
I don't understand why the players' fetishization of these souvenir balls is presumed normal and good, but if a fan (in this case a child!) wants to keep the ball (which is literally their own property!) it's presumed selfish. Who's to say the ball inherently has more value for Masataka Yoshida - a fully grown adult who has millions of dollars - than it does for a child who will almost definitely never have this good fortune again in his lifetime? And for that matter we don't actually know that Yoshida cares one whit about it.
In fact, if the Red Sox were offering fair compensation for the ball, then the kid was being the opposite of selfish - he wasn't trying to cash out; he just want a keepsake of the once-in-a-lifetime moment.
Home run ball:
Means something to kid Means something to Yoshida Not actually worth $
Bevy of signed Red Sox memorabilia:
Means something to kid Means nothing to Red Sox Worth some $
So you can see why a trade makes sense here.
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Post by incandenza on Apr 4, 2023 16:45:46 GMT -5
I don't understand why the players' fetishization of these souvenir balls is presumed normal and good, but if a fan (in this case a child!) wants to keep the ball (which is literally their own property!) it's presumed selfish. Who's to say the ball inherently has more value for Masataka Yoshida - a fully grown adult who has millions of dollars - than it does for a child who will almost definitely never have this good fortune again in his lifetime? And for that matter we don't actually know that Yoshida cares one whit about it.
In fact, if the Red Sox were offering fair compensation for the ball, then the kid was being the opposite of selfish - he wasn't trying to cash out; he just want a keepsake of the once-in-a-lifetime moment.
Home run ball:
Means something to kid Means something to Yoshida Not actually worth $
Bevy of signed Red Sox memorabilia:
Means something to kid Means nothing to Red Sox Worth some $
So you can see why a trade makes sense here.
Why assume anything about what this stuff means to either of these people? The only thing we know for sure is that the ball means something to the kid. We don't know if it means anything to Yoshida, and we don't know if a pile of stuff from the Red Sox' locker room means anything to the kid.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Apr 4, 2023 16:49:12 GMT -5
Still no rainouts across MLB. Is this some kind of record? I figure this is the only place on the Internet where I could ask this question and get an answer. Did you learn nothing?
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Apr 4, 2023 16:57:50 GMT -5
Re: the defense--I've actually though Devers has looked pretty good to start. Not sure what happened on that 1st inning pop-up but seems like he's playing the grounders very well and looks smooth. Unfortunately there's a lot more to defense than fielding grounders; that part he's always been pretty good at. The issues are usually throws and mental errors.
He had three blunders in the first game alone. He cut a ball that would have hosed a runner at the plate, he wasn't in position to receive a throw from Kiké that would have cut down the lead runner at third (was ruled an error on Kiké because he threw the ball, but he threw it right over the base and Devers just wasn't ready), and there was one other one I can't think of at the moment. If he made either of the first two plays we might have won the game.
Yes, Devers is a Red Sox player for the next ten years…..warts and all…..hopefully future DH/3B….
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Post by bosoxnation on Apr 4, 2023 17:01:57 GMT -5
There’s no way i’m not barging for some good stuff. Give me Yoshida game used signed bat, Signed game worn jersey. Signed game worn batting gloves. Devers signed bat. Bello signed ball. Whitlock signed ball. And a team signed jersey with my name on the back number 2023. Oh and throw in opening day tickets next year same seat.
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Post by scottysmalls on Apr 4, 2023 17:09:59 GMT -5
Everyone here saying they would return the ball, of course I would too after getting something whatever out of it, but if you're the parents of this kid are you forcing him to return the ball? Like if the Red Sox offered tickets and a bat instead but he's saying that he just wants the ball you're telling him to get over it?
I can see both sides I guess but I don't think it's such a big deal if a little kid is selfish about a ball and his parents let him be.
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,845
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Post by shagworthy on Apr 4, 2023 17:11:27 GMT -5
Home run ball: Means something to kid Means something to Yoshida Not actually worth $ Bevy of signed Red Sox memorabilia: Means something to kid Means nothing to Red Sox Worth some $ So you can see why a trade makes sense here.
Why assume anything about what this stuff means to either of these people? The only thing we know for sure is that the ball means something to the kid. We don't know if it means anything to Yoshida, and we don't know if a pile of stuff from the Red Sox' locker room means anything to the kid. In fairness, it's not even reasonable to assume the ball meant **** to the kid either. They negotiated with the adults, not the child, and any decision would have to be made by the adults anyways. Masa isn't going to come out and say "That HR meant something to me" because he's a professional, but all the same, it is meaningful especially after the big change for him, and trying to prove he belongs in the MLB. Both sides loose here. It's just a poor parenting moment in my opinion, and honestly it really doesn't matter other than it illustrates how far as a society we've shifted as far as civil behavior.
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Post by terriblehondo on Apr 4, 2023 17:13:13 GMT -5
To me it is no big deal one way or the other. If I had hit it I would have wanted the ball. If it is a kid who had the ball and wanted to keep it I wouldn't lose any sleep about not having it either.
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Post by taiwansox on Apr 4, 2023 17:25:23 GMT -5
Why assume anything about what this stuff means to either of these people? The only thing we know for sure is that the ball means something to the kid. We don't know if it means anything to Yoshida, and we don't know if a pile of stuff from the Red Sox' locker room means anything to the kid. In fairness, it's not even reasonable to assume the ball meant **** to the kid either. They negotiated with the adults, not the child, and any decision would have to be made by the adults anyways. Masa isn't going to come out and say "That HR meant something to me" because he's a professional, but all the same, it is meaningful especially after the big change for him, and trying to prove he belongs in the MLB. Both sides loose here. It's just a poor parenting moment in my opinion, and honestly it really doesn't matter other than it illustrates how far as a society we've shifted as far as civil behavior. The parents today are straight out of casting from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. Kids dictate everything which coming from Taiwanese culture is unheard of lol. Also it’s materialistic, could have had a great memory from it (maybe met some players) and instead settled for a yarn ball bound with leather and stitches. Idk why this set me off so much, I don’t care about the ball as much as having a society where people can compromise and be generally considerate
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,659
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Post by cdj on Apr 4, 2023 17:27:09 GMT -5
Verdugo Devers Turner Yoshida Duvall Casas Hernandez McGuire Chang
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,845
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Post by shagworthy on Apr 4, 2023 17:35:54 GMT -5
In fairness, it's not even reasonable to assume the ball meant **** to the kid either. They negotiated with the adults, not the child, and any decision would have to be made by the adults anyways. Masa isn't going to come out and say "That HR meant something to me" because he's a professional, but all the same, it is meaningful especially after the big change for him, and trying to prove he belongs in the MLB. Both sides loose here. It's just a poor parenting moment in my opinion, and honestly it really doesn't matter other than it illustrates how far as a society we've shifted as far as civil behavior. The parents today are straight out of casting from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. Kids dictate everything which coming from Taiwanese culture is unheard of lol. Also it’s materialistic, could have had a great memory from it (maybe met some players) and instead settled for a yarn ball bound with leather and stitches. Idk why this set me off so much, I don’t care about the ball as much as having a society where people can compromise and be generally considerate I agree... I don't really care about the ball, it's more the precedent. Even if the ball had marginal meaning to the player, I know every one of my 3 kids would have instantly offered it up if asked, because we don't place a huge value on materialistic items in this household. This house is a ****show most times (Censored myself JMEI), with 3 kids who are on the spectrum, and one adult (myself) on it as well, but I try to instill in my kids to care about others.
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Post by yuchangclan on Apr 4, 2023 17:36:27 GMT -5
I don't understand why the players' fetishization of these souvenir balls is presumed normal and good, but if a fan (in this case a child!) wants to keep the ball (which is literally their own property!) it's presumed selfish. Who's to say the ball inherently has more value for Masataka Yoshida - a fully grown adult who has millions of dollars - than it does for a child who will almost definitely never have this good fortune again in his lifetime? And for that matter we don't actually know that Yoshida cares one whit about it.
In fact, if the Red Sox were offering fair compensation for the ball, then the kid was being the opposite of selfish - he wasn't trying to cash out; he just want a keepsake of the once-in-a-lifetime moment.
I think the fans fetishize it FOR the players in many cases. I have heard several cases like this where the player doesn’t really care and says something to the effect of “it belongs to the fan now”. I don’t think these zillionaire athletes care as much about a baseball as we think they do.
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Post by incandenza on Apr 4, 2023 17:53:59 GMT -5
Why assume anything about what this stuff means to either of these people? The only thing we know for sure is that the ball means something to the kid. We don't know if it means anything to Yoshida, and we don't know if a pile of stuff from the Red Sox' locker room means anything to the kid. In fairness, it's not even reasonable to assume the ball meant **** to the kid either. They negotiated with the adults, not the child, and any decision would have to be made by the adults anyways. Masa isn't going to come out and say "That HR meant something to me" because he's a professional, but all the same, it is meaningful especially after the big change for him, and trying to prove he belongs in the MLB. Both sides loose here. It's just a poor parenting moment in my opinion, and honestly it really doesn't matter other than it illustrates how far as a society we've shifted as far as civil behavior. My point, really, is just that we have no basis for judging anything in this scenario. I certainly am not going to decide anything about the parenting approach here, let alone derive evidence of broad social forces. (Get a beer in me and I will have plenty to say about the rampant degeneracy and selfishness of our society, and I'm sympathetic to what taiwansox says, but I'm not seeing enough to come to conclusions about that here.) And, in the absence of any further contextual knowledge, all we have is the fact that the kid owned a baseball that he chose not to trade for some other stuff. That's his decision to make.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 4, 2023 17:55:09 GMT -5
Everyone here saying they would return the ball, of course I would too after getting something whatever out of it, but if you're the parents of this kid are you forcing him to return the ball? Like if the Red Sox offered tickets and a bat instead but he's saying that he just wants the ball you're telling him to get over it? I can see both sides I guess but I don't think it's such a big deal if a little kid is selfish about a ball and his parents let him be. I mean, I'm not a parent (yet), but I imagine this would be a good teaching moment.
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Post by incandenza on Apr 4, 2023 17:57:37 GMT -5
I don't understand why the players' fetishization of these souvenir balls is presumed normal and good, but if a fan (in this case a child!) wants to keep the ball (which is literally their own property!) it's presumed selfish. Who's to say the ball inherently has more value for Masataka Yoshida - a fully grown adult who has millions of dollars - than it does for a child who will almost definitely never have this good fortune again in his lifetime? And for that matter we don't actually know that Yoshida cares one whit about it.
In fact, if the Red Sox were offering fair compensation for the ball, then the kid was being the opposite of selfish - he wasn't trying to cash out; he just want a keepsake of the once-in-a-lifetime moment.
I think the fans fetishize it FOR the players in many cases. I have heard several cases like this where the player doesn’t really care and says something to the effect of “it belongs to the fan now”. I don’t think these zillionaire athletes care as much about a baseball as we think they do. Yeah, like, why would they? They're on tv and stuff. There's no shortage of documentation of their exploits. Some people are sentimental collectors and some aren't, and again I just don't know why we'd presume the players' interest in the object should override the fan's.
Okay, 'nuff about that from me...
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Post by chrisfromnc on Apr 4, 2023 18:18:24 GMT -5
A competent first inning from Pivetta. I’ll take it.
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