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Post by manfred on Apr 11, 2023 19:56:30 GMT -5
Quick, someone tell me how many parks that is a home run in…
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Post by yuchangclan on Apr 11, 2023 19:56:40 GMT -5
Do you honestly see any scenario where Xander takes an offer that’s less than 10+ years? Yes. During spring training 2021 if the Sox had given him a Story like extension he would have taken it. Once it got to free agency, no, there was no way that 160 million contract was going to cut it. They lost him during spring training 2021. This is 100% true. Instead of taking care of their own, they presented Xander with the “Jon Lester special” to guarantee his departure. He wasn’t looking for a 10 year deal, nor did anyone think that was realistic for him at the time.
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Post by notstarboard on Apr 11, 2023 19:58:05 GMT -5
It was so damn foolish. And so they weren't even close to keeping this asset so what did they convert this asset into? Why a pick after the 4th round. Fantastic. He had a full no-trade clause, so they may not have had much of a choice even if they did want to punt, which they didn't.
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Post by taiwansox on Apr 11, 2023 19:59:16 GMT -5
Biggest question of the night is if Whitlock is a starter or not. I’ve been pretty vocal about having him as a reliever mainly because I didn’t believe in his slider, but the biggest issue is how much his fastball plays down as a starter. I’ve always liked Houck more as a starter even with his 3rd time through the order issues. For Houck, I’d use a lefty opener and have him come in after. Houck with a more consistent splitter will be lethal.
Whitlock is a 1.5 WAR reliever but really better than that since he’ll replace our worst relievers who are below replacement. Do we reasonably think he’ll be a 2 WAR starter when he hasn’t done it for an extended stretch above Double-A?
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Apr 11, 2023 20:00:25 GMT -5
If he were on the Rays he'd be a HoFer. Made Jeffery Springs look elite. but Bloom came from the org. so they likely aren't doing anything he doesn't know, i would guess. I am really suspect of our player development machine. Beni was the last homegrown prospect to pan out, and its not like the Rays and Dodgers haven’t been successful and had their draft spot impacted by that, but both clubs are leaps and bounds better at developing guys, both pitchers and position players. I think this group lives too much in the past successes on development, and it shows. You have to go back like 3 regimes to find a successful starter we developed (Clay, Lester). I think player development needs a major shakeup.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Apr 11, 2023 20:01:31 GMT -5
Not a good sign when so much of a game day thread is rehashing trades and contracts instead of game action.
I think we have to tip our hat to a Brasier shut down inning.
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Post by julyanmorley on Apr 11, 2023 20:02:03 GMT -5
but Bloom came from the org. so they likely aren't doing anything he doesn't know, i would guess. I am really suspect of our player development machine. Beni was the last homegrown prospect to pan out, and its not like the Rays and Dodgers haven’t been successful and had their draft spot impacted by that, but both clubs are leaps and bounds better at developing guys, both pitchers and position players. I think this group lives too much in the past successes on development, and it shows. You have to go back like 3 regimes to find a successful starter we developed (Clay, Lester). I think player development needs a major shakeup. There was one this offseason: theathletic.com/4349298/2023/03/29/red-sox-hiring-spree-staff/
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Post by bosoxnation on Apr 11, 2023 20:02:11 GMT -5
This is going to be a season discussing Xander all year isn't it. RS nation never appreciated the man like they should of. From the fans all the way to the front office. You don't know what you have until its gone. Now y'all don't have to complain that he isn't the best defensive SS in the league anymore.
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Post by notstarboard on Apr 11, 2023 20:03:16 GMT -5
Biggest question of the night is if Whitlock is a starter or not. I’ve been pretty vocal about having him as a reliever mainly because I didn’t believe in his slider, but the biggest issue is how much his fastball plays down as a starter. I’ve always liked Houck more as a starter even with his 3rd time through the order issues. For Houck, I’d use a lefty opener and have him come in after. Houck with a more consistent splitter will be lethal. Whitlock is a 1.5 WAR reliever but really better than that since he’ll replace our worst relievers who are below replacement. Do we reasonably think he’ll be a 2 WAR starter when he hasn’t done it for an extended stretch above Double-A? I think it's best to withhold judgment on Whitlock as a starter until he's fully back physically, which might take a few starts. I don't expect him to be sitting 92-93 with his fastball all year. I would be surprised if he can't be a ~ 2 WAR starter.
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Post by terriblehondo on Apr 11, 2023 20:03:31 GMT -5
I don't know if he is a starter but you have got to give him some time. 2 maybe 3 more starts until he is totally built up. Need to give him a chance to fail. I'd rather have Whitlock pitching 6 innings over 6 days in high leverage situations than once every 5. Gives you a chance to win 2+ games when he pitches instead of 1 best case every 5. He was elite at that role too. Yes very good as a reliever. If he can be that good as a starter we have an ace. An elite starter is worth more than an elite reliever. I don't know that he can be elite or good but I am willing to give him a chance to fail. What I saw last year didn't inspire confidence but he pitched hurt so you have to take that into account.
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Post by julyanmorley on Apr 11, 2023 20:04:21 GMT -5
This thread is one page away from talking about Bagwell for Andersen and the sale of Ruth
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,845
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Post by shagworthy on Apr 11, 2023 20:05:29 GMT -5
I am really suspect of our player development machine. Beni was the last homegrown prospect to pan out, and its not like the Rays and Dodgers haven’t been successful and had their draft spot impacted by that, but both clubs are leaps and bounds better at developing guys, both pitchers and position players. I think this group lives too much in the past successes on development, and it shows. You have to go back like 3 regimes to find a successful starter we developed (Clay, Lester). I think player development needs a major shakeup. There was one this offseason: theathletic.com/4349298/2023/03/29/red-sox-hiring-spree-staff/yeah, but a lot of the same admins are in charge of the new influx of people.
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Post by taiwansox on Apr 11, 2023 20:05:35 GMT -5
Biggest question of the night is if Whitlock is a starter or not. I’ve been pretty vocal about having him as a reliever mainly because I didn’t believe in his slider, but the biggest issue is how much his fastball plays down as a starter. I’ve always liked Houck more as a starter even with his 3rd time through the order issues. For Houck, I’d use a lefty opener and have him come in after. Houck with a more consistent splitter will be lethal. Whitlock is a 1.5 WAR reliever but really better than that since he’ll replace our worst relievers who are below replacement. Do we reasonably think he’ll be a 2 WAR starter when he hasn’t done it for an extended stretch above Double-A? I think it's best to withhold judgment on Whitlock as a starter until he's fully back physically, which might take a few starts. I don't expect him to be sitting 92-93 with his fastball all year. I would be surprised if he can't be a ~ 2 WAR starter. That’s fair but he was like 95-97 as a reliever when healthy, is that reasonable to expect as a starter? And his fastball usage is very heavy so a few mph makes a difference
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Post by terriblehondo on Apr 11, 2023 20:06:03 GMT -5
I am still pissed about the Bagwell deal. The Lyle for Cater too.
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Post by bosoxnation on Apr 11, 2023 20:06:30 GMT -5
Portland squad looking good. For a prospect site we have 4 minor league games going on right now and we didnt even hit page 2 of that thread yet our MLB team thats getting smoked is getting all the posts. Weird.
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Post by notstarboard on Apr 11, 2023 20:06:50 GMT -5
I think it's best to withhold judgment on Whitlock as a starter until he's fully back physically, which might take a few starts. I don't expect him to be sitting 92-93 with his fastball all year. I would be surprised if he can't be a ~ 2 WAR starter. That’s fair but he was like 95-97 as a reliever when healthy, is that reasonable to expect as a starter? And his fastball usage is very heavy so a few mph makes a difference I'm hoping he'll be more like 94-95. We'll see!
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Post by soxfansince67 on Apr 11, 2023 20:08:11 GMT -5
Here's the thing. Let's say Whitlock pitched a fine game and game up two runs. Like Pivetta's nice game last night. They would still be two losses.
Where are the runs going to come from? Paxton is going to come back, Bello is going to come back - but we just lost Duvall and there is no cavalry coming from the WooSox.
There is lots of concern about the pitching - but even before we played a game this year, it was the bats that had me worried.
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Post by manfred on Apr 11, 2023 20:10:07 GMT -5
Here's the thing. Let's say Whitlock pitched a fine game and game up two runs. Like Pivetta's nice game last night. Where are the runs going to come from? Paxton is going to come back, Bello is going to come back - but we just lost Duvall and there is no cavalry coming from the WooSox. There is lots of concern about the pitching - but even before we played a game this year, it was the bats that had me worried. It’s funny… they were just saying how this shows they miss Duvall and I was thinking… would he drive in 6 runs? 7-1 means everyone was bad.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 11, 2023 20:10:48 GMT -5
It was so damn foolish. And so they weren't even close to keeping this asset so what did they convert this asset into? Why a pick after the 4th round. Fantastic. He had a full no-trade clause, so they may not have had much of a choice even if they did want to punt, which they didn't. We'll never know but from watching him last year he seemed pretty miserable, resigned to the fact he wasn't coming back. With the Sox going nowhere my gut feeling is he would have waived his no trade clause, but I certainly can't prove that one way or the other. I think if he did get traded and turned it down I think that would have leaked out.
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Post by terriblehondo on Apr 11, 2023 20:12:45 GMT -5
Win the next 2 and split the series. It will all seem better then.
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Post by notstarboard on Apr 11, 2023 20:13:02 GMT -5
Casas' liner: 111 mph, .710 xBA, barrel. Also, Bobby's single is the third hardest hit ball hit tonight in any game so far - 114 mph.
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Post by taiwansox on Apr 11, 2023 20:13:18 GMT -5
First RBI of the series!
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 11, 2023 20:13:46 GMT -5
I am still pissed about the Bagwell deal. The Lyle for Cater too. They never should have lost Fisk, either;) I did like Rich Gedman, though, but Fisk was Fisk.
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Post by julyanmorley on Apr 11, 2023 20:13:49 GMT -5
One of my rules as a baseball observer is not to sound the alarm about any major league pitcher after they have a 5-0 strikeout to walk ratio in their first game of the season.
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Post by wildsox on Apr 11, 2023 20:14:20 GMT -5
Here's the thing. Let's say Whitlock pitched a fine game and game up two runs. Like Pivetta's nice game last night. Where are the runs going to come from? Paxton is going to come back, Bello is going to come back - but we just lost Duvall and there is no cavalry coming from the WooSox. There is lots of concern about the pitching - but even before we played a game this year, it was the bats that had me worried. It’s funny… they were just saying how this shows they miss Duvall and I was thinking… would he drive in 6 runs? 7-1 means everyone was bad. Lol. I was thinking if there is 1 positive it’s that Duvall wouldn’t haven’t made a difference if he was there
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