SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
4/10-4/13 Red Sox @ Rays Series Thread
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 12, 2023 21:43:30 GMT -5
This is kind of a meaningless tautology. It's a fair comment to throw onto this board, though. After an off-season of countless posts about bad luck (Man, that AL East is brutal!) and injuries in 2022, we're 12 games through 2023 and we're already seeing posts about bad luck and injuries. Bill Parcells: “You are what your record says you are.” There's always going to be an element of luck, random variations during a long baseball season. There will always be screaming 100 MPH line drives at fielders and 50 MPH bloopers that fall in. There will always be wind blown fly balls that just make it over the wall and 400 foot blasts that are snagged out of the bullpen. There will always be umpiring calls that make one shake their head. There will be well timed hits by slumping players and scorching hot players who can't get the big hit at the right time. There will be devastating injuries. There will be injuries that provide opportunities to guys who seize them. Thousands of these scenarios will unfold during a season and it's very unlikely going to work exactly 50% in favor of and 50% against. There's going to be some random variance but at the end of the day the best teams throughout all those trials will rise to the top and the others will fall by the wayside. It just is what it is. The good teams will take advantage of their situations and find a way to win and not so good teams won't. That's baseball.
|
|
|
Post by scottysmalls on Apr 12, 2023 21:55:20 GMT -5
Positives from tonight: Turner and Hernandez getting some hits is promising, Verdugo continues looking awesome. The series has been tough but it hasn’t changed my mind about the team. If Whitlock and Sale are both bad they were going to have a rough year no matter what, but I’m not convinced that will happen all season.
Rays are playing insanely well right now, let’s try to win one and then have a good showing against the Angels. It’s early things can turn around fast.
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Apr 12, 2023 21:56:11 GMT -5
It's a fair comment to throw onto this board, though. After an off-season of countless posts about bad luck (Man, that AL East is brutal!) and injuries in 2022, we're 12 games through 2023 and we're already seeing posts about bad luck and injuries. Bill Parcells: “You are what your record says you are.” There's always going to be an element of luck, random variations during a long baseball season. There will always be screaming 100 MPH line drives at fielders and 50 MPH bloopers that fall in. There will always be wind blown fly balls that just make it over the wall and 400 foot blasts that are snagged out of the bullpen. There will always be umpiring calls that make one shake their head. There will be well timed hits by slumping players and scorching hot players who can't get the big hit at the right time. There will be devastating injuries. There will be injuries that provide opportunities to guys who seize them. Thousands of these scenarios will unfold during a season and it's very unlikely going to work exactly 50% in favor of and 50% against. There's going to be some random variance but at the end of the day the best teams throughout all those trials will rise to the top and the others will fall by the wayside. It just is what it is. The good teams will take advantage of their situations and find a way to win and not so good teams won't. That's baseball. Yup. Sale last year is an example. Hell I remember a time many seasons ago when sale would constantly go like 7 innings and not get the win because the offense just felt like not showing up that day. Or an even better example Felix Hernandez for like his entire career
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Apr 12, 2023 22:01:01 GMT -5
Good teams make their luck. Bad teams use it as an excuse. I like to rely on that old saw, "Outcomes are a product of both skill and luck, and these two things aren't particularly correlated with each other."
|
|
|
Post by yuchangclan on Apr 12, 2023 22:03:40 GMT -5
This is kind of a meaningless tautology. It's a fair comment to throw onto this board, though. After an off-season of countless posts about bad luck (Man, that AL East is brutal!) and injuries in 2022, we're 12 games through 2023 and we're already seeing posts about bad luck and injuries. Bill Parcells: “You are what your record says you are.” This is right on the money. Really good teams don’t have to worry about bad luck because talent generally wins out. In 2018, for example, the Red Sox had the best team in baseball and they steamrolled everyone en route to the Championship. Bad luck wasn’t going to derail that team because they had the roster to offset it over the grind of a 7 month season.
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Apr 12, 2023 22:14:09 GMT -5
It's a fair comment to throw onto this board, though. After an off-season of countless posts about bad luck (Man, that AL East is brutal!) and injuries in 2022, we're 12 games through 2023 and we're already seeing posts about bad luck and injuries. Bill Parcells: “You are what your record says you are.” This is right on the money. Really good teams don’t have to worry about bad luck because talent generally wins out. In 2018, for example, the Red Sox had the best team in baseball and they steamrolled everyone en route to the Championship. Bad luck wasn’t going to derail that team because they had the roster to offset it over the grind of a 7 month season. Someone should tell the dodger fans that. They were apocalyptic how last season ended. The 2018 red sox were literally an exception to the rule. Also. See 2001 mariners. And the Patriot season that shall not be named
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 12, 2023 22:14:11 GMT -5
If the Rays do indeed sweep the Sox and go to 13-0 they will match the 1982 Braves and the 1987 Brewers who I think swept the defending AL champion Red Sox to start the season if my memory is correct.
I do remember both teams. The 1982 Braves were managed by Joe Torre and started 13-0, which was surprising given how mediocre they had been. They reverted to mediocrity afterwards, going just 76-73 the rest of the way to finish 89-73.
They had a comfortable lead but it eventually turned into a 3 team race. The Braves were fortunate to back in when their 2 main competitors knocked each other out. In Game 161 the Dodgers eliminated the Giants. In Game 162 the Giants eliminated the Dodgers which gave the Braves the title. The Dodgers finished 1 game out, at 88-74 while the Giants finished 2 games out, at 87-75. The Braves then played the Cards and then lost their ace Phil Niekro when the game got rained out...I think the Braves had an early lead but for all I know the game mat never have happened and perhaps I'm misremembering. Either way the Cards swept Atlanta before beating the Brewers in 7 games during the World Series.
The 1987 Brewers started 13-0 and then slumped so badly after that, that they actually fell under .500 later in the season. Then after the schizophrenic first half, they stabilized. I think that's the summer Paul Molitor hit in 39 straight games and was trying for 40 when he was hitless in an extra inning game and on deck when his teammate Rick Manning got the game winning hit and was booed by the home crowd Brewers fans for getting the game winning hit and ending Molitors hit streak.
The Brewers wound up 91-71, but finished 3rd in the year the Tigers overtook the Blue Jays in the final weekend of the season but lost to eventual 85 win World Champion Twins in the ALCS.
So historically a 13-0 start wouldnt guarantee Tampa anything, but it sure beats the gell our of starting 5-8. Lol
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Apr 12, 2023 22:18:57 GMT -5
If the Rays do indeed sweep the Sox and go to 13-0 they will match the 1982 Braves and the 1987 Brewers who I think swept the defending AL champion Red Sox to start the season if my memory is correct. I do remember both teams. The 1982 Braves were managed by Joe Torre and started 13-0, which was surprising given how mediocre they had been. They reverted to mediocrity afterwards, going just 76-73 the rest of the way to finish 89-73. They had a comfortable lead but it eventually turned into a 3 team race. The Braves were fortunate to back in when their 2 main competitors knocked each other out. In Game 161 the Dodgers eliminated the Giants. In Game 162 the Giants eliminated the Dodgers which gave the Braves the title. The Dodgers finished 1 game out, at 88-74 while the Giants finished 2 games out, at 87-75. The Braves then played the Cards and then lost their ace Phil Niekro when the game got rained out...I think the Braves had an early lead but for all I know the game mat never have happened and perhaps I'm misremembering. Either way the Cards swept Atlanta before beating the Brewers in 7 games during the World Series. The 1987 Brewers started 13-0 and then slumped so badly after that, that they actually fell under .500 later in the season. Then after the schizophrenic first half, they stabilized. I think that's the summer Paul Molitor hit in 39 straight games and was trying for 40 when he was hitless in an extra inning game and on deck when his teammate Rick Manning got the game winning hit and was booed by the home crowd Brewers fans for getting the game winning hit and ending Molitors hit streak. The Brewers wound up 91-71, but finished 3rd in the year the Tigers overtook the Blue Jays in the final weekend of the season but lost to eventual 85 win World Champion Twins in the ALCS. So historically a 13-0 start wouldnt guarantee Tampa anything, but it sure beats the gell our of starting 5-8. Lol And as i said above the 2001 Mariners and the 2022 Dodgers. Both had historical regular seasons that will be nothing more than a footnote because of how their respective seasons ended.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 12, 2023 22:27:10 GMT -5
If the Rays do indeed sweep the Sox and go to 13-0 they will match the 1982 Braves and the 1987 Brewers who I think swept the defending AL champion Red Sox to start the season if my memory is correct. I do remember both teams. The 1982 Braves were managed by Joe Torre and started 13-0, which was surprising given how mediocre they had been. They reverted to mediocrity afterwards, going just 76-73 the rest of the way to finish 89-73. They had a comfortable lead but it eventually turned into a 3 team race. The Braves were fortunate to back in when their 2 main competitors knocked each other out. In Game 161 the Dodgers eliminated the Giants. In Game 162 the Giants eliminated the Dodgers which gave the Braves the title. The Dodgers finished 1 game out, at 88-74 while the Giants finished 2 games out, at 87-75. The Braves then played the Cards and then lost their ace Phil Niekro when the game got rained out...I think the Braves had an early lead but for all I know the game mat never have happened and perhaps I'm misremembering. Either way the Cards swept Atlanta before beating the Brewers in 7 games during the World Series. The 1987 Brewers started 13-0 and then slumped so badly after that, that they actually fell under .500 later in the season. Then after the schizophrenic first half, they stabilized. I think that's the summer Paul Molitor hit in 39 straight games and was trying for 40 when he was hitless in an extra inning game and on deck when his teammate Rick Manning got the game winning hit and was booed by the home crowd Brewers fans for getting the game winning hit and ending Molitors hit streak. The Brewers wound up 91-71, but finished 3rd in the year the Tigers overtook the Blue Jays in the final weekend of the season but lost to eventual 85 win World Champion Twins in the ALCS. So historically a 13-0 start wouldnt guarantee Tampa anything, but it sure beats the gell our of starting 5-8. Lol And as i said above the 2001 Mariners and the 2022 Dodgers. Both had historical record seasons that will be nothing more than a footnote because of how their respective seasons ended The 1906 Cubs went 116-36, the only team ever to finish 80 games over. 500...and were beaten in the World Series by the crosstown White Sox, known as "the hitless wonders". The Cubs did rebound to beat Detroit in the World Series in 1907 and 1908 before having to wait until 2016 to win again. The 111-43 Cleveland Indians of 1954 got swept in the World Series by the NY Giants. The winningest NL team to get swept in the Series were the 105 win 2004 Cardinals by the Red Sox of course. Those are extreme examples of winning teams that failed. There is also a list of dominant teams that have won. Coincidentally there have been 4 teams to go 108-54 and all 4 won the Series, the 1970 Orioles, a year after they won 109 and lost to the Mets, the 1975 Reds and 1986 Mets who both beat the Red Sox, and then the 2018 Red Sox who beat the Dodgers.
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Apr 12, 2023 22:31:44 GMT -5
And as i said above the 2001 Mariners and the 2022 Dodgers. Both had historical record seasons that will be nothing more than a footnote because of how their respective seasons ended The 1906 Cubs went 116-36, the only team ever to finish 80 games over. 500...and were beaten in the World Series by the crosstown White Sox, known as "the hitless wonders". The Cubs did rebound to beat Detroit in the World Series in 1907 and 1908 before having to wait until 2016 to win again. The 111-43 Cleveland Indians of 1954 got swept in the World Series by the NY Giants. The winningest NL team to get swept in the Series were the 105 win 2004 Cardinals by the Red Sox of course. Those are extreme examples of winning teams that failed. There is also a list of dominant teams that have won. Coincidentally there have been 4 teams to go 108-54 and all 4 won the Series, the 1970 Orioles, a year after they won 109 and lost to the Mets, the 1975 Reds and 1986 Mets who both beat the Red Sox, and then the 2018 Red Sox who beat the Dodgers. But again. With the expanded wildcard (really since the introduction of the wildcard) the regular season records mean a lot less than they did previously.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Apr 12, 2023 22:42:51 GMT -5
If the Rays do indeed sweep the Sox and go to 13-0 they will match the 1982 Braves and the 1987 Brewers who I think swept the defending AL champion Red Sox to start the season if my memory is correct. I do remember both teams. The 1982 Braves were managed by Joe Torre and started 13-0, which was surprising given how mediocre they had been. They reverted to mediocrity afterwards, going just 76-73 the rest of the way to finish 89-73. They had a comfortable lead but it eventually turned into a 3 team race. The Braves were fortunate to back in when their 2 main competitors knocked each other out. In Game 161 the Dodgers eliminated the Giants. In Game 162 the Giants eliminated the Dodgers which gave the Braves the title. The Dodgers finished 1 game out, at 88-74 while the Giants finished 2 games out, at 87-75. The Braves then played the Cards and then lost their ace Phil Niekro when the game got rained out...I think the Braves had an early lead but for all I know the game mat never have happened and perhaps I'm misremembering. Either way the Cards swept Atlanta before beating the Brewers in 7 games during the World Series. The 1987 Brewers started 13-0 and then slumped so badly after that, that they actually fell under .500 later in the season. Then after the schizophrenic first half, they stabilized. I think that's the summer Paul Molitor hit in 39 straight games and was trying for 40 when he was hitless in an extra inning game and on deck when his teammate Rick Manning got the game winning hit and was booed by the home crowd Brewers fans for getting the game winning hit and ending Molitors hit streak. The Brewers wound up 91-71, but finished 3rd in the year the Tigers overtook the Blue Jays in the final weekend of the season but lost to eventual 85 win World Champion Twins in the ALCS. So historically a 13-0 start wouldnt guarantee Tampa anything, but it sure beats the gell our of starting 5-8. Lol And as i said above the 2001 Mariners and the 2022 Dodgers. Both had historical regular seasons that will be nothing more than a footnote because of how their respective seasons ended. Does the footnote mention who finished fifth?
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 12, 2023 22:43:29 GMT -5
The 1906 Cubs went 116-36, the only team ever to finish 80 games over. 500...and were beaten in the World Series by the crosstown White Sox, known as "the hitless wonders". The Cubs did rebound to beat Detroit in the World Series in 1907 and 1908 before having to wait until 2016 to win again. The 111-43 Cleveland Indians of 1954 got swept in the World Series by the NY Giants. The winningest NL team to get swept in the Series were the 105 win 2004 Cardinals by the Red Sox of course. Those are extreme examples of winning teams that failed. There is also a list of dominant teams that have won. Coincidentally there have been 4 teams to go 108-54 and all 4 won the Series, the 1970 Orioles, a year after they won 109 and lost to the Mets, the 1975 Reds and 1986 Mets who both beat the Red Sox, and then the 2018 Red Sox who beat the Dodgers. But again. With the expanded wildcard (really since the introduction of the wildcard) the regular season records mean a lot less than they did previously. Yes, and I dont particularly care for that aspect, especially when the day comes that a sub. 500 team makes the playoffs and even advances to the Series and worse, wins it. The 1994 Rangers were 10 games under .500 and on first place when the strike hit and killed the season. That year might have had the first sub .500 team in the post season, excluding the split season Royals of 1981 whose two half combined to 50-53, the same year the winnngest team, the 66-42 Reds weren't allowed into the post season.
|
|
|
Post by wildsox on Apr 12, 2023 23:04:20 GMT -5
I was not happy with us bunting down 2. But I think the bigger issue is that we don't have anyone we could put in to hit if Chang wasn't the guy
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Apr 12, 2023 23:15:54 GMT -5
And as i said above the 2001 Mariners and the 2022 Dodgers. Both had historical regular seasons that will be nothing more than a footnote because of how their respective seasons ended. Does the footnote mention who finished fifth? Thats not my point and you know it.
|
|
|
Post by bosoxnation on Apr 13, 2023 0:01:48 GMT -5
Can’t believe Casas batted cleanup. I’m happy i missed todays game. Cora is really bad.
|
|
ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,446
|
Post by ianrs on Apr 13, 2023 0:07:07 GMT -5
The whole Chris Sale situation is so, so unfortunate. Its amazing what a shortsighted GM can do to an organization. Win now, sure, but pay the price many, many years later.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Apr 13, 2023 0:16:13 GMT -5
The whole Chris Sale situation is so, so unfortunate. Its amazing what a shortsighted GM can do to an organization. Win now, sure, but pay the price many, many years later. Is Chris Sale and his contract the problem still? I mean… is this a decent team getting killed on his says but otherwise contending? Or a team that is financially hamstrung by it? They have cleared *everything* but him. As bad as he is right now, he is the top of the iceberg.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 13, 2023 0:49:24 GMT -5
I have to admit to being in favor of the contract at the time although I didnt know how bad he was. When I saw him pitching in the series the image of Sale wasn't that of an injured pitcher but rather of a guy corkscrewing Machado into the ground after throwing yet another unhittable slider.
I rationalized that 5 years at 29 million wouldn't be a killer. I mean aces are getting 35 plus million year for longer term deals. So 5 years ar the time didnt seem too long and it was less than 150 million and I rationalized even if he needed TJS soon he'd have a few years to recover and pitch like an ace. I certainly didnt foresee all the other issues that popped up and rendered him useless for most of the past 4 years.
So it was a bad deal and Dimbrowski probably got fired over it, along with the Eovaldi deal, which was actually a decent contract as the 2021 Sox go nowhere without him.
It turned out to be a bad deal but I could see Dombrowski thinking that a shorter term deal for less than 30 million for a guy with an ace track record and ceiling was a reasonable gamble even with the injury threat hanging overhead.
I don't think it should have hamstrung the franchise and my guess is that Dombrowski still planned to pursue Mookie but then got into it with ownership when he was told that Mookie's money was already spent and that they'd be adhering to the luxury tax limit which I'm sure Dombrowski didnt plan to do and that disconnect probably caused his dismissal.
|
|
|
Post by semperfisox on Apr 13, 2023 6:32:56 GMT -5
Season just started and I already find this team unlikable.
|
|
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,659
|
Post by cdj on Apr 13, 2023 6:33:49 GMT -5
The sale contract is absolutely a killer, they’d be in much better shape with 2 solid $15 mill talents
I don’t find this team unlikable- they actually have shown some heart. They don’t really give up and go away. They have just had some really bad luck already (with injuries and bounces) and can’t field. Couple that with some dumb coaching (bullpen, lineups, lack of preparation for new rules relative to other teams) and we are gonna get beat by good teams.
I actually think the team has talent. Not elite upside, but there is no way they shouldn’t win 85 games. If they don’t talent should not be the excuse
|
|
|
Post by bellhorndingers21 on Apr 13, 2023 6:49:28 GMT -5
Season just started and I already find this team unlikable. More boring than anything. The players seem fine. It feels like management misjudged some effects of the new rules. The team is old, slow, can't prevent a stolen base and lacks power. I'm trying to talk myself into the team hitting a stride when Mondesi, Duvall and Story return in the summer but there is a lot of ugly baseball left to be played until then.
|
|
shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,845
|
Post by shagworthy on Apr 13, 2023 6:51:57 GMT -5
On the bright side, today's game starts at 1:10pm est, so we don't have to wait for this team to crush our spirit and sully our souls.
|
|
shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,845
|
Post by shagworthy on Apr 13, 2023 6:54:05 GMT -5
Season just started and I already find this team unlikable. More boring than anything. The players seem fine. It feels like management misjudged some effects of the new rules. The team is old, slow, can't prevent a stolen base and lacks power. I'm trying to talk myself into the team hitting a stride when Mondesi, Duvall and Story return in the summer but there is a lot of ugly baseball left to be played until then. Think you're onto something there, it doesn't seem like they developed a strategy to hold runners on within the new rules. No other team is giving guys the jumps baserunners are getting, and they still have to contend with the clock.
|
|
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,659
|
Post by cdj on Apr 13, 2023 6:54:37 GMT -5
On the bright side, today's game starts at 1:10pm est, so we don't have to wait for this team to crush our spirit and sully our souls. Worst case scenario I can get distracted from the game by work, best case scenario I can get distracted from work by the game! Win-win!
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 13, 2023 7:04:23 GMT -5
At least John Henry's hockey team missed the playoffs. More time for him to watch this wonderful Red Sox product.
|
|
|