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5/12-5/14 Red Sox vs. Cardinals Series Thread
jimoh
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Posts: 4,111
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Post by jimoh on May 12, 2023 9:01:39 GMT -5
My Cardinals fan friend says "I've been watching this scary new TV show called 'Cardinals have 1-run lead in the 7th.'"
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cdj
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Posts: 15,645
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Post by cdj on May 12, 2023 10:46:01 GMT -5
There’s too much talent on that team for them to be bad much longer
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Post by redsoxpride34 on May 12, 2023 10:59:50 GMT -5
No upside?? So yeah, release him, eat $10m and see what happens with Hamilton. Pretty flawless strategy there, definitely wouldn't piss off an entire clubhouse. This team is in the 2nd wildcard spot, no 15 games under .500 Except he never said to ârelease himâ. He said that Kikè is a super utility guyâ¦which he is. I have no idea if Hamilton is the answer to anything, but it seems like you created an argument just so you could DESTROY it. Thank you for pointing that out. I never said release Kiké, merely move him to a super utility role. Defensively he is not an everyday SS and he certainly does not hit enough to justify the poor defense at the position. My main point was that we should not block young players who may have upside with vets who don't. Not saying hamilton will pan out but worth giving him a shot.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on May 12, 2023 11:07:17 GMT -5
Hernández only hits 5th against LHP. He moves down the order against RHP. He started the year ice cold (.083/.233/.250 in 11g) but has been absolutely fine since (.296/.327/.398 in 25g). If Kiké is what you're complaining about, you're looking for something to complain about. There are definitely those who look for something to complain about here, but thankfully a 22-16 record helps lower the volume! The Bloom complaints have also gone down with the emergence of: Winckowski, Valdez, the new and improved Verdugo, Yoshida hitting, Duval,….
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on May 12, 2023 11:09:12 GMT -5
Except he never said to ârelease himâ. He said that Kikè is a super utility guyâ¦which he is. I have no idea if Hamilton is the answer to anything, but it seems like you created an argument just so you could DESTROY it. Thank you for pointing that out. I never said release Kiké, merely move him to a super utility role. Defensively he is not an everyday SS and he certainly does not hit enough to justify the poor defense at the position. My main point was that we should not block young players who may have upside with vets who don't. Not saying hamilton will pan out but worth giving him a shot. You're Alex Cora, you walk into that clubhouse and tell this team "Sorry Kikè, I know it's a contract year, but David Hamilton is taking your job. You'll be splitting time with Valdez/Refsnyder/Tapia." Tell me how you think that one goes over, esp after the Hamilton/Valdez starting infield allows 9 Brayan Bello ground balls through
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on May 12, 2023 11:14:17 GMT -5
Hernández only hits 5th against LHP. He moves down the order against RHP. He started the year ice cold (.083/.233/.250 in 11g) but has been absolutely fine since (.296/.327/.398 in 25g). If Kiké is what you're complaining about, you're looking for something to complain about. Eh, that feels a little overly simplistic. Even during that "absolutely fine" stretch he's had a wRC+ under 90 and the advanced defensive metrics hate his work at SS this season (like literally some of the worst, if not the worst, in the MLB depending on the metric). The Red Sox playing well doesn't mean fans won't look at what the best opportunities for improvement are – though I absolutely agree there's nobody who is a good bet to replace him until Mondesi or Story are back... so one might be better served focusing on the potential pitching logjam for improvement instead. Hernandez is not bad for the 4th option behind Story, Mondesi, and Chang who replaced him until he got hurt. I agree with Chris….complaining to be complaining now that they are 22-16, and that some of Bloom’s acquisitions have led the charge. The Red Sox currently have the 4th best record in the AL, and they have the 6th best in the entire MLB, so yes there are areas they can improve, but I am certainly not going to nitpick considering how many injuries they have had in both the pitching staff and up the middle.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on May 12, 2023 11:24:11 GMT -5
Except he never said to âÂÂrelease himâÂÂ. He said that Kikè is a super utility guyâ¦which he is. I have no idea if Hamilton is the answer to anything, but it seems like you created an argument just so you could DESTROY it. Thank you for pointing that out. I never said release Kiké, merely move him to a super utility role. Defensively he is not an everyday SS and he certainly does not hit enough to justify the poor defense at the position. My main point was that we should not block young players who may have upside with vets who don't. Not saying hamilton will pan out but worth giving him a shot. I think you're conflating uncertainty with upside. Just because we don't know what David Hamilton can do at the MLB level doesn't mean it's likely, or even possible, that he's better than Kiké. Given A) Kiké has been generally fine lately, B) The team isn't suffering with him being less than stellar, and C) A lot of what he brings isn't represented by OAA or wRC+, I would strongly disagree that it's currently worth giving him a shot. If this were August 2022 and the Red Sox were middling while Hamilton was hitting well, then sure. But there is no incentive for the Red Sox to take that risk right now. I'd also add D) Kiké's going to be reduced to that role when some combination of Mondesi/Duvall/Story return anyway, so even less to be gained by bringing Hamilton up for a short spurt unless you think he has the potential to surprise at a Duran level.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 4,111
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Post by jimoh on May 12, 2023 12:52:40 GMT -5
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Post by dirtywaterinla on May 12, 2023 13:00:04 GMT -5
Solid move to get Kiké back to 2B or CF where he's stronger defensively. Also a solid stopgap until one of Arroyo, Mondesi, Story and/or Chang are finally healthy.
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Post by grandsalami on May 12, 2023 13:02:09 GMT -5
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Post by cba82 on May 12, 2023 13:16:02 GMT -5
“Solid move to get Kiké back to 2B or CF where he's stronger defensively. Also a solid stopgap until one of Arroyo, Mondesi, Story and/or Chang are finally healthy” — Doesn’t Reyes seem bound for Worcester?
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Post by rhswanzey on May 12, 2023 13:27:06 GMT -5
This. It gives them an alternative to Bobby Dalbec, backup shortstop, while Arroyo is out. But he’s not going straight to Boston, is he? Maybe Worcester just needs an infielder with Valdez and Dalbec both up.
If Christian Koss was hitting, those two call ups would have been an opportunity for him to move up to AAA, where he probably would have started the season had the Worcester middle infield been less crowded (with Dalbec eating SS reps).
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Post by julyanmorley on May 12, 2023 13:29:22 GMT -5
I'll take Reyes over Bobby Bombs
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Post by Guidas on May 12, 2023 13:31:08 GMT -5
Duran and Duvall have combined for 2.5 WAR in 30 games. The major league leader in WAR is Wander Franco, at 2.3. I know someone posts something like this every few days but it's still amazing to me.
How many more PAs before All World All Star Jarren Duran™ qualifies for league batting statistics?
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Post by Guidas on May 12, 2023 13:36:31 GMT -5
This time next year: "...And the Rays' Zack Littell, has gone from little known reliever to Cy Young-contending starter"...probably.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on May 12, 2023 13:41:39 GMT -5
“Solid move to get Kiké back to 2B or CF where he's stronger defensively. Also a solid stopgap until one of Arroyo, Mondesi, Story and/or Chang are finally healthy” — Doesn’t Reyes seem bound for Worcester? Seems like that’s more procedural. Saw a couple of tweets that Bobstop will be going back down. Makes plenty of sense since there isn’t any viable backup middle IFs at the moment.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 9,007
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Post by ericmvan on May 12, 2023 13:43:24 GMT -5
Two years ago the Sox were also 22-16 at this point in the season, which came just one day later.
Kiké then vs. now:
124 PA, .239 / .298 / .425, 90 wRC+, .307 xwOBA, .310 wOBA
147 PA, .239 / .299 / .358, 78 wRC+, .258 xwOBA, .292 wOBA
Kiké after this point in the season in 2021:
461 PA, .253 / .347 / .456, 114 RC+, .357 xwOBA, .345 wOBA
The things is, is, he struggled until June 5, after which he was one of the best hitters in MLB.
Given that he's spent most of the year having difficulty throwing accurately from SS, you can cut him further slack in terms of where his focus for improvement likely is. He had 5 errors in his first 8 games at SS, 3 in his next 9, including the infamous 2 in an inning, and since then he's rocked an 8-game errorless streak.
I argued two years ago that there was a strong real component to that offensive breakthrough. Patience is warranted.
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Post by julyanmorley on May 12, 2023 13:44:17 GMT -5
Pretty sure there's literally zero difference between how the Rays and Red Sox evaluate pitchers
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Post by semperfisox on May 12, 2023 14:06:11 GMT -5
Verdugo RF Yoshida LF Turner DH Devers 3B Duran CF Casas 1B Hernández SS Valdez 2B Wong C
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Post by grandsalami on May 12, 2023 14:14:26 GMT -5
Pretty sure there's literally zero difference between how the Rays and Red Sox evaluate pitchers Nah, they have that voooodooooo magic
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,645
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Post by cdj on May 12, 2023 14:34:06 GMT -5
credit to Wainwright for still hanging around
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Post by geostorm on May 12, 2023 15:26:03 GMT -5
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Post by redsoxpride34 on May 12, 2023 15:48:07 GMT -5
Thank you for pointing that out. I never said release Kiké, merely move him to a super utility role. Defensively he is not an everyday SS and he certainly does not hit enough to justify the poor defense at the position. My main point was that we should not block young players who may have upside with vets who don't. Not saying hamilton will pan out but worth giving him a shot. I think you're conflating uncertainty with upside. Just because we don't know what David Hamilton can do at the MLB level doesn't mean it's likely, or even possible, that he's better than Kiké. Given A) Kiké has been generally fine lately, B) The team isn't suffering with him being less than stellar, and C) A lot of what he brings isn't represented by OAA or wRC+, I would strongly disagree that it's currently worth giving him a shot. If this were August 2022 and the Red Sox were middling while Hamilton was hitting well, then sure. But there is no incentive for the Red Sox to take that risk right now. I'd also add D) Kiké's going to be reduced to that role when some combination of Mondesi/Duvall/Story return anyway, so even less to be gained by bringing Hamilton up for a short spurt unless you think he has the potential to surprise at a Duran level. You're right in that we don't know what Hamilton will be at the ML level. But if he does continue to play the way he has in AAA then you are a much better team for it. If he struggles, you send him back down and move Kiké back in until story/mondesi are back. I'd disagree that Kiké isnt hurting the team with his less than stellar play to this point. On top of his 8 errors in the field and .239 avg/.658 ops/.299 obp, he's also hitting .222 with a .525 ops with RISP.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on May 12, 2023 15:53:04 GMT -5
I think you're conflating uncertainty with upside. Just because we don't know what David Hamilton can do at the MLB level doesn't mean it's likely, or even possible, that he's better than Kiké. Given A) Kiké has been generally fine lately, B) The team isn't suffering with him being less than stellar, and C) A lot of what he brings isn't represented by OAA or wRC+, I would strongly disagree that it's currently worth giving him a shot. If this were August 2022 and the Red Sox were middling while Hamilton was hitting well, then sure. But there is no incentive for the Red Sox to take that risk right now. I'd also add D) Kiké's going to be reduced to that role when some combination of Mondesi/Duvall/Story return anyway, so even less to be gained by bringing Hamilton up for a short spurt unless you think he has the potential to surprise at a Duran level. You're right in that we don't know what Hamilton will be at the ML level. But if he does continue to play the way he has in AAA then you are a much better team for it. If he struggles, you send him back down and move Kiké back in until story/mondesi are back. I'd disagree that Kiké isnt hurting the team with his less than stellar play to this point. On top of his 8 errors in the field and .239 avg/.658 ops/.299 obp, he's also hitting .222 with a .525 ops with RISP. If you could guarantee me that Hamilton’s MLB production would be a like-for-like match of his AAA production then sure, sign me up… but that’s not how it works
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Post by GyIantosca on May 12, 2023 15:54:12 GMT -5
Man, the Sox better watch out all this cash there throwing around so soon has me concerned about the budget.
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