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4/25-4/28 Red Sox vs. Astros Series Thread
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Post by Jonathan Singer on Apr 24, 2013 20:13:46 GMT -5
4/25 Red Sox (RHP Clay Buchholz 4-0 0.90) vs. Astros (RHP Philip Humber 0-4 6.63) 6:35 pm ET, NESN/WEEI4/26 Red Sox (RHP Ryan Dempster 0-2 3.38) vs. Astros (LHP Erik Bedard 0-1 6.17) 7:10 pm ET, NESN/WEEI4/27 Red Sox (LHP Felix Doubront 2-0 4.32) vs. Astros (RHP Brad Peacock 1-2 7.50) 7:10 pm ET, NESN/WEEI4/28 Red Sox (RHP John Lackey 0-1 4.15) vs. Astros (RHP Bud Norris 3-2 4.13) 1:35 pm ET, NESN/WEEIMLB StandingsRed Sox Hitting StatsRed Sox Pitching StatsMLB ScoreboardMLB TransactionsWeatherSeries Thread Disclaimer: The SoxProspects Moderators will be somewhat liberal in policing the Red Sox "Series" Threads. Some of the Ground Rules are applied loosely in here, as we understand that there is a tendency to want to react (or overreact) to every play of a Sox game with one line reactionary posts. Those posts are okay in the Red Sox Series threads to a point - we certainly appreciate the passion. Just try not to overdo it, and try to maintain some semblance of reason. In addition, please don't let those type of posts spill over to other more substantive threads, where they may be deleted. -The Management
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Post by Jonathan Singer on Apr 25, 2013 6:31:51 GMT -5
Minimum should take 3 of 4 in this series.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2013 7:24:04 GMT -5
I am not thrilled about Aceves being in AAA. I just want him out of the organization. I think that he will have a bad influence on the young guys, such as Brentz, Webster, RDLR, Bradley, Iglesias, or Lavarnway. I would just DFA Aceves and try to get some outfield depth in return if he has any value. For example, someone he could be traded for is Tony Campana. He stole 30 bases last year in little at-bats for the cubs and is currently in AAA in Arizona.
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Post by threeifbaerga on Apr 25, 2013 7:33:23 GMT -5
Would you trade Campana for a long reliever with an ERA over 8 in his last 25 appearances? Let alone one with the reputation Aceves has?
I don't think they get anything for him, I think a release is in his future.
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Post by JackieWilsonsaid on Apr 25, 2013 7:39:16 GMT -5
I know I'm not alone in thinking a sweep is in play.
Hopefully the bats will really light up for Sunday's start.
If the other starters get deep against arguably the worst lineup in recent memory, then we have more of a biggy back situation With Lackey, not only will we end April with a better than hoped for record, we will have perfectly lined up starters and a rested pen headed for Toronto.
As long as the cart is about a half mile in fromt of the horse, May schedule is light as well, including a home and home with the twinkies, and trips to the white sox and Phillies before another visit from Francona's work in progress Indians.
Anyone care to really tempt fate with an over under on the total sox wins June 1?
Let's try 38.
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Post by ozebaseball on Apr 25, 2013 7:52:19 GMT -5
I am not thrilled about Aceves being in AAA. I just want him out of the organization. I think that he will have a bad influence on the young guys, such as Brentz, Webster, RDLR, Bradley, Iglesias, or Lavarnway. I would just DFA Aceves and try to get some outfield depth in return if he has any value. For example, someone he could be traded for is Tony Campana. He stole 30 bases last year in little at-bats for the cubs and is currently in AAA in Arizona. I see this repeated through so many threads on this board and I think it's just utter garbage, no offense sox4life. The whole idea that Aceves is a 'bad influence' is just really intellectually lazy. I think the guy is a jerk as well and as much as following professional sport is about rooting for your team - you want to root for either nice guys or good guys. Aceves is neither. But when you translate this into following the development of younger players I think it is just wrong to think that a collection of 20-odd men in their early to mid twenties are going to just mystically adopt the character traits of another person because they share a room with him. It's ridiculous. I haven't heard any criticism of Aceves' work ethic, just that the guy is a dick. Do you expect Allen Webster to start picking fights with players on the opposing teams? Or Jackie Bradley Jr to start having hissy fits at his manager in public? It's ridiculous. And even if he is lazy - do you think a collection of prospects will look at Alfredo Aceves, Pawtucket Red Sock, and think "jeez, I should really be lazy too so that I can get sent down to the minors after a few years in the bigs", or do you think they might think, "shit, I better not follow the poor example that guy set and should really work hard to make the most of my talent". Or do you think they are just such shrinking violets that in their 20-something years on this earth they've never come across an arsehole in their everyday lives and don't know how to deal with or ignore them? Like I said, this just gets repeated ad nauseum and it strikes me as one of the stupidest pieces of received wisdom imagineable. For starters it's intellectually lazy and even then, for it to even hold you have to have an exceptionally low opinion of the players you're concerned about.
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Post by sammo420 on Apr 25, 2013 8:03:16 GMT -5
Looks like the Astros have cornered the market on reclamation projects. If we do release him I bet he goes to Houston and pitches a gem against us later in the year.
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Post by jmei on Apr 25, 2013 8:08:43 GMT -5
If the other starters get deep against arguably the worst lineup in recent memory, then we have more of a biggy back situation Actually, Houston's offense isn't that bad. 14th in baseball in runs, 11th in OPS, and 8th in wRC+ (by comparison, the Red Sox are 7th in runs, 12th in OPS, and 12th in wRC+). The real problem is the pitching-- last in the league with a 5.19 ERA and a 5.13 FIP.
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Post by soxcentral on Apr 25, 2013 8:25:51 GMT -5
I am not thrilled about Aceves being in AAA. I just want him out of the organization. I think that he will have a bad influence on the young guys, such as Brentz, Webster, RDLR, Bradley, Iglesias, or Lavarnway. I would just DFA Aceves and try to get some outfield depth in return if he has any value. For example, someone he could be traded for is Tony Campana. He stole 30 bases last year in little at-bats for the cubs and is currently in AAA in Arizona. I see this repeated through so many threads on this board and I think it's just utter garbage, no offense sox4life. The whole idea that Aceves is a 'bad influence' is just really intellectually lazy. I think the guy is a jerk as well and as much as following professional sport is about rooting for your team - you want to root for either nice guys or good guys. Aceves is neither. But when you translate this into following the development of younger players I think it is just wrong to think that a collection of 20-odd men in their early to mid twenties are going to just mystically adopt the character traits of another person because they share a room with him. It's ridiculous. I haven't heard any criticism of Aceves' work ethic, just that the guy is a dick. Do you expect Allen Webster to start picking fights with players on the opposing teams? Or Jackie Bradley Jr to start having hissy fits at his manager in public? It's ridiculous. And even if he is lazy - do you think a collection of prospects will look at Alfredo Aceves, Pawtucket Red Sock, and think "jeez, I should really be lazy too so that I can get sent down to the minors after a few years in the bigs", or do you think they might think, "shit, I better not follow the poor example that guy set and should really work hard to make the most of my talent". Or do you think they are just such shrinking violets that in their 20-something years on this earth they've never come across an arsehole in their everyday lives and don't know how to deal with or ignore them? Like I said, this just gets repeated ad nauseum and it strikes me as one of the stupidest pieces of received wisdom imagineable. For starters it's intellectually lazy and even then, for it to even hold you have to have an exceptionally low opinion of the players you're concerned about. 'You are the average of the 5 people you spend the most time with.' - Jim Rohn If you dismiss bad influences out of hand, then we should do the same with good influences as well. 'Clubhouse guys' like David Ross, Victorino, and Dempster, having Pedro around to mentor RDLR, and so on. The other counterargument would be Josh Beckett's seemingly bad influence on the career of Jon Lester, in particular. Overall, there is no downside to having Aceves around top prospects for a short period of time. But to say you are not subtly influenced by those around you over the long haul is not entirely true either.
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Post by Don Caballero on Apr 25, 2013 9:26:20 GMT -5
I hate these kind of series, anything other than taking 3 out 4 at least will suck.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Apr 25, 2013 9:52:20 GMT -5
I hate these kind of series, anything other than taking 3 out 4 at least will suck. I feel the same way. Any tension in these games will annoy me ... only fun way this series could play out is for the Sox to jump out to a four run lead in just about every game. And, yeah, I said roughly the same thing as ozebaseball about the "bad influence" of Alfredo Aceves. I don't really get the sense that he's divisive. To be that way, he'd have to have people who actually like and follow him, and I don't get that sense at all. He's pretty much so crazy that no one follows him with anything. But, look, if the PawSox suddenly start picking fights with Canadians, then I'll stand corrected.
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 25, 2013 9:52:47 GMT -5
'You are the average of the 5 people you spend the most time with.' - Jim Rohn If you dismiss bad influences out of hand, then we should do the same with good influences as well. 'Clubhouse guys' like David Ross, Victorino, and Dempster, having Pedro around to mentor RDLR, and so on. The other counterargument would be Josh Beckett's seemingly bad influence on the career of Jon Lester, in particular. Overall, there is no downside to having Aceves around top prospects for a short period of time. But to say you are not subtly influenced by those around you over the long haul is not entirely true either. I will likewise dismiss the idea of having "good clubhouse guys" in a general sense. Winning fuels chemistry and not the other way around. Victorino and Ross are considered very good at working with other players on baseball-specific skills though. That's still hard to quantify (as are other coaching metrics) but their reputations as good in the clubhouse come from more than patting backs and telling jokes. In the same vein, I'm pretty positive that people getting excited about Pedro mentoring RDLR was 100% related to him imparting his knowledge of pitching, rather than his effervescence. Aceves isn't going to unteach players their skills, and considering his career arc, I agree with ozebaseball that players are certainly going to be wary of emulating him. If Josh Beckett had a bad influence on the career of Lester, that speaks worse of Lester than it does on Beckett. I don't think that's fair, though. My guess is that Beckett and Lester are more similar than people think, but Beckett has more of an obvious ego publicly, so people decided that he was to blame. I mean, look at their good habits. Beckett has better mound composure, for example - why didn't Lester pick that up? This good guys vs. bad guys thing is reductionist.
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Post by pedroiaesque on Apr 25, 2013 11:40:19 GMT -5
Word on the street is that Lavarnaway is coming up to fill the roster spot vacated by Aceves: fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2013/04/24/source-red-sox-to-call-up-ryan-lavarnway/This seems like a strange move to me, unless one of the catchers is nursing an undisclosed injury. With Victorino dealing with some lower back soreness, why wouldn't the Sox just bring up JBJ for a few days as insurance? I realize they want him to work on a few things at Pawtucket (like actually making contact with an inside pitch), but it seems that the more immediate need is outfield depth.
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Post by mattpicard on Apr 25, 2013 11:48:12 GMT -5
Word on the street is that Lavarnaway is coming up to fill the roster spot vacated by Aceves: fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2013/04/24/source-red-sox-to-call-up-ryan-lavarnway/This seems like a strange move to me, unless one of the catchers is nursing an undisclosed injury. With Victorino dealing with some lower back soreness, why wouldn't the Sox just bring up JBJ for a few days as insurance? I realize they want him to work on a few things at Pawtucket (like actually making contact with an inside pitch), but it seems that the more immediate need is outfield depth. Isn't it too soon to bring him back up? Not sure I'd really want to take him out of his everyday role in Pawtucket right now anyway. Plus, I'm fine with Nava in RF for a couple games and either Carp/Gomes in LF. Offensively, it's the way to go, and the defense shouldn't kill us. Lavarnway just offers some right-handed depth. Maybe he'll see one start at C or DH.
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Post by mredsox89 on Apr 25, 2013 11:56:30 GMT -5
Sox optioned JBJ to Pawtucket on 4/18, so they've got to keep him there for a few more days. If Victorino goes on the DL, that's when JBJ would get called back up. Lavarnway is a place holder and maybe a pinch hitter until Sunday when Lackey or Webster get brought to Boston to start
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Post by iakovos11 on Apr 25, 2013 12:28:49 GMT -5
I'd be stunned if JBJ gets the call this time around if Victorino goes on the DL. He just got to Pawtucker after struggling mightily in Boston. Let's give him some time to get adjusted and find some success.
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Post by pedroiaesque on Apr 25, 2013 12:31:20 GMT -5
Sox optioned JBJ to Pawtucket on 4/18, so they've got to keep him there for a few more days. If Victorino goes on the DL, that's when JBJ would get called back up. Lavarnway is a place holder and maybe a pinch hitter until Sunday when Lackey or Webster get brought to Boston to start Yep, my bad. Should've done the math before speaking. Hypothetical, if Vicky did go on the DL, would you still put Nava in right and JBJ in left? I'd think the Sox would go with their CF'er in RF idea and put JBJ ub right, but I don't recall him playing there during ST.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2013 12:36:43 GMT -5
The ten day rule does not apply to replacing a player who is placed on the disabled list. The Red Sox could if they so chose put Victorino on the DL and call up JBJ today. There maybe several reasons why they don't wish to do that though.
Personally, I think that cutting Ryan Sweeney has hurt the team here. Sweeney was the only player other than Victorino and Bradley that could realistically play RF regularly in the majors. Now if Victorino is DLed the team is stuck with Bradley.
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Post by mattpicard on Apr 25, 2013 12:40:42 GMT -5
Sox optioned JBJ to Pawtucket on 4/18, so they've got to keep him there for a few more days. If Victorino goes on the DL, that's when JBJ would get called back up. Lavarnway is a place holder and maybe a pinch hitter until Sunday when Lackey or Webster get brought to Boston to start Hypothetical, if Vicky did go on the DL, would you still put Nava in right and JBJ in left? I'd think the Sox would go with their CF'er in RF idea and put JBJ ub right, but I don't recall him playing there during ST. That would be ridiculous if they kept Nava in RF and JBJ in LF, at home games at least. JBJ actually played some RF in Spring Training - It was LF that he made no appearances at, until the very end when him joining the MLB roster became a very likely possibility.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2013 12:41:00 GMT -5
I am going to take a guess here.....Lavarnway starts the Saturday game at DH.
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Post by pedroiaesque on Apr 25, 2013 12:58:27 GMT -5
Hypothetical, if Vicky did go on the DL, would you still put Nava in right and JBJ in left? I'd think the Sox would go with their CF'er in RF idea and put JBJ ub right, but I don't recall him playing there during ST. That would be ridiculous if they kept Nava in RF and JBJ in LF, at home games at least. JBJ actually played some RF in Spring Training - It was LF that he made no appearances at, until the very end when him joining the MLB roster became a very likely possibility. Agreed on the ridiculousness factor. Nava has done a good job improving his defense, but I wouldn't want him over there in Fenway for more than a short stretch if it can be avoided. Just didn't recall if JBJ was over there in ST. The word on having two CF'ers was that at Fenway, they'd play CF and RF, and in certain parks on the road, they'd play CF and LF.
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Post by mredsox89 on Apr 25, 2013 13:05:47 GMT -5
The only time JBJ should see LF in Fenway is if he's playing alongside elite defenders like Ellsbury and Victorino. They'd be wasting one of his better skills by putting him there and putting someone else (Nava) in RF
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Post by mattpicard on Apr 25, 2013 13:06:01 GMT -5
That would be ridiculous if they kept Nava in RF and JBJ in LF, at home games at least. JBJ actually played some RF in Spring Training - It was LF that he made no appearances at, until the very end when him joining the MLB roster became a very likely possibility. Agreed on the ridiculousness factor. Nava has done a good job improving his defense, but I wouldn't want him over there in Fenway for more than a short stretch if it can be avoided. Just didn't recall if JBJ was over there in ST. The word on having two CF'ers was that at Fenway, they'd play CF and RF, and in certain parks on the road, they'd play CF and LF. Right. It's not even that I don't think Nava could handle it - I think he's fine filling in. We've run far worse fielders out there in Fenway over the years. It's the fact that JBJ is such a good fielder (and has a solid arm) that would make it absurd to stash him in LF without another plus RF. If we were playing at Yankee stadium and it was between Gomes/Nava and Victorino/JBJ, you can surely bet the latter pair would be patrolling the larger LF. I've always been a huge supporter of managers organizing their outfield alignments like that.
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Post by elguapo on Apr 25, 2013 13:46:08 GMT -5
Sweeney offered nothing they don't still have in Maier. But they made the decision to go with 5 1B/LF/DH on the 25-man roster instead of an extra OF and so far it hasn't really made a material difference - a little extra hitting depth vs a little extra fielding depth.
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Post by amfox1 on Apr 25, 2013 14:08:10 GMT -5
Ellsbury CF, Nava RF, Pedroia 2B, Ortiz DH, Napoli 1B, Carp LF, Saltalamacchia C, Middlebrooks 3B, Drew SS, Buchholz SP.
No Shane-O, Carp with the start.
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