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Patriots 2023 Season Thread
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Post by rasimon on Oct 2, 2023 15:27:24 GMT -5
while Mac did not look good yesterday, its hard to fairly evaluate him given the crap-fest of an OL that he has.
Here are our PFF scores: (season PFF, rank at position for season, yesterday's score)
THE GOOD
Trent Brown 84.2, #2 of 69 OTs, 65.9 he was just ok yesterday. But he was by far the best we had.
THE OK
David Andrews 66.3, #11 of 36 Cs, 53.9 poor game. Run blocking was fine but pass protection was bad.
THE BAD (AND THE UGLY)
Michael Onwenu 44.7, #66 of 76 Gs, 40.0 he is clearly not recovered yet. Maybe they should shut him down?
Vederian Lowe 41.0, #66 of 69 OTs, 34.3
Atonio Mafi 37.6, #73 of 76 Gs, 37.4
Cole Strange 49.7, #59 of 76 Gs, did not play
Calvin Anderson 44.6, #65 of 69 OTs, did not play
Sidy Sow 28.8, #75 of 76 OTs, did not play
Before the season, who would have thunk it that they had potential to have a really stinky OL?
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 2, 2023 15:39:59 GMT -5
while Mac did not look good yesterday, its hard to fairly evaluate him given the crap-fest of an OL that he has. Here are our PFF scores: (season PFF, rank at position for season, yesterday's score) THE GOOD Trent Brown 84.2, #2 of 69 OTs, 65.9 he was just ok yesterday. But he was by far the best we had. THE OK David Andrews 66.3, #11 of 36 Cs, 53.9 poor game. Run blocking was fine but pass protection was bad. THE BAD (AND THE UGLY) Michael Onwenu 44.7, #66 of 76 Gs, 40.0 he is clearly not recovered yet. Maybe they should shut him down? Vederian Lowe 41.0, #66 of 69 OTs, 34.3 Atonio Mafi 37.6, #73 of 76 Gs, 37.4 Cole Strange 49.7, #59 of 76 Gs, did not play Calvin Anderson 44.6, #65 of 69 OTs, did not play Sidy Sow 28.8, #75 of 76 OTs, did not play Before the season, who would have thunk it that they had potential to have a really stinky OL? I want to push back on "we can't fairly judge Mac". Guys have to deal with terrible OLs. Brady has done it before. Zach Wilson is dealing with it (and no one is saying he's good, but did just out play Mahomes), Joe Burrow has been making a career out of a terrible line. The throws Mac was making yesterday were just awful and he kept making the same mistakes to the point of I'm not sure he cared by half time. He should have been picked off more than he was. It was a truly dreadful performance. With that said, I thought he's been decent overall this year. Just Mac is deserving of all the criticism he's getting today. Conversely, if he had an elite offensive line, would we be able to fairly judge him as well? |
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,862 
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Post by cdj on Oct 2, 2023 16:15:12 GMT -5
Mac is a guy who wasn’t an elite qb prospect, he’s not going to succeed early in his career with no weapons and a bad line. Unfortunately that’s what he’s had to deal with. He’s not good enough to carry that. Quite frankly Brady wasn’t good enough to carry that his last 8 weeks here
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 2, 2023 18:15:11 GMT -5
while Mac did not look good yesterday, its hard to fairly evaluate him given the crap-fest of an OL that he has. Here are our PFF scores: (season PFF, rank at position for season, yesterday's score) THE GOOD Trent Brown 84.2, #2 of 69 OTs, 65.9 he was just ok yesterday. But he was by far the best we had. THE OK David Andrews 66.3, #11 of 36 Cs, 53.9 poor game. Run blocking was fine but pass protection was bad. THE BAD (AND THE UGLY) Michael Onwenu 44.7, #66 of 76 Gs, 40.0 he is clearly not recovered yet. Maybe they should shut him down? Vederian Lowe 41.0, #66 of 69 OTs, 34.3 Atonio Mafi 37.6, #73 of 76 Gs, 37.4 Cole Strange 49.7, #59 of 76 Gs, did not play Calvin Anderson 44.6, #65 of 69 OTs, did not play Sidy Sow 28.8, #75 of 76 OTs, did not play Before the season, who would have thunk it that they had potential to have a really stinky OL? I want to push back on "we can't fairly judge Mac". Guys have to deal with terrible OLs. Brady has done it before. Zach Wilson is dealing with it (and no one is saying he's good, but did just out play Mahomes), Joe Burrow has been making a career out of a terrible line. The throws Mac was making yesterday were just awful and he kept making the same mistakes to the point of I'm not sure he cared by half time. He should have been picked off more than he was. It was a truly dreadful performance. With that said, I thought he's been decent overall this year. Just Mac is deserving of all the criticism he's getting today. Conversely, if he had an elite offensive line, would we be able to fairly judge him as well? When did Brady have to deal with a terrible line? Basically never… he also had a wizard as an Oline coach every year but 2…. That being said - Macs not the guy. He’s just not |
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 2, 2023 20:23:09 GMT -5
Gonzalez and Judon out indefinitely as they seek second opinions. Judon is a torn bicep tendon, no word on what Gonzalez injury is.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 2, 2023 20:30:30 GMT -5
I want to push back on "we can't fairly judge Mac". Guys have to deal with terrible OLs. Brady has done it before. Zach Wilson is dealing with it (and no one is saying he's good, but did just out play Mahomes), Joe Burrow has been making a career out of a terrible line. The throws Mac was making yesterday were just awful and he kept making the same mistakes to the point of I'm not sure he cared by half time. He should have been picked off more than he was. It was a truly dreadful performance. With that said, I thought he's been decent overall this year. Just Mac is deserving of all the criticism he's getting today. Conversely, if he had an elite offensive line, would we be able to fairly judge him as well? When did Brady have to deal with a terrible line? Basically never… he also had a wizard as an Oline coach every year but 2…. That being said - Macs not the guy. He’s just not The year Dante had the nerve to retire before they yanked him right back. Maybe I'm misremembering, but I remember Brady being killed by the Broncos. |
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,862
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Post by cdj on Oct 2, 2023 21:41:15 GMT -5
Gonzalez and Judon out indefinitely as they seek second opinions. Judon is a torn bicep tendon, no word on what Gonzalez injury is. Fairly certain Gonzalez is a separated shoulder That would be a wrap folks |
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 3, 2023 5:08:29 GMT -5
Gonzalez and Judon out indefinitely as they seek second opinions. Judon is a torn bicep tendon, no word on what Gonzalez injury is. Fairly certain Gonzalez is a separated shoulder That would be a wrap folks Let’s bright side this: 1. This is the year to bottom out and tank 2. Defense would be too good with Judon and Gonzalez to do that without them plus the other corners it’s no longer good so they have a chance to tank. 3. White gets way more snaps to improve. 3. Shoulder injury is maybe (?) one of the better injuries we could have hoped for. Gonzalez we know is a stud and he is a super young prospect so spend the year rehabbing and adding strength to comeback a force next year. 4. Let’s go get Williams or Sanders. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 3, 2023 5:55:15 GMT -5
“the Patriots' offensive line was completely dominated by the Cowboys. They allowed a pressure rate of 52.9 percent — by far the most of Jones' career. You're not winning an NFL game with a pocket passer with a pressure rate like that. Period. The run blocking might have been worse, with a 54.7 run stuff percentage. I'm not sure I've ever seen a Patriots line get dominated like that. The right side of the line was completely annihilated in every sense of the word. Mike Onwenu had perhaps the worst game of his career (according to PFF, it was). Vederian Lowe had 14 minus plays, including 6.5 pressures and four stuffed runs by himself.” 🤮 www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2023/10/02/bedards-breakdown-offense-mac-jones-has-to-be-a-lot-better-but-so-does-the-rest-of-offense |
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Post by jmei on Oct 3, 2023 6:12:50 GMT -5
Look, this team wasn’t going to be more than a fringe wild card contender anyways. In some ways, better to have a reset year. It does make it harder to evaluate Mac, though.
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 3, 2023 8:41:07 GMT -5
Look, this team wasn’t going to be more than a fringe wild card contender anyways. In some ways, better to have a reset year. It does make it harder to evaluate Mac, though. Agreed but it’s only a reset year if they win 3 games or less and end up with a top 3 pick |
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Post by jmei on Oct 3, 2023 9:17:48 GMT -5
Look, this team wasn’t going to be more than a fringe wild card contender anyways. In some ways, better to have a reset year. It does make it harder to evaluate Mac, though. Agreed but it’s only a reset year if they win 3 games or less and end up with a top 3 pick That would be ideal, but Mac is going to be too competitive (he's clearly playing for his job now) and the rest of the roster is good enough that I don't see them bottoming out without further injuries. I'd settle for a top-10 pick and clarity on the QB position going forward (one way or another). |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 3, 2023 10:06:58 GMT -5
Well this is when Bill needs to do the right thing and trade off pieces. He won't do it and that's a problem.
We've seen enough of Mac Jones to know his ceiling is a Cousins type QB at best and he has a long way to go to even get there. If you can get a truly elite QB you go get him! I don't know enough about the other QBs to know if there's more than one good option.
I hate to say this, but the injuries almost make me feel better. Still unreal, never seen a team lose its top 4 CBs in the first four weeks of a season.
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Oct 3, 2023 10:37:35 GMT -5
Gonzo and Judon injuries greatly lower the floor on this team. They might be the only two Blue-Chip players on the whole team. The defense went from "can win games on their own" to "might hang around" without them. I'm all for it.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 3, 2023 10:54:58 GMT -5
Is Jack Jones not considered a blue chip guy? Before the guns and injuries everyone seemed to love him. I only ever see Judon and Gonzalez as listed as real talent now.
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Post by rasimon on Oct 3, 2023 11:05:58 GMT -5
Is Jack Jones not considered a blue chip guy? Before the guns and injuries everyone seemed to love him. I only ever see Judon and Gonzalez as listed as real talent now. Jack Jones is TBD. Onwenu is close to a blue chipper, or has been until this year. He doesnt look recovered though. Trent Brown can be a blue chipper, sometimes, which is why he is so frustrating. He can be excellent but more often he seems disinterested. Im sure he's not, but it seems that way. |
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Post by rasimon on Oct 3, 2023 11:07:52 GMT -5
Well this is when Bill needs to do the right thing and trade off pieces. He won't do it and that's a problem. We've seen enough of Mac Jones to know his ceiling is a Cousins type QB at best and he has a long way to go to even get there. If you can get a truly elite QB you go get him! I don't know enough about the other QBs to know if there's more than one good option. I hate to say this, but the injuries almost make me feel better. Still unreal, never seen a team lose its top 4 CBs in the first four weeks of a season. Mac = Neil O'Donnell |
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Oct 3, 2023 11:17:03 GMT -5
Is Jack Jones not considered a blue chip guy? Before the guns and injuries everyone seemed to love him. I only ever see Judon and Gonzalez as listed as real talent now. Jack Jones is TBD. Onwenu is close to a blue chipper, or has been until this year. He doesnt look recovered though. Trent Brown can be a blue chipper, sometimes, which is why he is so frustrating. He can be excellent but more often he seems disinterested. Im sure he's not, but it seems that way. I'm not sure Jack Jones is even the best Jones. Yet, at least. He could be a Red Chipper per Lombardi-type definitions. Onwenu and Brown are too inconsistent IMHO. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 3, 2023 14:21:27 GMT -5
Jack Jones could be that type of player, the skill is there. He's not currently a blue chipper though. He gambles a little too much, at same time he could make plays. Kinda reminds me of Ty Law, it's up to him to reach that level though and I'm certainly worried he never does. The worry is why he was seen as a 6th/7th round pick, it wasn't his talent level, it's Jack Jones the person.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 3, 2023 14:28:46 GMT -5
Well this is when Bill needs to do the right thing and trade off pieces. He won't do it and that's a problem. We've seen enough of Mac Jones to know his ceiling is a Cousins type QB at best and he has a long way to go to even get there. If you can get a truly elite QB you go get him! I don't know enough about the other QBs to know if there's more than one good option. I hate to say this, but the injuries almost make me feel better. Still unreal, never seen a team lose its top 4 CBs in the first four weeks of a season. Mac = Neil O'Donnell Going old school, while I certainly remember watching him when I was younger, I was young so I don't remember much. Looking at his stats I'd say Mac Jones is better. That's not saying much and the league has changed a ton since Neil's time. So maybe that's fair if you take into account how the game has changed. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 3, 2023 14:35:16 GMT -5
Reports Bears might release Claypool if they can't trade him, attitude issues over lack of targets. I'd go after him based on just raw talent, I'm a Notre Dame homer though.
BTW Douglas only played 18 snaps last game, that's criminal. Especially after he made that massive catch early in the game. The only thing worse than signing JuJu, is now playing him over Douglas because you gave him a decent sized contract. It's a lost season, bench JuJu or release him, just play the electric rookie! A blind man can see he's better.
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Post by costpet on Oct 3, 2023 17:16:49 GMT -5
The thing I noticed about Mac is that his throws are too soft. Very little zip. Has a weak throwing arm. That gives the defense a chance to catch up. That means he will never be great, in fact barely good. I’m hoping they tank this year to get a chance for a really good QB in the draft. Without one, they will go nowhere.
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Post by rasimon on Oct 3, 2023 17:28:57 GMT -5
The thing I noticed about Mac is that his throws are too soft. Very little zip. Has a weak throwing arm. That gives the defense a chance to catch up. That means he will never be great, in fact barely good. I’m hoping they tank this year to get a chance for a really good QB in the draft. Without one, they will go nowhere. The problem is, if the dont fix that OL it doesnt matter who they have at QB. |
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Post by costpet on Oct 3, 2023 20:32:12 GMT -5
Yep, the OL is bad, the defense will be lacking their best 2 players and there’s no WR who can stretch the field. Other than that…oh never mind.
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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 3, 2023 23:51:45 GMT -5
The thing I noticed about Mac is that his throws are too soft. Very little zip. Has a weak throwing arm. That gives the defense a chance to catch up. That means he will never be great, in fact barely good. I’m hoping they tank this year to get a chance for a really good QB in the draft. Without one, they will go nowhere. He never had a great arm, but he's throwing like he's on the moon this year. |
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