Patriots 2023 Season Thread

Was it a move to "shore up the defense" or a no-cost move to get a body?

Just so I'm clear, you're saying that because he's the only CB they acquired that it means they made the move to "shore up the defense"?

The implication of which being, they didn't make any other moves so they must feel the team was all set?

Per reports, Jack Jones also missed curfew.

Do you draft Mac Jones? I wasn't as high on Mac Jones as some, but I can't really fault Bill for taking him. You can't win in NFL without a good QB. This year injuries have been rough, 3 of your most important players are going to miss half a season or more. Top 4 CBs injured at same time. Thing is you've been in most games. You might have a horrible record, typically teams with our record don't have that many close games. Even with injuries a good QB is likely difference from crap to playoffs. So it really comes down to Mac Jones, did you say don't draft him? Were you saying move on after last year? Everyone loved Bill O'Brian hire, which was directly from the Owner and guess what we have gotten worse!

Every one after Mac Jones rookie year said one thing we need to go more vertical. By end of rookie year teams were adjusting and he wasn't very good! MP does just that,  vertical offense. Mac Jones sucks, crazy amount of stupid interceptions. He starts acting like a child. They go back to dink and dunk offense, whole league plays close to line hurting your run game and blitzing like crazy. Like I said a ton of times MP wasn't the problem. Yeah listen to Boston sports radio lol. That showed me Mac Jones struggled with deep throws and learning a new offense. Zappe took to the coaching and looked better, as a 4th round rookie.

Bill O'Brian everyone loves him, starts out year doing deep passes they go like 2-18 to start year of passes over 20 yards. He's using Bourne for over half of them and they can't hit anything. Mac Jones isn't a good deep ball passer, he never had to do that at Bama when goes weren't wide open. He needs very good placement and he doesn't have it. They go back to dink and dunk, once again whole league loads up the box making running and short passes hard, while blitzing like crazy. O'Brian offense is less creative than MP was and he's been crazy slow to adjust things. Jets players were mocking our offense because it was so simple to figure out. Where are the trick plays? Why do we basically play two TE sets or a bunch of WR every play?

The hard truth is Mac Jones came in as an advanced rookie QB, but has struggled to improve. My biggest worry watching his College tape was everything was so easy. Dominant OL, Dominant running game, and like 4 first round WR that no College team could match up with. Instead of improving, he's learning the lessons most QBs get in college and he's doing a horrible job with it. The problem is no NFL can recreate his Bama team, those WR were top 15 picks. I was hopeful that last year would be a growing experience, he'd watch the tape and see what he needed to work on. He hasn't. He openly admits to not having Chemistry with Juju, Douglas, Gesecki and the other young guys. That's crazy and on Mac Jones. Douglas is the most explosive player we've had in years, we've known this since training camp opened. It was clear day one. Brady wins a superbowl maybe in 2019 if he has these weapons. Instead he just locks onto Bourne and Henry. Outside of that Bills game he's not reading the field and finding the open guys and best matchups. He's had plenty of time to throw the last 3 games.

I'm not the biggest Mac Jones fan, haven't been since day one. That being said I still expected him to improve and get better, most young players do. It was always to which level with him. It hasn't happened and a lot of this crap is on him. Given his skill set, he needs to do the little things crazy well and he doesn't. 

We've had up and downs all the times over the years. Every team does, look at the Chiefs with the best QB in the game. That offense isn't anything like it was years ago. Sky Moore in 2nd round looks like a bust, Toney a 1st round guy they traded for, same thing. Multiple bad signing of skill players. They have a good QB that finds ways to win.

So honest question if Bill can get a QB, you really don't want him? Bring back Josh McDaniels and let's go! If I'm Kraft I tell Bill one thing, go for it. Resign your key players, then go after elite players, no overpaying so so players. Mortgage the future because in 3 years time he's gone and let's see what we can do. Instead of trading down maybe trade up. Pay Onwenu, Dugger, Brown, Henry, who ever you need to. Then go target guys like Mike Evans, want a big splash go after Chris Jones.

I wouldn't have taken a QB in 4th after having taken Jones a year earlier. If you had to, I would have taken Howell given his upside and play style. I likely would have taken a WR.

When it comes to drafts are we going to focus on the bad top two picks in 2022 or what looks like a HR draft in 2023? Bill liked Will Levis, given his play doesn't that bold well in how he rates QBs?

I'd say there's a near zero chance he retires and I'd be shocked if he's fired. Maybe a slight chance he's traded as he clearly wants to coach till he gets the all time win record. Don't listen to sports radio crap. Report I'm seeing Bill could be fired if he losses in Germany, why? At this point you want this team to tank and get a high pick. You only fire a guy mid season to rally the team like with Raiders. Who wants that? Kraft has to be smart enough to know a top pick at this point is everything. If he's really saying crap like that, Kraft is being stupid and that's something I've never known Kraft to be.

They’re not a good enough team to keep problem guys in check. When you start losing they start ******* off. They don’t have the winning culture where you could absorb some of these guys without much of an issue

Did I want Mac? I admittedly did and bought into his super high accuracy numbers and being a thinker behind center despite all the talent around him and questionable arm. Too many years of Brady made me think other guys could do it. I bought into Billy O hype and should have listened to the Alabama fans who were elated he was gone. With that said, it's a position you just have to keep trying at. Mac is horrible and this year should remove any doubt of that. They didn't take a QB late last year (should have) to say, "we'll try this kid next". They literally have nothing now at the most important position.

So there's two parts to Bill. There's Bill the GM and Bill the coach. Assuming Bill will not coach if he can't GM I absolutely do not want. Bill the GM is missing even the most obvious moves just to prove he's the smartest guy in the room so he won't be doing the new QB any favors. Bill rarely went out of his way to get Brady talent, let alone Mac Jones. I doubt his philosophy will be changing any time soon.

Now, assuming he's willing to step down from GM, I personally don't want him back. I can see why others would. I think his punishing style is antiquated. His bread and butter is special teams and defense and against the Commanders both units were an embarrassment. They just make so many stupid penalties. I don't like that he sent Boutte into the void over a toe drag week 1 and then potentially because he was excited over saying he was excited to take advantage of the opportunity given to him. I don't get the punt against the Saints down 3 touchdowns in their territory on 4th and short before the half. There was also another very bizarre call this year that I'm blanking on. I'm not one who thinks this is proving it was all Brady. I just think his time has come and gone. Are they losing close games because he's coaching them up from a blow out or are they losing close games because they're getting out coached or has Bill's presence just not mattered?

I agree on the firing in Germany. Zero percent chance that happens. Even if the Krafts thought it was time to bring in Vrabel or a young, innovating mind. Bill's resume has earned him the right to avoid public humiliation. You just don't do that to a guy who brought you to 9 Superbowls and won you 6. You work with him in the offseason on a transition plan that leaves him his dignity.

If Bill is back next year, then he better just say we're going to let Bill lead the next generation and get the wins record because his other statements are ringing hollow. Maybe the Bloom thing is still just too fresh in my mind, but he made zero moves and was then fired at the end of the season.

To be fair, I was on the Bill removed as GM train probably before anyone last year when I made that poll question. In reality, I thought it would be Bloom, but had Bill as a close second choice based on how the team was going then. Just the voices have gotten louder since.

The Commanders got worse this year for the rest of the way. Giants too. They got great value for their guys, but they got worse on purpose. The reason why the Patriots assets are depreciated is because they're not great players on expiring contracts on a losing year and the Patriots have zero leverage because they're not getting compensation picks. I don't think the thought was, "we're going to trade Young just to get bad", but I'm sure it was part of the calculation when trading away their best players. What's the difference in the Commanders trading Young for a 3rd and Sweat for a 2nd and punting on the season with a better record and trading Uche for 5th and Dugger for a 4th? They shouldn't get anything for them because the value is less than expected? It's better they just walk for nothing? I really don't understand how or why.

I think the concept of tanking falls squarely on the GM/FO. Players and coaches would never be involved with that. With that said, one example I can think of is the Browns in I think 2017. They traded away veterans for picks and traded for Brock Osweiler to buy a 2nd round pick. They didn't acquire Brock to become a better team.

The Colts I'm on the fence about, but they couldn't find anyone better than Curtis Painter and Dan Orlovsky to play QB? Why didn't they sign Kyle Orton if they were interested in winning? He was available. Being bad and getting Andrew Luck worked out for them. Polian being fired throws a wrench into that. The FO could have just been out on Polian anyways or Polian really thought he built a good roster with competent QB play which is actually worse for him.

IF there was an example of a coach purposefully tanking the only example I'm aware of is the Buccaneers in 2014 against the Saints where they had a sizeable lead and then benched all their starters for the 2nd half and lost.

The Dolphins were accused by ex players of tanking in 2019. They gutted their entire roster. In fact, here's an article detailing how Miami ripped apart their team.
www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/9/15/20861089/miami-dolphins-tanking-2019-draft-picks-cap-space

Would I love for the Patriots to have had a sell off? Yes. Do I expect it? Not really. What I do expect is to get something for guys they themselves have identified as players who will not be apart of their future. I see no value in letting guys walk in FA when the season is lost. If they were in the mix, fine, keep them all. Go for it. I'm also not ripping them for not trading Onwenu or Dugger, but that will happen if they sign contracts elsewhere. Though, caveat, Dugger is a bit older and would have liked to get a 3rd for him since I think the rebuild will take a couple of years, but that's a personal preference. I get why they would want to keep him.

I'm really at a loss for the defense of the Patriots doing nothing. Because the Cardinals or Titans didn't trade anyone for plus value that means it's good the Patriots didn't or that it doesn't matter? A team with the worst record in the AFC that has some of the worst talent and needs a major roster overhaul. Other teams did so it was possible. A team with a better record blew it up. Smaller trades by teams were made this year by other clubs at the deadline. They clearly saw value in guys that weren't going to be apart of their future even if the value was next to nothing. Why should the Titans have even bothered trading Terrell Edmunds and even bother asking for an additional 6th round pick?

Bills get Rasul Douglas from Packers and a 4th rounder for their 3rd
Vikings get Josh Dobbs and 7th round pick from the Cardinals for the Vikings 6th round pick.
Eagles get Kevin Byard while Titans get Terrell Edmunds, 2024 fifth-round pick, 2024 sixth-round pick
Chiefs get Mecole Hardman Jr. from Jets for their 2025 sixth-round pick, 2025 seventh-round pick
Lions get Donovan Peoples-Jones for Cleveland's 5th round pick
Falcons get Van Jefferson and a 7th rounder from Rams in exchange for their 5th round pick.
Vikings get Cam Akers and a 2026 7th round pick from Rams for the Vikings 6th round pick.
Miami get Chase Claypool and a 7th round pick from the Bears in exchange for a 6th round pick.

They really couldn't trade Jalen Mills for a swap of picks 6th and 7th round picks? Uche for a 5th? Somehow get out from under Parker's contract?

I'm also dumbfounded at how quickly these picks are dismissed. Everyone is angry at Kayshon Boutte, a 6th rounder, being benched. Everyone loves Pop Douglas, another 6th rounder. I don't know how to grade OL, but rookie Mafi has gotten significant playing time starting 4 games, a 5th rounder. Depending on how you feel about 4th rounders, Stevenson has been pretty good. I don't know how I feel about Jack Jones at this point in time. I actually forgot Onwenu was a 5th rounder! Those are just recent history and again, late picks have been used to grab disgruntled players from other teams or packaged to move up draft boards. As example, Patriots swapped their 1st rounders and gave up their 4th rounder to take Christian Gonzalez. That was a pretty good move if you ask me. I'm glad they had the capital to do it.

No it's not. I said the Commanders did with their 2 guys. They still punted on the season in exchange for a 2nd and a 3rd. That's what they were worth. I don't see much difference in doing the same with lesser players. Other teams traded away lesser players.

And then cited other teams that gave away players for 5th-7th rounders. Tell me, what is the benefit of keeping Uche if the Patriots thought 3rd and only one team offers a 5th? To prove a point? This assuming the Patriots won't want to pay for Uche this off-season.

They won't get a compensation pick if they make free agent signings and have some of the most cap space in the league next year. So, that part of the equation is out of the formula. Unless they feel like going status quo with this roster. It's highly unlikely they're getting anything for outgoing free agents.

You speak too much in absolutes. Neither we nor they (nor anyone else) knows how the offseason will play out. There are scenarios where they don’t get any comp picks because they sign more eligible free agents than they give up, but there are also scenarios where they do end up with a comp pick because they don’t end up signing a lot of eligible free agents for whatever reason. It’s not 100% odds of a comp pick, but you have to plug some value there to account for that value.