Patriots 2023 Season Thread

If you want to say he's done a decent job of hitting on solid NFL starters, that's fine. I would argue very much that the offense as a whole is incredibly terrible. JuJu, Parker, Tyquan, Reagor, OL play (outside of Brown and Onwenu), Gesecki, Jones, Zappe have been pretty bad. I know you mentioned Jones and Zappe, but that's kind of a big piece to the offense. Stevenson and Zeke have been very good. Henry is so-so. PFF doesn't have Henry in the top 10. I'm a big fan of Pop Douglas and hope his body can withstand an NFL season. I like Boutte's potential, but there's no way he's considered a win at the moment. He has 2 catches for 19 yards. I know a lot of those guys aren't draft picks either.

Losing Kendrick Bourne, Matthew Judon and Christian Gonzalez hurts.

2023 was a pretty good draft for Bill for the most part. I don't mind taking a punter at 6 if he's good. So far he whiffed badly on the kicker in the 4th round that he moved up to get and let someone who had stabilized the position go. He broke a franchise record to sign Malik Cunningham as a UDFA, played him out of position and let another team grab him off the practice squad in the same season. He got Christian Gonzalez who looks like an absolute stud and Demario Douglas. Promising outlook on Boutte, but he's done nothing this year to warrant any grade.


2022 was pretty abysmal. Their best draft pick they released this year.

2021 I like Christian Barmore. He's more of solid regular I think, but not bad by any means. Same with Stevenson. He's good. I don't know if he's in the top 10 of RB.

2020 Kyle Dugger is a borderline stud. Uche is decent in his limited role. Onwenu was a home run, especially where picked.

2019 absolutely abysmal.

Over the last 5 years that's Gonzalez, Douglas, Onwenu, Dugger, and maybe Stevenson and Barmore as plus talent. With 1 guy being someone truly special (potentially).

I don't know what is considered good by NFL standards, but that seems rather low.

Also, that's great he hit on Dugger or the punter, but where the hits occur I think also matter. Missing on a QB is a bigger deal than missing on a safety. He also took Dugger over Trevon Diggs, Jonathan Taylor, and Jalen Hurts in the same round, but he still hit on the player that he took. Not trying to sound like I'm bashing him for Dugger, but think there's also a little nuance to some of those wins as well.


But I don't know literally any other teams drafting. It's just hard to envision anything more than middling.

A few followups

redsoxfan2 wrote "If he's been good at drafting, why is the roster so bad?" He has been average at drafting, but his draft capital has been near the bottom to start with, which results in not much talent added via the draft.

I didn't count UDFA for the Pats or for any team.

Im pretty sure the Pats will rank worse after we get AVs for 2023 and count 2023 draft in the analysis. Why? Gonzalez was very good but only played about 3 games.
Douglas has been good but will only play about 40% of snaps (if that). White and Sow might get to 50% of snaps and were passable. Everyone else has either not played significant snaps, or has been terrible, or both. Well punter was ok. Other than Strange (who was passable) we got almost nothing from 2022 draftees.

I'm not sure I'd really count UDFAs as part of a draft class honestly. They're literally free agents able to sign anywhere. Bill has done a good job identifying guys to take a flyer on.

It's not like they've been winning Superbowls these last 5 years. Their draft order since 2019:

23 - 17 - home run.
22 - 29 - meh - was considered a reach too
21 - 15 - whiff
20 - 37 - Nailed that pick despite there being a few better options.
19 - 32 - Everyone at the time knew this was a bad pick. At least, bad compared to what was available. I think this pick is what really started to drive the narrative.


At random I'll compare to the Chiefs. I have no knowledge of their draft. Are the Patriots ranked higher?
23 - 31
22 - 21
21 - 58
20 - 32
19 - 56

I think context in knowing why they rank higher or lower should be a factor.

I'm not being snide. I really would like to understand where they rank and compare.

2023 class has a lot of potential, but let's not forget last year a lot of people were excited for that class. Jack Jones was an absolute steal.

I will say his free agent signings haven't been terribly good either so that likely puts more focus on his drafting.

Not that this is shocking, but Patriots might have to engage in a bidding war for Kyle Dugger. He has expressed a desire to stay, but if someone wants to offer him a stupid contract, he's gone (Unless the Patriots use the tag on him)

www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/nfl/patriots-star-appears-likely-to-test-free-agent-market/ar-AA1lSzgY

If I'm New England I reserve the tag for Onwenu unless they're able to work out an extension. I'd also consider it for Trent Brown as he's been good and I don't want him for more than a year at a time and would over pay for short-term deals.

I'd keep Duggar, because we need good football players and we have money. But Top of Market safety money gets a little rough, I agree.

Trent Brown strikes me as someone who'd be offended to be Franchise Tagged. 

How many teams have 3 stud offensive weapons?

Just because you have money doesn’t mean you spend it inefficiently. Unless Adrian Phillips is washed, you have him and he’s not even playing. And you have Mapu sitting on the bench. And Bledsoe on the practice squad. You can’t be spending big money on a guy like Duggar who’s not a real difference maker.

No offense but trying to down play those two undrafted free agents really just shows you are kinda clueless about the draft. You do a redraft after there first four years of value to Patriots those guys are likely first round picks, you got them as undrafted free agents. Those are grand slams moves. You can't try and judge the Patriots without knowing what the league does!

Absolutely destroy Bill for Harry, but also realize every team in the league in the Period will likely have a draft bust during that time frame. You have to understand that, because if you don't you look at things like you do and others on here. To actually judge Bill you need to compare him to the rest of the league. It's why I keep saying 50% bust rate in first round, it's why I look at the rates per position.

This isn't your typical 3 win team having a chance to win almost every game even with injuries to key players. Zappe has been able to get much more out of our weapons on offense and he's a good backup QB in my book. Juju best game of the year, Henry looking like a top ten TE again. Mac Jones sucks and literally killed this team with mistakes at key moments all year. Sure you can blame Bill, but no one was calling to dump Mac Jones! Everyone like you blamed it on our OC. I was the only one on here saying otherwise!

3 offensive weapons that are true #1 weapons? Jimmed was very clear, true #1 weapons, not just guys who put up numbers on good teams. A couple of teams have two, no most Superbowl contenders don't have weapons like that. Chiefs won the Superbowl with one weapon like that last year. We need a QB and one true #1 weapon, then a good surrounding cast. It's why I'd love to go Williams than trade back up for a WR like EE from Ohio State. That's my dream draft right now. Then TE and OT.

You can't easily fully understand the draft, it's going to take a ton of time for you to fully understand it. It's why most people don't. 

LIke I said Bill biggest issue has been spending on free agents and you could add not making enough trades. Look at Dolphins and Eagles, they trade for #1 WR. Rams won a superbowl trading for tons of players. Multiple ways to build teams. Now given the Patriots position trades didn't make a ton of sense for high end players. You get a franchise player at QB and they do, maybe that's how they get a #1 weapon.

JC Jackson was a bit overrated when he was here and I was guilty of it as well. He gambled on interceptions. In 2021 he was 2nd in interceptions and 26th in receptions allowed. He made a lot of money off that and is considered one of the worst FA signings by a team. Bill didn't think he was worth the contract and was right. He saw through what the player was doing and let him walk despite not having much at the position at that time. It was a smart decision since he's been a disaster ever since.

One thing to note though, I was doing a 5 year snap shot from Brady's last year to today. JC was signed in 2018. I do see an article from Bleacher Report that he was regarded as the 30th best talent in 2022 from that draft class.


I don't see any mocks that have Jackobi going in a first round, but he was solid for nothing. Unfortunately, the team didn't want to spend on steady performance.

The Patriots also won a ton of games last year they shouldn't have on the heels of defensive scores that are not happening this year. They won a game against the Bills because neither team could throw the ball which was crucial to them getting into the playoffs, only to lose in historic fashion.

I blame both Bills, both QBs and the offensive weapons. I thought it was concerning Alabama fans were glad to be rid of Billy O. I got some minor push back on that and someone was saying he was a top rated OC before going to college so let that one go. I think the team looks better with Zappe for one half of games.

Juju's best game was great yards-wise, but he was also 4 for 6 in receptions in which I think one of those targets turned into an interception. It was also 1 game. The Chargers game he was 1 for 3 for 11 yards. Now he's going to miss 2 games since the Steelers game with an ankle injury.

Mac Jones does suck. You put Patrick Mahomes here and I'm betting JuJu and Henry and whomever look good. I don't think it's a ringing endorsement for JuJu though that he needs an elite QB to look good.

That makes sense on the offensive weapons arguments.

Why did Tomlin go with Tribusky over Rudolph? Guy looks like Joe Montana out there today.

Pickens seems to be happy about the switch.

Pretty sure every game is going the wrong way so far this week. Better bet on the Patriots with win with these trends.