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Patriots 2023 Season Thread
cdj
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Posts: 15,862 
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Post by cdj on Dec 25, 2023 0:53:18 GMT -5
That post was after the first 2 drives where he fumbled and made the most miserable pass to a wide open guy on 3rd down. He then played like not even a backup after that, he played like a starting caliber QB. To the point where now I’m thinking if they beef up the Oline and get a #1 WR I’ve convinced myself of an AFCCG appearance at the very least because this league is mediocre. He certainly made that initial post look quite bad lol So, a 2022 Dane Brugler scouting report for you to assess (Is this an NFL starter?): STRENGTHS: Quick setup and compact arm-action release … athletic pocket mover with footwork that is tied to his mind … slides to buy time and efficiently regain balance … works through things quickly with the field sense to understand where his outlets are … very accurate in the short-to-intermediate game, driving the ball on outs or crossers … coaches say he developed resiliency over the past four years … high-intangibles player with hard-working and humble attitude (head coach ... : “There’s no greater competitor that I’ve been around …”) … durable four-year starter, starting 46 consecutive games … the most productive quarterback in school history, holding almost every ... passing record. WEAKNESSES: Undersized, and the pocket can eat him up … arm strength is mediocre, especially when he doesn’t incorporate his base or hips … consistently late and off-the-mark as a deep-ball passer, giving defenders time to adjust and make a play … caught bird-dogging his targets … process is too easily disrupted by the pass rush, allowing his mechanics and reads to break down … doesn’t take care of the football (fumbled in six different games in 2021, including three against ...) … was benched during the 2021 ... rivalry game against … total touchdown production declined from 35 as a sophomore to 24 as a junior and 20 as a senior. I removed some identifying info. Would you want that guy leading your NFL team? That’s Purdy. I just bet on him -6 tomorrow so I believe he can play when surrounded with high end talent Flaws can be masked if you surround guys with high end talent, the way Zappe is playing perhaps he could look as good with guys around him. He’ll always have to battle the size stuff and defenders trying to knock it down, but the thing that he has that Jones doesn’t have at the moment is toughness and I think that’s what the separator is between the two. Zappe is throwing with conviction, and not tossing everything off his back foot like Mac does. Credit to the O-line tonight too, they gave him time to throw most of the night |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 25, 2023 0:56:08 GMT -5
That post was after the first 2 drives where he fumbled and made the most miserable pass to a wide open guy on 3rd down. He then played like not even a backup after that, he played like a starting caliber QB. To the point where now I’m thinking if they beef up the Oline and get a #1 WR I’ve convinced myself of an AFCCG appearance at the very least because this league is mediocre. He certainly made that initial post look quite bad lol So, a 2022 Dane Brugler scouting report for you to assess (Is this an NFL starter?): STRENGTHS: Quick setup and compact arm-action release … athletic pocket mover with footwork that is tied to his mind … slides to buy time and efficiently regain balance … works through things quickly with the field sense to understand where his outlets are … very accurate in the short-to-intermediate game, driving the ball on outs or crossers … coaches say he developed resiliency over the past four years … high-intangibles player with hard-working and humble attitude (head coach ... : “There’s no greater competitor that I’ve been around …”) … durable four-year starter, starting 46 consecutive games … the most productive quarterback in school history, holding almost every ... passing record. WEAKNESSES: Undersized, and the pocket can eat him up … arm strength is mediocre, especially when he doesn’t incorporate his base or hips … consistently late and off-the-mark as a deep-ball passer, giving defenders time to adjust and make a play … caught bird-dogging his targets … process is too easily disrupted by the pass rush, allowing his mechanics and reads to break down … doesn’t take care of the football (fumbled in six different games in 2021, including three against ...) … was benched during the 2021 ... rivalry game against … total touchdown production declined from 35 as a sophomore to 24 as a junior and 20 as a senior. I removed some identifying info. Would you want that guy leading your NFL team? Sounds like Purdy. |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Dec 25, 2023 10:42:57 GMT -5
Purdy indeed. Zappe was rated ahead of him in that draft (QB #7 vs. #12)
Some more QB Fun Facts:
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Post by rasimon on Dec 25, 2023 10:56:34 GMT -5
Wow the Pats offense looked pretty decent...against one of the worst defenses in the NFL. Den is 3rd worst in YdsAllowed (Was, Cin are worse) and 4th worst in PtsAllowed (Was, Cin, Car). Pff has Den's Overall Def as 2nd worst (Arz), RunDef 3rd worst (Arz, TB), PassRush 10th worst, and Coverage bottom of the bucket! If only the Pats could play all of their games against terrible defenses!
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Post by rasimon on Dec 25, 2023 11:06:18 GMT -5
Sucks we won. The 2nd pick is worth approximately the 4th pick + the 21st pick. Winning that game was the equivalent of throwing away the 21st pick (or using it on a Guard who should go in the 3rd or 4th round). www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 25, 2023 11:36:19 GMT -5
Purdy indeed. Zappe was rated ahead of him in that draft (QB #7 vs. #12) Some more QB Fun Facts: Not really a fair comparison given you miss Manning by one year and Brady went to half those Superbowls, while the other Manning wasn't drafted by Giants but traded on draft day. |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Dec 25, 2023 12:12:35 GMT -5
Purdy indeed. Zappe was rated ahead of him in that draft (QB #7 vs. #12) Some more QB Fun Facts: Not really a fair comparison given you miss Manning by one year and Brady went to half those Superbowls, while the other Manning wasn't drafted by Giants but traded on draft day. I wasn't shooting for a "comparison," (maybe Kelley was?) or to make any sort of grandiose claim -- just to remind that top 5 pick is no guarantee & is not necessary. It's nice. It (perhaps) increases a team's odds. But it's no elixir. Agreed that is was kind of sneaky to exclude Eli via the trade thing. But, of course, he was a .500 QB for his career, missed the playoffs his last 8 years and convicted of selling fake "authentic game-worn" gear to his team's fanbase. So excluding him via sneaky technicality seems perfectly reasonable. |
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,862
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Post by cdj on Dec 25, 2023 12:27:48 GMT -5
I forgot about the Eli merch stuff lol
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 25, 2023 12:55:29 GMT -5
Everyone knows I love Zappe since last year, he's still has a ways to go before I say he's a good starter long-term. Right now he's still a good backup/ fringe starter. Only way he changes that is by starting for a full year.
The draft just got a lot more interesting, no it's not a good thing, but it's more interesting. Jets game scares me a lot. Part of the reason I don't buy the we've moved on from Bill crap but allow him to keep coaching. We always knew he wouldn't tank and would try to win every game left. So if it happens and we miss out on a stud QB, Robert Kraft is to blame. Frankly I think him being involved more than Usually the last few years is part of the problem. We know he loves Mac Jones, we know he forced our new OC on Bill to help Mac Jones, did he also force Bill to keep starting him last year? Would have been interesting if Zappe started the rest of last season and then this one. You'd know what you have, much more than we do now.
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Post by congusgambler33 on Dec 25, 2023 13:15:07 GMT -5
I know..4-11 sounds so much better than 3-12...what OT does Bill have in mind?
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Post by marrcus on Dec 25, 2023 15:49:01 GMT -5
After two missed kicks in the mile-high city you had to know the last one was just going to be smoked down the middle and the team is now left to face the law of unintended consequences in the draft. They will likely go 1/1 for the final two weeks. Bill wants both but will go all out v.Jets.
Zappe had key personnel missing (Henry,Stevenson) and he still handled Denver's D. And they were talking playoffs? Pats D toyed with team for three quarters. I pretty much had the team pegged for a 4wins total weeks ago. I wasn't counting on 5 (or even 6) but if they had relieved Mac a few weeks earlier they likely would would have got 6 (sched so easy) but the D hasn't quit. Right now it looks 5 and who probably wants Maye before then?
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,862
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Post by cdj on Dec 25, 2023 21:09:55 GMT -5
Zappe better than Purdy?
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mobaz
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Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Dec 26, 2023 10:29:08 GMT -5
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Post by rasimon on Dec 26, 2023 13:31:04 GMT -5
He likes Guyton better than JC Latham? and Fuaga? That seems weird. |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Dec 26, 2023 14:12:38 GMT -5
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Dec 26, 2023 14:21:00 GMT -5
He likes Guyton better than JC Latham? and Fuaga? That seems weird. Not sure what's weird about it -- Brugler had him #22 & ahead of those two also (although midseason ranking). Expect opinions will shift post Senior Bowl & combine. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 26, 2023 14:33:14 GMT -5
Purdy is 16-4 in regular season and 2-1 in playoffs, his lone loss was a game he left due to injury. So no Zappe has a ways to go. It's not really a fair comparison though, Purdy has some of the best offensive talent in the game to help him. Zappe played last game down likely our top 3 weapons, plus Juju, with a rookie 6th round pick being his best Weapon. Next two weeks will tell you a lot more, as Bills and Jets both have good defenses.
If you take out his first start, where he split reps with Mac Jones and reports saying Mac Jones got more reps with starters. His last 3 games we average over 21 points a game, that's middle of the pack, from 2nd to last with Mac Jones. Zappe has that trait of getting better as season goes along and he builds up more chemistry with players. Mac Jones always got worse as the season went along. Still can't believe he had that game versus Bills and then just imploded. That might have been his best game of his career.
We'll see how the next two games go, but real chance Zappe is our starter next year and they bring in another rookie QB not in the first round. Also very real chance Zappe just saved Bills job.
I pegged them at 4 wins, but I'm very worried now. Bills still aren't playing well and the Jets keep rotating QBs
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cdj
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Posts: 15,862
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Post by cdj on Dec 26, 2023 14:37:06 GMT -5
We are absolutely beating the Jets, it’s impossible to lose to them I’m afraid
I can’t see Siemian leading a td drive. Maybe Breece hits a home run. That and defensive TD’s are their best bet
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 26, 2023 14:42:19 GMT -5
He likes Guyton better than JC Latham? and Fuaga? That seems weird. Not sure what's weird about it -- Brugler had him #22 & ahead of those two also (although midseason ranking). Expect opinions will shift post Senior Bowl & combine. PFF has Guyton top of 3rd round, the other two middle first, but all 3 play RT, not LT. |
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,862
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Post by cdj on Dec 26, 2023 15:48:33 GMT -5
When we pick 6th just go with either of the big LSU guys (Daniels or Nabers)
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Dec 26, 2023 16:05:03 GMT -5
Not sure what's weird about it -- Brugler had him #22 & ahead of those two also (although midseason ranking). Expect opinions will shift post Senior Bowl & combine. PFF has Guyton top of 3rd round, the other two middle first, but all 3 play RT, not LT. Now. From the write-up: "Comp: Lane Johnson Watching Guyton -- a former defensive lineman -- glide across the field in pass protection and run blocking makes it hard to not see Johnson, a former Sooner. Guyton is 6-foot-7 and 315 pounds with beautiful agility and length. He's still developing his full toolbox at right tackle but has the lower-body traits to play the left or right side in the pros. In 29 college games (15 starts), Guyton allowed one sack." |
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 26, 2023 17:43:32 GMT -5
What do you think of doing something like trading for Fields and drafting Harrison Jr or Bowers?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 26, 2023 18:20:26 GMT -5
PFF has Guyton top of 3rd round, the other two middle first, but all 3 play RT, not LT. Now. From the write-up: "Comp: Lane Johnson Watching Guyton -- a former defensive lineman -- glide across the field in pass protection and run blocking makes it hard to not see Johnson, a former Sooner. Guyton is 6-foot-7 and 315 pounds with beautiful agility and length. He's still developing his full toolbox at right tackle but has the lower-body traits to play the left or right side in the pros. In 29 college games (15 starts), Guyton allowed one sack." He's the lowest graded OT among all OTs in the top 165 of PFF rankings, has given up 12 QB hits/pressures this year not even starting every game. He hasn't even mastered college RT. I don't doubt the upside, you just don't take a project OT in the top 15. 15 starts is also very bad, Alt gave up one sack the last two years in 25 starts for example at LT. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 26, 2023 18:25:12 GMT -5
What do you think of doing something like trading for Fields and drafting Harrison Jr or Bowers? I have zero problems with drafting Harrison or Bowers, trading for Fields? No, unless it's crazy cheap. Why not role with Zappe and draft a rookie QB? It's a deep class unless a bunch of guys go back to college. |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Dec 26, 2023 19:11:43 GMT -5
Now. From the write-up: "Comp: Lane Johnson Watching Guyton -- a former defensive lineman -- glide across the field in pass protection and run blocking makes it hard to not see Johnson, a former Sooner. Guyton is 6-foot-7 and 315 pounds with beautiful agility and length. He's still developing his full toolbox at right tackle but has the lower-body traits to play the left or right side in the pros. In 29 college games (15 starts), Guyton allowed one sack." He's the lowest graded OT among all OTs in the top 165 of PFF rankings, has given up 12 QB hits/pressures this year not even starting every game. He hasn't even mastered college RT. I don't doubt the upside, you just don't take a project OT in the top 15. 15 starts is also very bad, Alt gave up one sack the last two years in 25 starts for example at LT. As one who has played much too often with the PFF draft machine, I can say their rankings on several players are wonky. But I don't want to argue the merits of PFF. I only want to say I don't think it adds much to any conversation to play their ranking like a trump card. My OP wasn't advocating for Guyton, merely questioning why his placement was considered "weird." The ESPN guy who did film study on him ranked him high on his board but still behind the top tier guys & I quoted his reasoning for the board to access. For this I get PFF shoved at me? Also, I mentioned Dane Brugler had him fairly high at # 22. His reasoning: "Similar to Amarius Mims, Guyton’s draft projection is based more on traits and upside than body of work, which can make it challenging to accurately rank him at this point. But he offers the big-man athleticism and movement skills that make it easy to be optimistic for his future. Several NFL scouts believe his potential is greater than that of Anton Harrison, a 2023 first-rounder from Oklahoma." Note he incorporated "several NFL scouts" into his opinion. But again, as I said in my OP, it is early. Much will change after the senior bowl & combine. And maybe PFF will adjust their rating when they see how far off they are, like they do every year with many prospects as we get closer to the draft. |
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