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9/8-9/10 Red Sox vs. Orioles Series Thread
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Post by incandenza on Sept 8, 2023 22:13:45 GMT -5
Cora - "Houck's stuff was good - lots of swing and miss, we will find a way. Got to keep working" Offense "not putting the ball in play, so can't score runs - Bradish one of the best pitchers in MLB" "Os have been on the way since Sept 21 - hitters controlling the zone, chase rate down, good D - earning best team in AL standing" Not sure what game Cora was watching. 10 on base in 5 innings not usually an indicator of great stuff. Cora wasn't really wrong though. It was the same story as always - he was an ace inning 1 through 5, then he fell apart. It was 6 guys on base through 5 innings, then 4 in the 6th.
He's got an xFIP of 4.00 and an xERA around 4.18, but an ERA more than a run higher - exactly what you'd expect because he bunches all his hits and walks together into that one bad inning at the end of each start.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 8, 2023 23:06:24 GMT -5
playoff chances now 2.6%
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Sept 9, 2023 6:43:03 GMT -5
I just took a peek at the revised rankings at this home page for pitchers. Who's coming along? Perales at 7 (est 2026 arrival in the majors) Gonzalez at 8 (est 2025 arrival) Drohan at 13 (struggling at AAA) Walter at 15 (yikes) everyone else ranked 25 downward. Going to have to go shopping for some arms. Am I the only one that thinks Sale and Price contracts scared the bejesus out of ownership? Maybe, but Henry has been pretty consistent on not wanting to go long term with pitchers over 30 even before Price and Sale.
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Post by ematz1423 on Sept 9, 2023 7:01:25 GMT -5
Am I the only one that thinks Sale and Price contracts scared the bejesus out of ownership? Maybe, but Henry has been pretty consistent on not wanting to go long term with pitchers over 30 even before Price and Sale. Which in all honesty they aren't wrong. Seems to me most 5+ year deals for pitchers 30+ go belly up. Only problem for the next 1-3 years is they need pitching pretty badly. So they're between a rock and a hard place if they can't reel in Yamamoto. They absolutely need at least one starter that's of a much higher class than the kluber/richards/wacha mold.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Sept 9, 2023 7:20:25 GMT -5
Maybe, but Henry has been pretty consistent on not wanting to go long term with pitchers over 30 even before Price and Sale. Which in all honesty they aren't wrong. Seems to me most 5+ year deals for pitchers 30+ go belly up. Only problem for the next 1-3 years is they need pitching pretty badly. So they're between a rock and a hard place if they can't reel in Yamamoto. They absolutely need at least one starter that's of a much higher class than the kluber/richards/wacha mold. They do. I just have a hard time believing they'll pull the trigger. Yamamoto is the most realistic target.
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Post by greenmonster on Sept 9, 2023 8:50:59 GMT -5
Which in all honesty they aren't wrong. Seems to me most 5+ year deals for pitchers 30+ go belly up. Only problem for the next 1-3 years is they need pitching pretty badly. So they're between a rock and a hard place if they can't reel in Yamamoto. They absolutely need at least one starter that's of a much higher class than the kluber/richards/wacha mold. They do. I just have a hard time believing they'll pull the trigger. Yamamoto is the most realistic target. Sounds like there will be plenty of teams in on Yamamoto. Sox/Bloom will need to stretch themselves at some point either by offering more $$ or more years than they "value" him to be worth. If they don't someone else will and the Sox will end up shopping in the "Rehab Line" again
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Sept 9, 2023 10:47:57 GMT -5
Is it the “rehab line” or “rehab lane”. If it’s rehab lane, isn’t that the lane closest to off ramps, exits and breakdown lane … and the farthest from the fast lane/passing lane. The Sox 200% need to get pitchers from the passing lane if we want to pass the Orioles, Rays, Jays, nyfy en route to the postseason. If the FO has learned anything it should be this.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Sept 9, 2023 11:09:08 GMT -5
Should they decide to play Rafaela again, here is a catch I hope to one day see him top:
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Sept 9, 2023 11:19:22 GMT -5
Meanwhile, KC goes with an opener today. Tor trying to hold onto Wildcard#3
300 pm
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Sept 9, 2023 11:20:12 GMT -5
Verdugo Devers Turner Casas Yoshida Story Abreu Valdez Wong
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 9, 2023 11:22:02 GMT -5
So, no Rafaela yet again.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Sept 9, 2023 11:49:41 GMT -5
It is stunning to look back at the Sox since 2018: 2019 they finished 19 games out 2020 they finished 16 out (in 60 games) 2021 they finished 8 out 2022 they finished 21 out
2023 they are 17.5 out.
So average of a bit over 16 games out of first these past 5 years. Neither competitive nor fun.
Add: we can say competitive means making it in as a WC, but if tou are 16 games back of the division winner (with likely one other WC ahead of you from the division, too), you aren’t competitive. You might get *lucky* in the postseason, but you are demonstrably worse than the division winner. Competitive would be a few games behind.
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TearsIn04
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Post by TearsIn04 on Sept 9, 2023 11:50:25 GMT -5
Should they decide to play Rafaela again, here is a catch I hope to one day see him top: And if he does top that, I hope he does it with Yoshinobu Yamamato on the mound for the Red Sox!
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Post by ephus on Sept 9, 2023 11:55:44 GMT -5
It’s a gorgeous day here in the Chicago suburbs. No Rafaela. Hoping for better results. Enjoy the game all. I’ll check in later.
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TearsIn04
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Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
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Post by TearsIn04 on Sept 9, 2023 11:57:00 GMT -5
Not sure what game Cora was watching. 10 on base in 5 innings not usually an indicator of great stuff. Cora wasn't really wrong though. It was the same story as always - he was an ace inning 1 through 5, then he fell apart. It was 6 guys on base through 5 innings, then 4 in the 6th.
He's got an xFIP of 4.00 and an xERA around 4.18, but an ERA more than a run higher - exactly what you'd expect because he bunches all his hits and walks together into that one bad inning at the end of each start.
For me, Houck's profile screams out "RELIEF ACE." I'd like to deploy him in that role starting in 2025 when KJ and Martin will be gone. Between him, a healthy Whitlock and some decent guys behind them, they should be able to get by without an expensive closer. I look at C and closer as two positions (along with SP, of course) that it is great to develop. Filling C or closer on the FA market is expensive. I'm glad we have Wong and Teel potentially locking down C in a cost-controlled way for years and would like to see the same thing in the BP.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 9, 2023 12:05:55 GMT -5
Walter down, Zack Weiss, welcome to Fenway!
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Post by bloomstaxonomy on Sept 9, 2023 12:21:15 GMT -5
It is stunning to look back at the Sox since 2018: 2019 they finished 19 games out 2020 they finished 16 out (in 60 games) 2021 they finished 8 out 2022 they finished 21 out 2023 they are 17.5 out. So average of a bit over 16 games out of first these past 5 years. Neither competitive nor fun. Add: we can say competitive means making it in as a WC, but if tou are 16 games back of the division winner (with likely one other WC ahead of you from the division, too), you aren’t competitive. You might get *lucky* in the postseason, but you are demonstrably worse than the division winner. Competitive would be a few games behind. If you don’t think the 2021 team was competitive, I’m not sure what to tell you to convince you otherwise, but that’s an odd statement. And it’s similarly odd to take the term “competitive” and apply it relative to other teams when the Red Sox have no control over other teams’ roster, schedule, spending, etc. So the 95-win 2009 Red Sox weren’t competitive because they finished 8 games back of the 103-win Yankees?
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Sept 9, 2023 12:36:58 GMT -5
It is stunning to look back at the Sox since 2018: 2019 they finished 19 games out 2020 they finished 16 out (in 60 games) 2021 they finished 8 out 2022 they finished 21 out 2023 they are 17.5 out. So average of a bit over 16 games out of first these past 5 years. Neither competitive nor fun. Add: we can say competitive means making it in as a WC, but if tou are 16 games back of the division winner (with likely one other WC ahead of you from the division, too), you aren’t competitive. You might get *lucky* in the postseason, but you are demonstrably worse than the division winner. Competitive would be a few games behind. If you don’t think the 2021 team was competitive, I’m not sure what to tell you to convince you otherwise, but that’s an odd statement. And it’s similarly odd to take the term “competitive” and apply it relative to other teams when the Red Sox have no control over other teams’ roster, schedule, spending, etc. So the 95-win 2009 Red Sox weren’t competitive because they finished 8 games back of the 103-win Yankees? Well, first, 8 is half of 16. Maybe that is the outer range of not getting blown out in the regular season… I don’t know. Still the 2021 team was not *that* competitive in the regular season. (Do we look back at 2018 and view the Yankees as close to us? They finished 8 back, too). But secondly, yes, “competitive” is relative. It means you can compete evenly with a given opponent. In the playoffs, those given opponents are teams who finished ahead of WC teams. If it is close (or in your example, it is two great teams), they are likely competitive. If they have not been close all season, it is unlikely to be close in the playoffs. Again, this isn’t football, so funny things can happen more often. But that is still fluky, not a sign of being truly competitive. (Consider that the Sox lost the last 3 straight games to the Astros 23-3 in 2021…. order was restored).
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Post by bloomstaxonomy on Sept 9, 2023 13:05:17 GMT -5
If you don’t think the 2021 team was competitive, I’m not sure what to tell you to convince you otherwise, but that’s an odd statement. And it’s similarly odd to take the term “competitive” and apply it relative to other teams when the Red Sox have no control over other teams’ roster, schedule, spending, etc. So the 95-win 2009 Red Sox weren’t competitive because they finished 8 games back of the 103-win Yankees? Well, first, 8 is half of 16. Maybe that is the outer range of not getting blown out in the regular season… I don’t know. Still the 2021 team was not *that* competitive in the regular season. (Do we look back at 2018 and view the Yankees as close to us? They finished 8 back, too). But secondly, yes, “competitive” is relative. It means you can compete evenly with a given opponent. In the playoffs, those given opponents are teams who finished ahead of WC teams. If it is close (or in your example, it is two great teams), they are likely competitive. If they have not been close all season, it is unlikely to be close in the playoffs. Again, this isn’t football, so funny things can happen more often. But that is still fluky, not a sign of being truly competitive. (Consider that the Sox lost the last 3 straight games to the Astros 23-3 in 2021…. order was restored). I’ll agree to disagree and move on, but I think “close” and “competitive” are two different things in terms of division standings. They are independent of one another. In terms of competing evenly, the Red Sox are in a league with 29 other teams (or fewer, obviously, if you want to keep it to the AL) and so the 92-win 2021 team was, on the whole, very competitive against the league(s) to which they belong. This is getting into “no true Scotsman” territory here. I guess our definitions of competitive are different, and that’s fine.
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on Sept 9, 2023 13:10:07 GMT -5
So, no Rafaela yet again. Skip is delusional
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 9, 2023 13:12:59 GMT -5
So, no Rafaela yet again. Skip is delusional The Hunt for Red (Sox) October!
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Sept 9, 2023 13:27:44 GMT -5
Walter down, Zack Weiss, welcome to Fenway! Throw an inning, get sent back down. Repeat.
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Post by julyanmorley on Sept 9, 2023 13:41:10 GMT -5
I don't have a problem with them not waving the white flag yet. If you're still trying to win, Rafaela as the backup SS and defensive replacement in the OF is a reasonable role for him.
One thing that is interesting is that they seem to think Valdez is the org's best option at 2B vs a RHP.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Sept 9, 2023 13:51:50 GMT -5
Which in all honesty they aren't wrong. Seems to me most 5+ year deals for pitchers 30+ go belly up. Only problem for the next 1-3 years is they need pitching pretty badly. So they're between a rock and a hard place if they can't reel in Yamamoto. They absolutely need at least one starter that's of a much higher class than the kluber/richards/wacha mold. They do. I just have a hard time believing they'll pull the trigger. Yamamoto is the most realistic target. So apprarently the achilles heal of the O's is starting pitching too and the team is full of homegrown talent which means they are a competitor for what we need the most too. The Sox at a minimum need 2 quality starting pitchers, and I'd claim they should get 3 but I just don't see them doing that.
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Post by cba82 on Sept 9, 2023 13:59:04 GMT -5
“One thing that is interesting is that they seem to think Valdez is the org's best option at 2B vs a RHP.” — I’ve asked this before, but wasn’t Urias brought here to be the everyday second baseman?
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