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9/28-10/1 Red Sox @ Orioles Series Thread
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Post by yuchangclan on Sept 28, 2023 20:36:31 GMT -5
Since September 5 record 4-17 And Cora has a vote of confidence from management!! It’s infuriating!
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cdj
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Posts: 14,003
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Post by cdj on Sept 28, 2023 20:37:39 GMT -5
Since September 5 record 4-17 Totally didn’t quit though Back to back lifeless shutouts is completely normal stuff
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 28, 2023 20:38:59 GMT -5
Cora on the after game interview said he thought the team has been playing pretty good - just not winning.
No words for that.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Sept 28, 2023 20:40:19 GMT -5
Delusion, that’s the word for it
Shutout in 3 of 5. In a 4th game they scored 2 runs in a loss. Totally normal, nothing to see here. They definitely are trying super hard out there, they aren’t twiddling their thumbs waiting for the clock to run out at all.
162 games of this effort next year and Cora has himself a real winner!
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Sept 28, 2023 20:41:05 GMT -5
Since September 5 record 4-17 In 2011 they went 7-20. Are they legit about to have their worst month of September in team history? On to wherever they're holding the draft lottery...
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 28, 2023 20:42:11 GMT -5
So - has the team quit on Cora? Has Cora lost the team? Or have the players just generally checked out? Missing their golf games?
No matter what the reason (all or none), September has not only been a pretty damning indictment on Cora, but some of the veteran players on the team. Devers, Turner, Story and especially Verdugo have largely been no shows.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Sept 28, 2023 20:43:50 GMT -5
So - has the team quit on Cora? Has Cora lost the team? Or have the players just generally checked out? Missing their golf games? No matter what the reason (all or none), September has not only been a pretty damning indictment on Cora, but some of the veteran players on the team. Devers, Turner, Story and especially Verdugo have largely been no shows. I’ve been told these nutless at-bats this month are Bloom’s fault and it’s also because they are tired (despite having only 2 guys playing 140 games this year and only 4 guys having 500 AB). They’re the only ones playing such a rigorous schedule!
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Post by pasadenasox on Sept 28, 2023 20:45:45 GMT -5
After they fired Bloom I’ve been fine with their effective tanking. I wanted to finish in front of the Yankees reflexively on principle, but pure utilitarianism has won the day.
Let’s go draft picks!
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Sept 28, 2023 20:48:10 GMT -5
After they fired Bloom I’ve been fine with their effective tanking. I wanted to finish in front of the Yankees reflexively on principle, but pure utilitarianism has won the day. Let’s go draft picks! Me too, I just want people to be honest about the effort they’re seeing
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keninten
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Post by keninten on Sept 28, 2023 20:48:10 GMT -5
Cora on the after game interview said he thought the team has been playing pretty good - just not winning. No words for that. He`s so happy, his jobs safe.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Sept 28, 2023 20:48:29 GMT -5
Delusion, that’s the word for it Shutout in 3 of 5. In a 4th game they scored 2 runs in a loss. Totally normal, nothing to see here. They definitely are trying super hard out there, they aren’t twiddling their thumbs waiting for the clock to run out at all. 162 games of this effort next year and Cora has himself a real winner! They've been swept in 8 series this season. It's not like they just started being a bad team. COL, PIT, STL at home early on. I guess you can argue that Cora was given a good team and failed with it but Corey Kluber on Opening Day, the Bear Claw game and Bobby D at SS (just off the top of my head) would suggest otherwise.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Sept 28, 2023 20:50:05 GMT -5
Delusion, that’s the word for it Shutout in 3 of 5. In a 4th game they scored 2 runs in a loss. Totally normal, nothing to see here. They definitely are trying super hard out there, they aren’t twiddling their thumbs waiting for the clock to run out at all. 162 games of this effort next year and Cora has himself a real winner! They've been swept in 8 series this season. It's not like they just started being a bad team. COL, PIT, STL at home early on. I guess you can argue that Cora was given a good team and failed with it but Corey Kluber on Opening Day, the Bear Claw game and Bobby D at SS (just off the top of my head) would suggest otherwise. Okay so you think they’re a .260 team because they got swept a few times earlier in the year? Is that where we’re at now? This is a reflection of what they are as players? No they quit. They’re twiddling their thumbs. It is what it is! Zero effort from the bats. I’m also not willing to give him a pass on the bearclaw game, Winckowski had thrown 20 pitches in 4 days iirc and Cora had no problem overusing him the entire season outside of that one game. I think they tried to get greedy and when it backfired they said screw it, no point in wasting the other arms now. And then the team died a brutal death and went 7-20 since, with HITTING being the main issue. You could see the deadness in the players urgency and their body language since. I’ve been saying it since.
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Sept 28, 2023 20:54:49 GMT -5
So - has the team quit on Cora? Has Cora lost the team? Or have the players just generally checked out? Missing their golf games? No matter what the reason (all or none), September has not only been a pretty damning indictment on Cora, but some of the veteran players on the team. Devers, Turner, Story and especially Verdugo have largely been no shows. Mostly agree, but Turner has been playing on one foot since August so I will give him a pass because at least he wants to be out there, he could have essily shut it down several weeks ago. As for Cora I think he is overrated. For a guy who hangs his hat on fundamentals his teams have been horrid on defense, running the bases, and situational hitting.
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Post by ephus on Sept 28, 2023 20:55:03 GMT -5
Flemming: "The guys in the 3rd base dugout have to be hoping they're having the same celebration this time next year." That seems pretty much unfathomable at this point... Something for Wilyer, Ceddanne, Wong and Bello to imprint in their souls.
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Post by soxfan06 on Sept 28, 2023 20:56:28 GMT -5
Excellent loss today boys!!!
3 more losses to go!
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Post by ephus on Sept 28, 2023 20:56:54 GMT -5
If you’re mad about this team losing, I can’t help you. This all about getting the best possible draft position. Full. Stop.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,003
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Post by cdj on Sept 28, 2023 20:56:54 GMT -5
So - has the team quit on Cora? Has Cora lost the team? Or have the players just generally checked out? Missing their golf games? No matter what the reason (all or none), September has not only been a pretty damning indictment on Cora, but some of the veteran players on the team. Devers, Turner, Story and especially Verdugo have largely been no shows. Mostly agree, but Turner has been playing on one foot since August so I will give him a pass because at least he wants to be out there, he could have essily shut it down several weeks ago. As for Cora I think he is overrated. For a guy who hangs his hat on fundamentals his teams have been horrid on defense, running the bases, and situational hitting. Ppl talk about making him head of baseball ops. Can they seriously look us in the eyes and tell us these last two baseball teams have been well-coached? What has he done to deserve this consideration in recent years? The 2021 team Bloom helped construct? That certainly wasn’t enough to save him! Shouldn’t be enough to excuse these last two teams devoid of fundamentals and focus. Certainly shouldn’t be enough to give him an even larger role!
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Post by incandenza on Sept 28, 2023 21:02:57 GMT -5
These are Orioles are the least 100-winnish 100-win team I have ever seen.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Sept 28, 2023 21:03:52 GMT -5
I feel awful for those who bet the over at 76 wins. It honestly feels like they're not going to make it and it's only because this entire team has quit.
I'm really sick of Cora getting an infinite pass and continues to be lauded as this great manager and baseball mind.
He got caught cheating with the Astros. He got caught cheating in Boston (or, he was magically ignorant of it, whatever) He cried about Vazquez which he's now apparently loving the 2 guys they got back for him. It feels like both last year and this year the team just quit after the deadline. Cora just let's these moods fester and I feel like he even dog piled on the resentment of the FO direction rather getting his troops back into order. He absolutely threw an important game this year against Houston that was the beginning of the end of this season.
I wanted to sell. I didn't believe in this team. I think Bloom did a very bad job during the deadline of both years. That doesn't give the team a free pass to give up. How about you go out there and prove people wrong? If this team fought to the end and came up short, I'd fully blame Bloom. This is not a .260 club and that falls squarely on Cora.
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Post by dirtdog on Sept 28, 2023 21:09:11 GMT -5
Cora on the after game interview said he thought the team has been playing pretty good - just not winning. No words for that. Wonder what his definition of pretty bad is?
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Post by asm19 on Sept 28, 2023 21:25:47 GMT -5
4-17 is a disgusting month, but they literally have half the 2023 WooSox lineup out there (Dalbec, Valdez, Rafaela, Abreu). There were calls after the Barraclough game to wave the white flag and play the kids. They’re doing literally that, which is why Rafaela played CF tonight over Duvall, Valdez played 2B over Pablo Reyes, and Zack Kelly came into the 8th inning of a 1 run game instead of like Garrett Whitlock.
Their prime focus right isn’t to win games, they’re auditioning guys for next year. I don’t get it - isn’t this what people asked for?
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Sept 28, 2023 21:26:48 GMT -5
I feel awful for those who bet the over at 76 wins. It honestly feels like they're not going to make it and it's only because this entire team has quit. I'm really sick of Cora getting an infinite pass and continues to be lauded as this great manager and baseball mind. He got caught cheating with the Astros. He got caught cheating in Boston (or, he was magically ignorant of it, whatever) He cried about Vazquez which he's now apparently loving the 2 guys they got back for him. It feels like both last year and this year the team just quit after the deadline. Cora just let's these moods fester and I feel like he even dog piled on the resentment of the FO direction rather getting his troops back into order. He absolutely threw an important game this year against Houston that was the beginning of the end of this season. I wanted to sell. I didn't believe in this team. I think Bloom did a very bad job during the deadline of both years. That doesn't give the team a free pass to give up. How about you go out there and prove people wrong? If this team fought to the end and came up short, I'd fully blame Bloom. This is not a .260 club and that falls squarely on Cora. Cora stinks as a manager. I would not have brought him back after the suspension. He makes bad decisions constantly. The Red Sox succeeded in 2018 despite Cora. The only thing he did successfully this year is get Bloom fired. Management is stupid if they bring him back. That said, IMO, when a new PBO/GM (whatever they decide the title will be) is hired, the FO will say Cora is out for ‘personal reasons’. They are allowed to change their minds.
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Post by yuchangclan on Sept 28, 2023 21:32:55 GMT -5
So - has the team quit on Cora? Has Cora lost the team? Or have the players just generally checked out? Missing their golf games? No matter what the reason (all or none), September has not only been a pretty damning indictment on Cora, but some of the veteran players on the team. Devers, Turner, Story and especially Verdugo have largely been no shows. I’d replace Devers with Yoshida on that list, but nobody has really shown up lately. They just seem to be in a hurry to get home for the offseason.
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Post by soxfan06 on Sept 28, 2023 21:33:06 GMT -5
It is definitely revisionist history to say the Red Sox succeeded in spite of Cora in 2018. That is just blatantly false.
But its not 2018 anymore and Cora stinks.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Sept 28, 2023 21:37:32 GMT -5
I feel awful for those who bet the over at 76 wins. It honestly feels like they're not going to make it and it's only because this entire team has quit. I'm really sick of Cora getting an infinite pass and continues to be lauded as this great manager and baseball mind. He got caught cheating with the Astros. He got caught cheating in Boston (or, he was magically ignorant of it, whatever) He cried about Vazquez which he's now apparently loving the 2 guys they got back for him. It feels like both last year and this year the team just quit after the deadline. Cora just let's these moods fester and I feel like he even dog piled on the resentment of the FO direction rather getting his troops back into order. He absolutely threw an important game this year against Houston that was the beginning of the end of this season. I wanted to sell. I didn't believe in this team. I think Bloom did a very bad job during the deadline of both years. That doesn't give the team a free pass to give up. How about you go out there and prove people wrong? If this team fought to the end and came up short, I'd fully blame Bloom. This is not a .260 club and that falls squarely on Cora. Cora stinks as a manager. I would not have brought him back after the suspension. He makes bad decisions constantly. The Red Sox succeeded in 2018 despite Cora. The only thing he did successfully this year is get Bloom fired. Management is stupid if they bring him back. That said, IMO, when a new PBO/GM (whatever they decide the title will be) is hired, the FO will say Cora is out for ‘personal reasons’. They are allowed to change their minds. Oh, they're not just bringing him back. It's a perquisite that the GM have a positive relationship with Cora since he's going to be forced upon whomever takes the job. The most important role of an organization and they're going to make sure they get the best GM for the manager, not the best GM available. What a colossal disaster waiting to happen, but because they're going to spend this off-season (which I always felt like was the plan regardless of Bloom), they'll win games and make the Wild Card and everyone will think it's because of this new dynamic when in reality they just spent a bunch of money and likely traded good/great prospects to get there. Which I think anyone could have done (being a little harsh, would need to see the actual trades to fairly critique it).
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