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Post by trajanacc on May 24, 2024 7:40:31 GMT -5
Well, he was just voted 1st team All NBA, which makes him Top 5. Although for me, while a no doubt all-star player, I don't consider that a superstar. Glad we have him. If he doesn't get us over the hump, and get over his petulance, we can always trade him for a huge haul & build around JB & the crew. Win win. Maybe the language used in frustration wasn't appropriate but never meant he sucked. He's been very efficient. I'm just expecting. "Carry the entire team on his back. I'm a top 5 player in the NBA so watch me go off against these injured teams". That kind of stuff. Without Brown being Superman this round the Celtics might be 0-2. That's not saying Tatum sucks. It's saying my opinion is so high that I'm disappointed he's not hitting that level. I also feel he's going to need to hit that gear in the Finals for them to bring home a ring. Part of the reason he doesn’t often carry the team on his back is because there are typically 3-4 other stars on the court at the same time. If Tatum is struggling or has a tough matchup, you can just give the ball to a different all-star player. He’s not a one-man show that has to gun 20+ fga for his team to be effective.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on May 24, 2024 7:45:17 GMT -5
Nobody has ever won a title single handedly. There were nights in the playoffs that Klay led the Warriors in scoring, it didn’t make Durant or Curry any less of superstars
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Post by soxfansince67 on May 24, 2024 7:56:21 GMT -5
This back and forth would be helped if there were separate threads for game reactions (a game thread) and a general thread for the Celts as an organization and it's players. To be picking on posters for immediate emotional game reactions could then be reduced. We're getting to near silly season with the Tatum stuff.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 24, 2024 8:25:09 GMT -5
Maybe the language used in frustration wasn't appropriate but never meant he sucked. He's been very efficient. I'm just expecting. "Carry the entire team on his back. I'm a top 5 player in the NBA so watch me go off against these injured teams". That kind of stuff. Without Brown being Superman this round the Celtics might be 0-2. That's not saying Tatum sucks. It's saying my opinion is so high that I'm disappointed he's not hitting that level. I also feel he's going to need to hit that gear in the Finals for them to bring home a ring. Part of the reason he doesn’t often carry the team on his back is because there are typically 3-4 other stars on the court at the same time. If Tatum is struggling or has a tough matchup, you can just give the ball to a different all-star player. He’s not a one-man show that has to gun 20+ fga for his team to be effective. Tatum and Brown don’t get enough credit for sticking together, working together and having a lot of humility. A lot of young guys would have been shooting for their own interests in getting stats and being the clear alpha. Both from a young age figured out they going at it together was the path. It’s worked out for them and made them much better players.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on May 24, 2024 8:50:19 GMT -5
Part of the reason he doesn’t often carry the team on his back is because there are typically 3-4 other stars on the court at the same time. If Tatum is struggling or has a tough matchup, you can just give the ball to a different all-star player. He’s not a one-man show that has to gun 20+ fga for his team to be effective. Tatum and Brown don’t get enough credit for sticking together, working together and having a lot of humility. A lot of young guys would have been shooting for their own interests in getting stats and being the clear alpha. Both from a young age figured out they going at it together was the path. It’s worked out for them and made them much better players. I was always of the view you stick with them together until you absolutely can't, but I honestly never felt 100% confident they would work together as a Champion pair until this season. Until JB got his supermax and then proved he was fully worth it, it seemed like there was always a chance he'd want something different. They seem comfortable being a 1A/1B, and now they are plenty comfortable letting Jrue/White have their cake. Also I LOVE Jrue on this team. He's given up the most (especially as White emerged to an All-Star level) but he's a steadying influence who can go nuts when needed.
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Post by GyIantosca on May 24, 2024 11:02:23 GMT -5
What a backvourt we have. You throw in Pritchard off the bench.
I tell you JB is a man on a mission. Something clicked from that game 7 loss from last year. I love JT too. This team what can you say .
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Post by ematz1423 on May 24, 2024 11:41:22 GMT -5
Part of the reason he doesn’t often carry the team on his back is because there are typically 3-4 other stars on the court at the same time. If Tatum is struggling or has a tough matchup, you can just give the ball to a different all-star player. He’s not a one-man show that has to gun 20+ fga for his team to be effective. Tatum and Brown don’t get enough credit for sticking together, working together and having a lot of humility. A lot of young guys would have been shooting for their own interests in getting stats and being the clear alpha. Both from a young age figured out they going at it together was the path. It’s worked out for them and made them much better players. This is a great point. How many times have we seen two stars hit one maybe two speed bumps and then one of them whines and demands a trade. Some guys have done it multiple times. It's good to see two young stars with what seems mutual respect and appreciation for each other stick together and continue to grow instead of bail out.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on May 24, 2024 11:45:32 GMT -5
Btw my view is that Tatum is a superstar. He has been literally the most valuable player of the post season and is the best player on the best team. He also adds a lot of value defensively and as a distributor and rebounder. The complete package is a player that, at a minimum is the tenth best player in the NBA and I have him somewhere around number six.
I also think its a reasonable question whether he is one, because he isn’t clutch and has too many nights where he shoots like 1-8 from three. If he fixed that one issue it’d be a lot clearer.
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Post by philarhody on May 24, 2024 15:14:14 GMT -5
The Celtic’s 5th best player is better than every other remaining team’s second best player, save for maybe Kyrie Irving who typically gives it back on defense.
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Post by GyIantosca on May 24, 2024 16:01:03 GMT -5
those two wings work so good together. People don't realize Tatum does so much more he is very talented. I love Browns aggressiveness.
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Post by Don Caballero on May 24, 2024 20:58:39 GMT -5
The Celtic’s 5th best player is better than every other remaining team’s second best player, save for maybe Kyrie Irving who typically gives it back on defense. That’s not true at all. Well, it is true for the Mavs and the Pacers, but it’s not true for the Wolves. KAT is a very good player and McDaniels and Gobert are insane defensive players to a much higher degree than White and Jrue. The Celtics are the best team and they have been the best team in the NBA the whole season, but let’s not get nuts here.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on May 24, 2024 21:21:55 GMT -5
Sleeping on Siakam too
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Post by philarhody on May 24, 2024 21:31:47 GMT -5
You would take Siakim over White or Holiday?
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Post by philarhody on May 24, 2024 21:37:39 GMT -5
The Celtic’s 5th best player is better than every other remaining team’s second best player, save for maybe Kyrie Irving who typically gives it back on defense. That’s not true at all. Well, it is true for the Mavs and the Pacers, but it’s not true for the Wolves. KAT is a very good player and McDaniels and Gobert are insane defensive players to a much higher degree than White and Jrue. The Celtics are the best team and they have been the best team in the NBA the whole season, but let’s not get nuts here. Not true at all, or you disagree?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 24, 2024 21:48:04 GMT -5
Fit matters, what team we are talking about matters. Celtics you don't take Siakam over White. Pacers, yeah you absolutely take Siakam over White. White is awesome in his current role, we wouldn't be so giddy about him if he was our 2nd best player.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on May 24, 2024 21:50:47 GMT -5
You would take Siakim over White or Holiday? If I was building a team and the player was gonna be my #1 option, easily. Probably not even close tbh On the Celtics no because we have Tatum, who Siakam is a poor man’s version of
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Post by philarhody on May 24, 2024 21:52:11 GMT -5
Fit matters, what team we are talking about matters. Celtics you don't take Siakam over White. Pacers, yeah you absolutely take Siakam over White. White is awesome in his current role, we wouldn't be so giddy about him if he was our 2nd best player. Right. But he’s not. He’s our 4th or 5th best player.
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Post by philarhody on May 24, 2024 21:54:52 GMT -5
You would take Siakim over White or Holiday? If I was building a team and the player was gonna be my #1 option, easily. Probably not even close tbh On the Celtics no because we have Tatum I just don’t know what to say. The man was traded for Bruce Brown and a couple of mid firsts in the worst draft in 20 years. If you look beyond the advance stats and things like “can he stretch the floor at all” and you like him more than Derrick White and Jrue Holiday, okay. But you would easily take him over those guys?
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cdj
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Post by cdj on May 24, 2024 21:57:30 GMT -5
If I was building a team and the player was gonna be my #1 option, easily. Probably not even close tbh On the Celtics no because we have Tatum I just don’t know what to say. The man was traded for Bruce Brown and a couple of mid firsts in the worst draft in 20 years. If you look beyond the advance stats and things like “can he stretch the floor at all” and you like him more than Derrick White and Jrue Holiday, okay. But you would easily take him over those guys? What did Holiday and White get traded for again? Oh yeah role players and some late 1sts lol- Siakam is also a pending free agent Siakam gets 22/8/5 over the last handful of years. He’s hit 38% of his 3’s with the Pacers. He was an integral part of a championship winner- their #2 guy behind Kawhi. I genuinely don’t think you understand how good he is, which is strange because he’s been giving us the business.
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Post by soxfansince67 on May 24, 2024 22:09:08 GMT -5
Dallas up 2 games to none going back to Dallas. Great close game.
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Post by Don Caballero on May 24, 2024 22:09:26 GMT -5
Luka Doncic is a goddamn psychopath. Hits the game winner and screams at everyone’s face. On the road too. Dude is pure malice. Edwards is not the next MJ after all. It’s a goofy white dude from Europe.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 24, 2024 22:10:51 GMT -5
Fit matters, what team we are talking about matters. Celtics you don't take Siakam over White. Pacers, yeah you absolutely take Siakam over White. White is awesome in his current role, we wouldn't be so giddy about him if he was our 2nd best player. Right. But he’s not. He’s our 4th or 5th best player. Yeah I know, do you? White, Holiday, Horford and the Unicorn play great in their roles. Well Holiday is now playing great, but no way do I think Holiday and/or White is better than all the teams #2 left. Why? They wouldn't look the same as the #2 on any of teams left. You are just looking at what they are doing in lower roles, not adjusting to if they actually moved to #2.
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Post by philarhody on May 24, 2024 22:20:45 GMT -5
I just don’t know what to say. The man was traded for Bruce Brown and a couple of mid firsts in the worst draft in 20 years. If you look beyond the advance stats and things like “can he stretch the floor at all” and you like him more than Derrick White and Jrue Holiday, okay. But you would easily take him over those guys? What did Holiday and White get traded for again? Oh yeah role players and some late 1sts lol- Siakam is also a pending free agent Siakam gets 22/8/5 over the last handful of years. He’s hit 38% of his 3’s with the Pacers. He was an integral part of a championship winner- their #2 guy behind Kawhi. I genuinely don’t think you understand how good he is, which is strange because he’s been giving us the business. Siakim has a history of coming up very short against the Celtics. He’s a good not great player. Holiday and White were sold low on. You said it’s not even close, and I think that’s dumb. You can say I’m a big dumby honk homer for saying White and Holiday are each better players than Pascal Siakim. If you want to talk Gobert as a better second player than Holiday or White, I could see the argument a bit better. Siakim is ok. He’s good not great on both ends. White and Holiday are great defenders and good offensive players.
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Post by philarhody on May 24, 2024 22:25:02 GMT -5
Right. But he’s not. He’s our 4th or 5th best player. Yeah I know, do you? White, Holiday, Horford and the Unicorn play great in their roles. Well Holiday is now playing great, but no way do I think Holiday and/or White is better than all the teams #2 left. Why? They wouldn't look the same as the #2 on any of teams left. You are just looking at what they are doing in lower roles, not adjusting to if they actually moved to #2. Brosephus, Holiday won a chip as the second guy. You know this. I’m not talking about Horford or Luke Kornet. I’m talking about two guys who would be the second best player on these conference finalist teams, but are the Celtics 4th and 5th best players. That’s nuckin’ futs.
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Post by Don Caballero on May 24, 2024 22:31:43 GMT -5
I think this discussion is pointless. If The Porzingod is back and healthy the Celtics are just insane and damn near impossible to guard. No weak link in that lineup.
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