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Post by maxwellsdemon on Oct 31, 2023 8:15:20 GMT -5
So, far this World Series has featured some excellent fielding, a couple of exciting rookies, an inspiring comeback, throwback small ball (the bunt lives), stolen bases, patches of dominant pitching and timely hitting with dramatic homeruns. Yeah, but other than that a real disappointment because... the two teams...
I'm enjoying it - hope it goes 7 with an extra inning (without ghost runners) finale.
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Post by julyanmorley on Oct 31, 2023 15:33:12 GMT -5
Game 2 set the record for least watch World Series game ever, and Game 3 broke the record. The previous non-COVID record low was 10.2 million and now the record is 8.1 million.
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Post by bluechip on Oct 31, 2023 17:00:32 GMT -5
Game 2 set the record for least watch World Series game ever, and Game 3 broke the record. The previous non-COVID record low was 10.2 million and now the record is 8.1 million. These were respectively the worst rated games 1, 2, and 3 in World Series history (even lower the games 1, 2, and 3 in 2020). This series is on track to be the least watch World Series ever. The last four World Series (2020 to 2023) are the least watched four World Series in history. The next MLB contract for national television has to be less, right?
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Post by incandenza on Oct 31, 2023 19:24:32 GMT -5
I heard someone point out that the color saturation inside of the K zone on the Fox broadcast looks better than it does in the rest of the shot and how I can't unsee it.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 31, 2023 19:44:29 GMT -5
Nothing like starting a freaking opener during a pivotal game of a World Series. Not a slap at Joe Mantiply who pitched well but the fact that you need about seven different relievers to be reasonably effective. Pretty pathetic that a team in a World Series felt the need to use an opener, that they couldn't even find a reasonably capable 4th starter to just make a start - but then again Arizona is an 84 win team. Just makes me shake my head. I hope eventually baseball figures out a why for starting pitchers to become more important because part of the charm of baseball are those marquis starting pitcher matchups, which are becoming a thing of the past with all these openers and five and dive starts. To bad.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,481
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Post by cdj on Oct 31, 2023 19:58:00 GMT -5
So, far this World Series has featured some excellent fielding, a couple of exciting rookies, an inspiring comeback, throwback small ball (the bunt lives), stolen bases, patches of dominant pitching and timely hitting with dramatic homeruns. Yeah, but other than that a real disappointment because... the two teams... I'm enjoying it - hope it goes 7 with an extra inning (without ghost runners) finale. Oh it’s been great, I have no complaints. Once we got to the championship series this is the matchup I wanted. They just aren’t big markets and that’s why the ratings are down, that’s all
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Post by incandenza on Oct 31, 2023 20:12:46 GMT -5
Game 2 set the record for least watch World Series game ever, and Game 3 broke the record. The previous non-COVID record low was 10.2 million and now the record is 8.1 million. Well if a Heaney vs. bullpen matchup that's over by the third inning doesn't right the ship, nothing will.
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Post by philarhody on Oct 31, 2023 20:38:56 GMT -5
The Arizona Diamondbacks started a relief pitcher with a .1 WAR in a must win World Series game tonight.
Baseball is in trouble folks.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Oct 31, 2023 21:31:50 GMT -5
The Arizona Diamondbacks started a relief pitcher with a .1 WAR in a must win World Series game tonight. Baseball is in trouble folks. I rather doubt that baseball will go belly up in my lifetime. Don’t really care what other people watch.
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Post by incandenza on Oct 31, 2023 22:20:53 GMT -5
With a 99.9% win probability, Bochy is bringing Leclerc in to get the last out. That can't possibly improve their odds of winning this game more than it hurts their odds of winning tomorrow.
I suspect it hurts their odds of winning this game, for that matter, by some marginal amount, since Leclerc might just not have it, whereas Smith seemed fine.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 31, 2023 23:05:35 GMT -5
With a 99.9% win probability, Bochy is bringing Leclerc in to get the last out. That can't possibly improve their odds of winning this game more than it hurts their odds of winning tomorrow. I suspect it hurts their odds of winning this game, for that matter, by some marginal amount, since Leclerc might just not have it, whereas Smith seemed fine. Agreed. Unnecessary overmanaging by Bochy.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 31, 2023 23:18:02 GMT -5
If Texas is 4th in payroll spending, they can't be that small of a market, right? I think neither team is hate able and neither team has a compelling reason to watch. Neither team were truly great or have any real star players. The Diamondbacks shouldn't be in this position. A very mediocre team is in the World Series going against a team that was alright. Phillies/Rangers would have been a good series. Phillies/Astros would have been even better.
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Post by bluechip on Nov 1, 2023 1:59:25 GMT -5
Nothing like starting a freaking opener during a pivotal game of a World Series. Not a slap at Joe Mantiply who pitched well but the fact that you need about seven different relievers to be reasonably effective. Pretty pathetic that a team in a World Series felt the need to use an opener, that they couldn't even find a reasonably capable 4th starter to just make a start - but then again Arizona is an 84 win team. Just makes me shake my head. I hope eventually baseball figures out a why for starting pitchers to become more important because part of the charm of baseball are those marquis starting pitcher matchups, which are becoming a thing of the past with all these openers and five and dive starts. To bad. A bullpen game in the World Series is crazy. I appreciate that bringing back a starter on short rest is not ideal, but that was how this would have been dealt with years ago and many pitchers became legends by pitching on short rest in the Series.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Nov 1, 2023 2:46:22 GMT -5
The Tampa model is to blame for all these shenanigans, and by extension, an overreliance on data / analytics.
Change happens and teams innovate to compete, but some of this stuff if overthinking it, to put it pretty mildly.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 1, 2023 6:01:42 GMT -5
Nothing like starting a freaking opener during a pivotal game of a World Series. Not a slap at Joe Mantiply who pitched well but the fact that you need about seven different relievers to be reasonably effective. Pretty pathetic that a team in a World Series felt the need to use an opener, that they couldn't even find a reasonably capable 4th starter to just make a start - but then again Arizona is an 84 win team. Just makes me shake my head. I hope eventually baseball figures out a why for starting pitchers to become more important because part of the charm of baseball are those marquis starting pitcher matchups, which are becoming a thing of the past with all these openers and five and dive starts. To bad. A bullpen game in the World Series is crazy. I appreciate that bringing back a starter on short rest is not ideal, but that was how this would have been dealt with years ago and many pitchers became legends by pitching on short rest in the Series. I realized I should have said bullpen game rather than opener as the latter implies a reliever starting and a starter/long reliever following. This was worse. A bunch of nondescript relievers in succession. Good way to burn out the pen, although Bochy was anxious to do likewise with his closer. Your comment made me think of Howard Ehmke, a surprise starter and star of Game 1 of the 1929 World Series. Different scenario, but it made me think good thing Connie Mack wasnt into bullpen games or Ehmke wouldnt have even seen the 2nd or 3rd inning. It just seems really ridiculous that a World Series team, even an 84 win team, must resort to that kind of silliness in the World Series where every game is so crucial.
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Post by incandenza on Nov 1, 2023 7:11:08 GMT -5
I dislike the aesthetics of a bullpen game too, but I believe the Rattlesnakes' only option for a traditional starter would have been Ryne Nelson whose ERA and multiverse stats were all above 5. Strategically I think the bullpen game was the right way to go. (Nelson was third on the team in SP IP with 138. Pfaadt was fourth at just 90. #5 hasn't pitched since July and #6 has been released. No one else pitched so much as 20 innings as a starter.)
But feel free to blame MLB for constructing a playoff format that allows a mediocre team to ride two starters all the way to the World Series.
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Post by maxwellsdemon on Nov 1, 2023 7:23:37 GMT -5
I dislike the aesthetics of a bullpen game too, but I believe the Rattlesnakes' only option for a traditional starter would have been Ryne Nelson whose ERA and multiverse stats were all above 5. Strategically I think the bullpen game was the right way to go. (Nelson was third on the team in SP IP with 138. Pfaadt was fourth at just 90. #5 hasn't pitched since July and #6 has been released. No one else pitched so much as 20 innings as a starter.) But feel free to blame MLB for constructing a playoff format that allows a mediocre team to ride two starters all the way to the World Series. "Warren Spahn and Johnny Sain and then dear lord two days of rain."
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Post by philarhody on Nov 1, 2023 7:40:11 GMT -5
The Arizona Diamondbacks started a relief pitcher with a .1 WAR in a must win World Series game tonight. Baseball is in trouble folks. I rather doubt that baseball will go belly up in my lifetime. Don’t really care what other people watch. Do you like watching a World Series game started by Joe Mantiply?
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Post by incandenza on Nov 1, 2023 7:42:27 GMT -5
I dislike the aesthetics of a bullpen game too, but I believe the Rattlesnakes' only option for a traditional starter would have been Ryne Nelson whose ERA and multiverse stats were all above 5. Strategically I think the bullpen game was the right way to go. (Nelson was third on the team in SP IP with 138. Pfaadt was fourth at just 90. #5 hasn't pitched since July and #6 has been released. No one else pitched so much as 20 innings as a starter.) But feel free to blame MLB for constructing a playoff format that allows a mediocre team to ride two starters all the way to the World Series. "Warren Spahn and Johnny Sain and then dear lord two days of rain." A weird true fact is that Spahn had the worst ERA of anyone in that Braves rotation. And the Braves overall had the best starters' ERA in the majors that season. Not that I would ever say we should let reality get in the way of a good rhyme scheme.
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 1, 2023 7:52:32 GMT -5
I rather doubt that baseball will go belly up in my lifetime. Don’t really care what other people watch. Do you like watching a World Series game started by Joe Mantiply? Bullpen games aren't really my favorite either, but I'm also not going all Fall of the Roman Empire because Joe Mantiply is taking the place where someone like Josh Fogg was in 2007.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Nov 1, 2023 9:26:53 GMT -5
I dislike the aesthetics of a bullpen game too, but I believe the Rattlesnakes' only option for a traditional starter would have been Ryne Nelson whose ERA and multiverse stats were all above 5. Strategically I think the bullpen game was the right way to go. (Nelson was third on the team in SP IP with 138. Pfaadt was fourth at just 90. #5 hasn't pitched since July and #6 has been released. No one else pitched so much as 20 innings as a starter.) But feel free to blame MLB for constructing a playoff format that allows a mediocre team to ride two starters all the way to the World Series. I think the larger point is there is no way to determine whether the bold would be a better option, absent actually making that choice. The fact that they went the way they did was, strictly speaking, a guess (option). That option is loaded with bias (derivative analysis). Whereas, IMO, that starter option has more credibility because, well, that is what a player has been trained to do. His numbers to this point aren't really indicative of what could happen in a 5 inning or so stint.
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Post by rhswanzey on Nov 1, 2023 9:45:49 GMT -5
I dislike the aesthetics of a bullpen game too, but I believe the Rattlesnakes' only option for a traditional starter would have been Ryne Nelson whose ERA and multiverse stats were all above 5. Strategically I think the bullpen game was the right way to go. (Nelson was third on the team in SP IP with 138. Pfaadt was fourth at just 90. #5 hasn't pitched since July and #6 has been released. No one else pitched so much as 20 innings as a starter.) But feel free to blame MLB for constructing a playoff format that allows a mediocre team to ride two starters all the way to the World Series. Derek Lowe was really rough during the regular season in 2004. I found myself realizing he probably wouldn’t make either of his enormous ALCS starts if that series were played today. He might not have been a starting pitcher in general. I’d like the opener to stop but I’m hoping there are not rule/usage changes to force the issue. I’m just not convinced it’s preferable to a back end starting pitcher. We’re very good at isolating individual player rate performance, and my opinion is we are not very good at capturing how one isolated player affects the other isolated players.
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Post by philarhody on Nov 1, 2023 14:39:40 GMT -5
Do you like watching a World Series game started by Joe Mantiply? Bullpen games aren't really my favorite either, but I'm also not going all Fall of the Roman Empire because Joe Mantiply is taking the place where someone like Josh Fogg was in 2007. I hate to break it to you buddy, but the Roman Empire fell when steroids became a thing. This is more like the fall of Yugoslavia. Sad, kind of frustrating, but no one really knows the players and there are more interesting things to follow.
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 1, 2023 15:05:23 GMT -5
Despite the overuse of "Balkanization" in the political science literature, the fall of Yugoslavia was a clear positive for the region. I would argue that the atrocities committed during the post Yugoslavia transition were not an example of the folly of independence movements but rather an indictment of NATO and the UN to recognize and mitigate the risks of Nationalist strongmen like Milosevic and Tudjman.
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Post by incandenza on Nov 1, 2023 15:23:53 GMT -5
Despite the overuse of "Balkanization" in the political science literature, the fall of Yugoslavia was a clear positive for the region. I would argue that the atrocities committed during the post Yugoslavia transition were not an example of the folly of independence movements but rather an indictment of NATO and the UN to recognize and mitigate the risks of Nationalist strongmen like Milosevic and Tudjman. In this metaphor, Joe Mantiply is Slobodan Milosevic? Or is that Bochy? And Manfred is... Boutros Boutros-Ghali? Or Bill Clinton? Theo Epstein is Madeleine Albright? There are really layers to this thing...
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