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Chris Sale traded to Atlanta for Vaughn Grissom
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Post by incandenza on May 21, 2024 12:26:24 GMT -5
I 100 percent agree for the sake of this season if he's not going to be getting the bulk of the starts at 2nd in Boston he should be down in AAA, he's still just 23 so it's not like he couldn't use some more time in AAA. He should be getting every day reps to get back in rhythm since he clearly seems to be out of synch right now. It's not doing him any favors playing a couple times a week. I think he only has one option left. If that's the case I can see the rationale for keeping him up. Zero option Grissom is likely to be a poor roster fit next year. Fangraphs says he has 2 options.
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Post by ematz1423 on May 21, 2024 12:42:41 GMT -5
I think he only has one option left. If that's the case I can see the rationale for keeping him up. Zero option Grissom is likely to be a poor roster fit next year. Fangraphs says he has 2 options. I believe two is correct, 2022 he was called up and played the last half or so of the year in ATL. 2023 he started in Atlanta then was sent down so there is one option and so far in 2024 he has not had an option used.
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Post by scottysmalls on May 21, 2024 13:00:24 GMT -5
I wonder what the odds would be on Grissom being the 2025 2B. There’s Hamilton and Valdez as MLB ready guys at similar points in their career, there’s Yorke, Paulino and Meidroth as near MLB ready 2B prospects, there’s Mayer possibly forcing his way up which could slide Story over, a crowded outfield picture which makes Rafaela in the infield a consideration, and external options.
Grissom probably still has the lead, but I’m not sure it’s above 30% chance that he is the guy next year (and beyond).
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Post by greatscottcooper on May 21, 2024 13:07:52 GMT -5
Worse cans have been opened, I guess Grissom does have two options left. I really thought he had 1.
I get the argument for keeping him up in the bigs, but I think a strong argument can be made for sending him down too. If he can't handle being sent down for a brief period of time then he doesn't really have the mentality needed to be a big leaguer anyways.
He got no spring training, he got sick, and he's been unlucky. I still have a lot of hope this kid can contribute, and can contribute this year at some point.
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Post by badballhitter on May 21, 2024 13:14:17 GMT -5
Fangraphs says he has 2 options. I believe two is correct, 2022 he was called up and played the last half or so of the year in ATL. 2023 he started in Atlanta then was sent down so there is one option and so far in 2024 he has not had an option used. Ok, if that's the case then AAA it is.
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Post by badballhitter on May 21, 2024 13:27:54 GMT -5
I wonder what the odds would be on Grissom being the 2025 2B. There’s Hamilton and Valdez as MLB ready guys at similar points in their career, there’s Yorke, Paulino and Meidroth as near MLB ready 2B prospects, there’s Mayer possibly forcing his way up which could slide Story over, a crowded outfield picture which makes Rafaela in the infield a consideration, and external options. Grissom probably still has the lead, but I’m not sure it’s above 30% chance that he is the guy next year (and beyond). It's going to be interesting. The middle infield belongs to Story and Myer as soon as each is ready. The rest of that list is playing for IL fill ins or maybe a bench role. Personally, I think they should trade 1-2 to fill other needs. Not sure if Grissom should be traded or not, kind of depends on how the rest of the year goes.
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Post by julyanmorley on May 21, 2024 13:51:00 GMT -5
ZiPS still has Grissom as a 740 OPS, 2 WAR player, and he's not quite into his peak years yet.
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Post by trotman on May 21, 2024 15:08:59 GMT -5
I think the weight Grissom lost right after his rehab/before joining the Sox is being underplayed. He looks gaunt and I think Cotillo said he dropped 10-15lbs from that illness. There is no way that man is currently 210lbs like his baseball reference says.
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Post by Smittyw on May 21, 2024 15:22:22 GMT -5
Definitely not panicking after 13 games coming off an injury and illness. Some time in Worcester to find his footing feels warranted, though.
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Post by scottysmalls on May 21, 2024 15:32:43 GMT -5
ZiPS still has Grissom as a 740 OPS, 2 WAR player, and he's not quite into his peak years yet. This is kinda my point though, extrapolating ZiPS RoS to 150 games you get 2.4 for Hamilton, 1.75 for Valdez, 2.25 for Grissom. All within the margin for error of each other, all similar defensive question marks. I’m not sure Grissom has a massive edge over these guys, though I do think he has more upside.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 21, 2024 15:32:55 GMT -5
I wonder what the odds would be on Grissom being the 2025 2B. There’s Hamilton and Valdez as MLB ready guys at similar points in their career, there’s Yorke, Paulino and Meidroth as near MLB ready 2B prospects, there’s Mayer possibly forcing his way up which could slide Story over, a crowded outfield picture which makes Rafaela in the infield a consideration, and external options. Grissom probably still has the lead, but I’m not sure it’s above 30% chance that he is the guy next year (and beyond). It's going to be interesting. The middle infield belongs to Story and Myer as soon as each is ready. The rest of that list is playing for IL fill ins or maybe a bench role. Personally, I think they should trade 1-2 to fill other needs. Not sure if Grissom should be traded or not, kind of depends on how the rest of the year goes. Story is constantly injured so I have a hard time penciling him in for anything, but I certainly wouldnt dump Grissom to accommodate an often injured player in his 30s. Maybe it works out that Story and Grissom coexist in the same infield with Mayer with one at 2b and the other at 3b, with Devers DHing and Yoshida somehow gets traded although I certainly cant see much demand for his services at this point.
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Post by bosoxnation on May 21, 2024 16:18:03 GMT -5
It's going to be interesting. The middle infield belongs to Story and Myer as soon as each is ready. The rest of that list is playing for IL fill ins or maybe a bench role. Personally, I think they should trade 1-2 to fill other needs. Not sure if Grissom should be traded or not, kind of depends on how the rest of the year goes. Story is constantly injured so I have a hard time penciling him in for anything, but I certainly wouldnt dump Grissom to accommodate an often injured player in his 30s. Maybe it works out that Story and Grissom coexist in the same infield with Mayer with one at 2b and the other at 3b, with Devers DHing and Yoshida somehow gets traded although I certainly cant see much demand for his services at this point. WOW. Writing off Yoshida is seriously depressing to read. Was he not good last year I'm confused. I was upset with casas last year after 1 month because he wasn't taking walks like he did at the end of 2022 and i am still reminded to this day. Yoshi can play LF. Manny did and we won correct? His one of our best hitters.
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Post by badballhitter on May 21, 2024 16:59:51 GMT -5
It's going to be interesting. The middle infield belongs to Story and Myer as soon as each is ready. The rest of that list is playing for IL fill ins or maybe a bench role. Personally, I think they should trade 1-2 to fill other needs. Not sure if Grissom should be traded or not, kind of depends on how the rest of the year goes. Story is constantly injured so I have a hard time penciling him in for anything, but I certainly wouldnt dump Grissom to accommodate an often injured player in his 30s. Maybe it works out that Story and Grissom coexist in the same infield with Mayer with one at 2b and the other at 3b, with Devers DHing and Yoshida somehow gets traded although I certainly cant see much demand for his services at this point. I'm not saying dump Grissom because of Story. I'm saying trade someone (maybe Grissom, but was explicit that I wasn't exactly sure who) because of Story, Meyer, Rafaela, Hamilton, Refsnyder, Gonzalez, Yorke, Meidroth, Valdez, Sogard, and Paulino. Trade from the glut of surplus MI for a position of need.
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Post by manfred on May 21, 2024 18:02:45 GMT -5
Story is constantly injured so I have a hard time penciling him in for anything, but I certainly wouldnt dump Grissom to accommodate an often injured player in his 30s. Maybe it works out that Story and Grissom coexist in the same infield with Mayer with one at 2b and the other at 3b, with Devers DHing and Yoshida somehow gets traded although I certainly cant see much demand for his services at this point. I'm not saying dump Grissom because of Story. I'm saying trade someone (maybe Grissom, but was explicit that I wasn't exactly sure who) because of Story, Meyer, Rafaela, Hamilton, Refsnyder, Gonzalez, Yorke, Meidroth, Valdez, Sogard, and Paulino. Trade from the glut of surplus MI for a position of need. That is a pretty strange list. You have an all star, a top prospect, an outfielder (Refsnyder) guys who are light years from Boston (Sogard, Paulino, maybe Meidroth)…. In short, I’m seeing depth, but I would not call it a glut. Put differently, who is *worth* trading? Story, Meyer, and Grissom are the three value guys (if healthy, obviously, so Story is out). Yorke might have a spot of value. L’il Raffy ain’t going…
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Post by wkdbigsoxfan on May 21, 2024 18:34:19 GMT -5
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Post by wvusox on May 21, 2024 18:52:29 GMT -5
I realize he won't be able to keep this pace, but as of today Chris Sale's projections should he stay healthy through 162 games:
26-4 Record 2.22 ERA 209 IP 151 H 29 BB 258 K
in 33 starts
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Post by badballhitter on May 21, 2024 18:54:51 GMT -5
I'm not saying dump Grissom because of Story. I'm saying trade someone (maybe Grissom, but was explicit that I wasn't exactly sure who) because of Story, Meyer, Rafaela, Hamilton, Refsnyder, Gonzalez, Yorke, Meidroth, Valdez, Sogard, and Paulino. Trade from the glut of surplus MI for a position of need. That is a pretty strange list. You have an all star, a top prospect, an outfielder (Refsnyder) guys who are light years from Boston (Sogard, Paulino, maybe Meidroth)…. In short, I’m seeing depth, but I would not call it a glut. Put differently, who is *worth* trading? Story, Meyer, and Grissom are the three value guys (if healthy, obviously, so Story is out). Yorke might have a spot of value. L’il Raffy ain’t going… Ha, Refsnyder is a typo. Otherwise, that's the list of MI guys currently in mlb/AAA/AA so no not light years away. Point is that's a lot of guys for two starting positions that Meyer and Story will likely be filling for most of the next 3 years, plus a reserve spot. Yorke (11th prospect), Meidroth (13), and Paulino (15) might might be the most likely trade options along with Grissom. Do you want to keep all of them?
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Post by keninten on May 21, 2024 18:57:29 GMT -5
I realize he won't be able to keep this pace, but as of today Chris Sale's projections should he stay healthy through 162 games: 26-4 Record 2.22 ERA 209 IP 151 H 29 BB 258 K in 33 starts Looks like Pedro numbers.
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Post by julyanmorley on May 21, 2024 19:33:54 GMT -5
I usually root against everyone that leaves the Sox, but I am 100% rooting for Chris Sale to shove for a couple more seasons so we can get another Red Sox into the Hall of Fame
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asm18
Veteran
Posts: 1,227
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Post by asm18 on May 21, 2024 20:02:55 GMT -5
I usually root against everyone that leaves the Sox, but I am 100% rooting for Chris Sale to shove for a couple more seasons so we can get another Red Sox into the Hall of Fame I hope he gets a Cy Young - he should have gotten one in 2017 but it was stolen from him by Corey Kluber
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 21, 2024 22:06:53 GMT -5
Story is constantly injured so I have a hard time penciling him in for anything, but I certainly wouldnt dump Grissom to accommodate an often injured player in his 30s. Maybe it works out that Story and Grissom coexist in the same infield with Mayer with one at 2b and the other at 3b, with Devers DHing and Yoshida somehow gets traded although I certainly cant see much demand for his services at this point. WOW. Writing off Yoshida is seriously depressing to read. Was he not good last year I'm confused. I was upset with casas last year after 1 month because he wasn't taking walks like he did at the end of 2022 and i am still reminded to this day. Yoshi can play LF. Manny did and we won correct? His one of our best hitters. What's depressing? Yoshida was great for 4 months and bad for two and wound up putting up decent overall numbers but nothing spectacular, especially considering that he makes 18 million per year and is pretty much a DH. He's not good defensively. Manny could get away with crappy defense because he hit like Manny. Yoshida is no Manny. Yoshida's defense relegates him to DH which puts more pressure on his bat, which is certainly better than the Dom Smith's of the world, but he's injured and who the hell knows when he returns at this point. Do you really think that if Breslow could dump that contract he wouldn't? Think about it. The Red Sox of the near future slant very lefthanded. I'm sure they would prefer a RH DH masher if all things were equal. I wouldnt be surprised if when Mayer comes up he pushes either Grissom or more likely Story to 3b with the other at 2b and pushing Devers to DH where he really belongs. Yoshida doesn't ideally fit the team's best roster construction of the near future, especially when you figure their lineup could soon feature Devers, Casas, Anthony, Mayer, Teel, and possibly both Duran and/or Abreu. Very left handed. Yoshida is kind of extraneous in all this. And they're certainly not pushing any of Duran, Abreu, or Anthony out of LF to make room for Yoshida, that's for sure.
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Post by rhswanzey on May 21, 2024 22:19:54 GMT -5
I broadly agree with you that Yoshida isn’t the cleanest roster fit because of handedness and defensive limitations, but he also has run - very easily - the lowest strikeout rate on a roster chock full of high strikeout rates, and he’s one of only five position players to have a positive win probability added on the season.
If Yoshida wasn’t here, perhaps that’s where Grissom and maybe Valdez are getting at bats if we’re starting a Mayer/Story middle infield sometime next year. I’m not sure that the team would actually be better without him, but the flexibility would be a positive.
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Post by keninten on May 22, 2024 1:31:59 GMT -5
WOW. Writing off Yoshida is seriously depressing to read. Was he not good last year I'm confused. I was upset with casas last year after 1 month because he wasn't taking walks like he did at the end of 2022 and i am still reminded to this day. Yoshi can play LF. Manny did and we won correct? His one of our best hitters. What's depressing? Yoshida was great for 4 months and bad for two and wound up putting up decent overall numbers but nothing spectacular, especially considering that he makes 18 million per year and is pretty much a DH. He's not good defensively. Manny could get away with crappy defense because he hit like Manny. Yoshida is no Manny. Yoshida's defense relegates him to DH which puts more pressure on his bat, which is certainly better than the Dom Smith's of the world, but he's injured and who the hell knows when he returns at this point. Do you really think that if Breslow could dump that contract he wouldn't? Think about it. The Red Sox of the near future slant very lefthanded. I'm sure they would prefer a RH DH masher if all things were equal. I wouldnt be surprised if when Mayer comes up he pushes either Grissom or more likely Story to 3b with the other at 2b and pushing Devers to DH where he really belongs. Yoshida doesn't ideally fit the team's best roster construction of the near future, especially when you figure their lineup could soon feature Devers, Casas, Anthony, Mayer, Teel, and possibly both Duran and/or Abreu. Very left handed. Yoshida is kind of extraneous in all this. And they're certainly not pushing any of Duran, Abreu, or Anthony out of LF to make room for Yoshida, that's for sure. Manny wasn`t a good defender but he got the ball back to the infield quickly.
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Post by bosoxnation on May 22, 2024 5:10:48 GMT -5
WOW. Writing off Yoshida is seriously depressing to read. Was he not good last year I'm confused. I was upset with casas last year after 1 month because he wasn't taking walks like he did at the end of 2022 and i am still reminded to this day. Yoshi can play LF. Manny did and we won correct? His one of our best hitters. What's depressing? Yoshida was great for 4 months and bad for two and wound up putting up decent overall numbers but nothing spectacular, especially considering that he makes 18 million per year and is pretty much a DH. He's not good defensively. Manny could get away with crappy defense because he hit like Manny. Yoshida is no Manny. Yoshida's defense relegates him to DH which puts more pressure on his bat, which is certainly better than the Dom Smith's of the world, but he's injured and who the hell knows when he returns at this point. Do you really think that if Breslow could dump that contract he wouldn't? Think about it. The Red Sox of the near future slant very lefthanded. I'm sure they would prefer a RH DH masher if all things were equal. I wouldnt be surprised if when Mayer comes up he pushes either Grissom or more likely Story to 3b with the other at 2b and pushing Devers to DH where he really belongs. Yoshida doesn't ideally fit the team's best roster construction of the near future, especially when you figure their lineup could soon feature Devers, Casas, Anthony, Mayer, Teel, and possibly both Duran and/or Abreu. Very left handed. Yoshida is kind of extraneous in all this. And they're certainly not pushing any of Duran, Abreu, or Anthony out of LF to make room for Yoshida, that's for sure. Ok ill play your game. No disrespect. When's the last time all 3 of our top 3 prospects made the ML roster? Now lets factor in Roman is 20. Mayer 21 and Teel 22. Now let's pretend that Wong hasn't been AMAZING. Why in the world would we so quick to move on from him. I know its been only 7 weeks but hes the best 2 strike hitter in all of baseball. Either way Are you expecting these kids to take over the AL east? Let's be honest here. The smartest move would be to trade Roman and more for someone like Tatis. Hes a top 50 prospect. We're so overloaded with LHH outfielders are you ready to move on from Duran or Abreu who seem like long term options? Get your RHH outfield stud and then you got Yoshi as DH and 4th OF. You also open up a spot for Nazan who imo will be our future 3rd baseman. By the time Yoshis contract is up Devers moves to DH Nazan or someone to 3rd maybe Grissom who knows. They are all still KIDs. Devers and Tatis would be the new Ortiz/Manny 😆. Hey maybe we even package Roman And Yoshida so a team gets a ML player with someone like Blaze. Idk it's all hypothetical just saying we paid Yoshi. Hes been above AVG player. You also have to understand there's a lot of talent coming from Japan and Yoshi gives us an in. Maybe he helps us get Munetaka Murakami 😆
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Post by bosoxnation on May 22, 2024 5:12:06 GMT -5
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