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Patriots 2024 Offseason Thread
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jan 11, 2024 19:01:31 GMT -5
The process is for hiring minority candidates, Mayo is a minority so why would they need to go thru a process? Because too many teams were giving a token interview to an internal minority and then picking the guy they already wanted anyway. So know they HAVE to cast a broader net and interview more (minority) candidates from outside the organization. Even though they're literally hiring a minority? |
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Post by texs31 on Jan 11, 2024 19:03:07 GMT -5
I don't disagree with the question though. If you are hiring a diverse candidate, one would think that covers it.
And maybe they didn't include that verbiage in the rule assuming that was understood (or I read a piece that only had an abbreviated version).
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jan 12, 2024 9:05:49 GMT -5
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jan 12, 2024 9:05:55 GMT -5
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Post by bloomstaxonomy on Jan 12, 2024 9:07:03 GMT -5
Not thrilled with Mayo, but I'm not mad about it. He's very likeable. From what I've read, he has great leadership qualities. His game plans have been good on D, even if he didn't call the plays.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jan 12, 2024 9:09:20 GMT -5
I just don't get why they moved on from Bill this fast if they were just going to promote Mayo and not even interview anyone else? They had him under control. Why not shop Bill?
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jan 12, 2024 9:22:05 GMT -5
I just don't get why they moved on from Bill this fast if they were just going to promote Mayo and not even interview anyone else? They had him under control. Why not shop Bill? Probably a thank you for 25 years and 6 super bowls to let him go choose his own spot without any hassle |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jan 12, 2024 9:23:17 GMT -5
I just don't get why they moved on from Bill this fast if they were just going to promote Mayo and not even interview anyone else? They had him under control. Why not shop Bill? Probably a thank you for 25 years and 6 super bowls to let him go choose his own spot without any hassle Fair enough I suppose. In other thoughts, I'm assuming Steve is gone. If Flores doesn't get a HC job, I'd love to see a staff of Mayo, Flores, and McDaniels. |
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Post by bloomstaxonomy on Jan 12, 2024 9:41:43 GMT -5
Some people are questioning the idea of a GM not being able to hire his coach.
Interesting to see another Boston sports team with a management structure that doesn't have a clear chain of command in terms of manager (or coach, in this instance) and front office. I wonder if it's a reflection of a more collaborative culture in general among these many different roles in an organization or shifting responsibilities on the part of the manager (coach) and front office. This could be progressive, but it might also be messy. I also wonder if it reflects more direct involvement of ownership in managing the team than ever before.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jan 12, 2024 9:53:40 GMT -5
Some people are questioning the idea of a GM not being able to hire his coach. Interesting to see another Boston sports team with a management structure that doesn't have a clear chain of command in terms of manager (or coach, in this instance) and front office. I wonder if it's a reflection of a more collaborative culture in general among these many different roles in an organization or shifting responsibilities on the part of the manager (coach) and front office. This could be progressive, but it might also be messy. I also wonder if it reflects more direct involvement of ownership in managing the team than ever before. I kind of thought it would go this way too. Whether you want to call it a system, or a philosophy, I think there's a lot of value to having the coach first. I'm listening to Bill Simmons/Mike Lombardi right now, and Lombardi is talking about who owns the culture in an org. I think the Krafts want the coach (and Mayo) to own the culture. Overall I'm bummed they didn't go with Vrabel. I appreciate Kraft's loyalty, but if his goal is to win, keeping the #2 in a system that failed the last 3 years and a guy who has never been a HC becomes a challenge. Obviously best case is a Demarco Ryan situation, where his leadership and experience as a B+ player on good teams transcends lack of experience. But is Mayo going to stick with the McDaniels/Obrien's of the world on Offense? He's literally never been part of an org without them. And that's not cutting the mustard right now. I do wonder who dumped on Mayo those last weeks of the season. Someone saw what was coming and tried to cut his legs out from under him before he even got the job. |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jan 12, 2024 10:10:25 GMT -5
Players seem really stoked about it
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 12, 2024 11:34:16 GMT -5
Not overly impressed, not the worst move. It's like hiring a non proven less experienced Vrabel. It helps keep the defense likely similar. I would have went OC of the Dolphins or Lions, but I would have hired a GM first and let him make that decision! You've likely just caused many GM candidates to not be interested because they want to hire who they want. You have what now, some crazy structure where Mayo isn't just a coach? Is Kraft really trying to recreate what Bill was with Mayo? I'm sorry but Mayo isn't close to where Bill was experience wise. The closest comp to Bill was Josh McDaniels, coaching experience, 20 plus years experience, multiple teams, failure to learn from his mistakes. If Kraft throws a ton of money at McDaniels and can hire him as OC, okay that goes a long ways making this look better. I don't see that as likely, more like he'll join with Bill wherever he ends up.
What's next promoting Matt Groh as GM? Having Bills guys without Bill?
I sure hope I'm overreacting and there's a good plan in place. I just looked at the GM spot as the most important one, the one you fill first. I wanted to switch to an offensive first system given we likely draft a QB and it's the current new NFL way. Mayo doesn't help with any of that and he's kinda lite on coaching experience in general. Is Mayo working with the new GM going to be pounding the table in the draft and free agency to go crazy heavy on offense? Not likely, as he knows nothing about it!
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Post by ephus on Jan 12, 2024 12:14:45 GMT -5
I love this move. It is a loyalty move in a game where that matters. His players love him and will play for him, that matters. Obviously his OC pick will be essesntial, but I'm most interested in who gets tabbed to the the GM because this is such an important offseason for establishing a path back to relevancy for the organization.
Also HUGE marks for Robert's Kraft's language choices yesterday. He called his family "custodians" of the Patriots and said he understand the impact their play has on the pysche of the region. Take note, Sam Kennedy.
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Post by GyIantosca on Jan 12, 2024 13:55:51 GMT -5
I'm ok with mayo. I'm ok with defense . I think this team he is the heartbeat .
My concerns . I m sorry I don't want O'Brien. I dying to see the offense. I really interested in the gm. And pro guy and college guy. I so sick of the way we been doing this drafting .
I have one observation. I believe coach BB being able to get talent from undrafted is a gift and curse. I believe this mad BB undervalued talent. Think about it finding a starting corner undrafted. Make me feel like Superman I can get talent any we here . U believe this also hurt us. Undervalue talent . Draft suffered . My opinion
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Post by costpet on Jan 12, 2024 20:43:14 GMT -5
I think wherever BB ends up, he’ll just be the HC, not the GM. That might be a problem for him, but he’ll have little choice.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jan 13, 2024 11:41:50 GMT -5
Seems like Matt Groh and Eliot Wolfe will be co-GM’s of sorts As long as they are on the same page. I guess the disconnect between Bill and the franchise began in 2019 when the front office wanted him to pick Deebo or Brown and he went with Harry because Herm Edwards told him he was good and because Deebo/Brown were joking around with each other during their pre draft team meeting nesn.com/2024/01/patriots-rumors-what-soured-bill-belichick-on-deebo-samuel-a-j-brown/amp/ |
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jan 13, 2024 12:27:36 GMT -5
Seems like Matt Groh and Eliot Wolfe will be co-GM’s of sorts As long as they are on the same page. I guess the disconnect between Bill and the franchise began in 2019 when the front office wanted him to pick Deebo or Brown and he went with Harry because Herm Edwards told him he was good and because Deebo/Brown were joking around with each other during their pre draft team meeting nesn.com/2024/01/patriots-rumors-what-soured-bill-belichick-on-deebo-samuel-a-j-brown/amp/Firing BB and keeping everything else the same is a choice... I'll wait and see but my gut is housecleaning would have been better. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jan 13, 2024 12:38:38 GMT -5
Matt Groh is responsible for Chad Ryland. I understand Bill might have put Groh in a difficult position, but there's no excuse for the Krafts to not look outside the organization and bring in fresh ideas. I'd feel better knowing they interviewed a bunch of people and landed back to Groh and Wolf.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jan 13, 2024 12:46:14 GMT -5
idc if he picked Chad Ryland at 112 tbh, I think pats fans are being over-dramatic about a rookie kicker. Its far from a disqualifying factor for me
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jan 13, 2024 13:04:35 GMT -5
idc if he picked Chad Ryland at 112 tbh, I think pats fans are being over-dramatic about a rookie kicker. Its far from a disqualifying factor for me I don't mind taking a kicker there, but they need to be at least serviceable. Still plenty of career left. I'd be curious what other picks he's more responsible for or was it everyone and Bill just rubber stabled everything outside of a few instances like N'Keal. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 13, 2024 13:43:20 GMT -5
There's no way for example Jack Jones was picked by Bill, I'd say that's a perfect example to show you it wasn't just Bill picking guys not listening to his scouting guys. The way Matt Groh talked about Thornton after drafting him sure seems like that was his guy. At same time Grohs first two draft are crazy extreme, one bad, one good.
Chad Ryland isn't an example of bad scouting. I had Moody #1, but it was split 50/50 on who was the top kicker in the draft. You can say no kickers that high, but don't say that's some horrible scouting crap. If it is, then every scout sucks because I don't remember anyone not having Moody or Ryland as their top 2 kickers. It's like everyone has Williams and Maye as the top 2 QBs. The NFL draft isn't a science, the best GMs will have tons of draft busts. 49ers have been great, they took Trey Lance in one of the most epic recent failures in football given the price they paid to get him.
Patriots if they knew Douglas would be this good, they take him much earlier.
I don't know if I would have cleaned house, I wouldn't have done this! This comes off as saying Bills the big problem, while trying to create some weird power structure. Co GMs, while it seems Mayo has much more Power than your average coach.
A coach and GM combo can be tricky when the coach has a bunch of power, see the Raiders. Now it seems we have that, yet with co GMs? Who's the tie breaker when they don't agree? Our owner? Nevermind all the framework for the whole offseason was done under Bill with these guys.
I would have simply kept Bill as coach and named this guys co GMs. Each has one vote, thus stoping Bill from taking Strange in 1st round and giving out huge extensions to guys like Godchaux.
This is either going to be brilliant or a complete crap show! I really don't see a middle ground.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jan 13, 2024 14:20:59 GMT -5
There's no way for example Jack Jones was picked by Bill, I'd say that's a perfect example to show you it wasn't just Bill picking guys not listening to his scouting guys. The way Matt Groh talked about Thornton after drafting him sure seems like that was his guy. At same time Grohs first two draft are crazy extreme, one bad, one good. Chad Ryland isn't an example of bad scouting. I had Moody #1, but it was split 50/50 on who was the top kicker in the draft. You can say no kickers that high, but don't say that's some horrible scouting crap. If it is, then every scout sucks because I don't remember anyone not having Moody or Ryland as their top 2 kickers. It's like everyone has Williams and Maye as the top 2 QBs. The NFL draft isn't a science, the best GMs will have tons of draft busts. 49ers have been great, they took Trey Lance in one of the most epic recent failures in football given the price they paid to get him. Patriots if they knew Douglas would be this good, they take him much earlier. I don't know if I would have cleaned house, I wouldn't have done this! This comes off as saying Bills the big problem, while trying to create some weird power structure. Co GMs, while it seems Mayo has much more Power than your average coach. A coach and GM combo can be tricky when the coach has a bunch of power, see the Raiders. Now it seems we have that, yet with co GMs? Who's the tie breaker when they don't agree? Our owner? Nevermind all the framework for the whole offseason was done under Bill with these guys. I would have simply kept Bill as coach and named this guys co GMs. Each has one vote, thus stoping Bill from taking Strange in 1st round and giving out huge extensions to guys like Godchaux. This is either going to be brilliant or a complete crap show! I really don't see a middle ground. I just heard on the radio during their complaints of Groh that Tyquan was his guy with a quote saying, "if you want speed, get speed". Kraft had acknowledged the complexities of demoting a guy who has his fingers in everything and how realistically it wouldn't work. Still, if you're just going to keep the two people he had been working with and just shut the door, then I can't see that being that big of a deal. It was interesting Bill making Mac Jones the 3rd QB in what he knew was probably both their last games in NE. It also sounds like there was some personal problems that were developing and the smear campaign of Bill has already started. nypost.com/2024/01/12/sports/bill-belichick-thought-tom-brady-was-done-before-another-super-bowl-win/ |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 13, 2024 19:28:07 GMT -5
Well I don't think Bill was wrong from a Patriots point of view. He wasn't the same guy that made players better, he wanted nothing to do with developing chemistry with Meyers. Had him benched. Likely played a role in Harris not playing. We were in cap hell, absolutely no way to surround Brady with the crazy talent on the Bucs. Make worse by trading for Sanu because Brady wanted him.
Lots of crap coming out, like process of taking Mac Jones who he didn't love, but thought he could be an Andy Dalton type QB. Davis Mills was #2. Was group decision, with everyone agreeing they needed an upgrade. They weren't trading up for him, if gone they would have taken Mills later in draft. Said while Kraft was in draft room he wasn't involved when pick was made. What I still want to know is what Kraft was saying before the draft started.
Wanted to move on from Mac Jones last year, article implies Kraft was against it. Wanted to go after Will Levis to replace Jones.
I get the sense Robert Kraft voices his opinion, but wasn't ordering him to do this or that exactly, but there's likely much more to this crap. They go on to say Bill kept playing Jones as basically an F U to Kraft, which strongly implies he kept him when he didn't want to because of Kraft.
If Bill liked Levis so much, he should have traded up to bottom of the 1st to draft him. Unless there's much more to this and Kraft wouldn't allow it.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 13, 2024 20:35:03 GMT -5
Jake Bailey doing 29 yard punts for the Dolphins in the playoffs is one of those priceless moments.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jan 14, 2024 10:52:19 GMT -5
theathletic.com/5199290/2024/01/13/bill-belichick-mac-jones-patriots-offense-matt-patricia/"Belichick leaned too heavily on former director of player personnel Nick Caserio and often bypassed advice from his scouting department, according to league sources. The recurring theme had become a major point of contention among Patriots scouts, who felt their input was largely ignored when it was time to set the draft board or make their selections." This is why I do not think it’s necessarily a bad thing to stay in house. It could end up being bad but I think things will be run much differently The stuff about how they handled Mac in 2022 is pretty damning too. Useless advice/help (“find the open man, throw it deep regardless of the coverage”) and multiple guys calling into his headset to give him plays. God damn Patricia was in so far over his head. Play calls not coming in quick enough confirmed in this article “Coaches and executives from other teams who observed the 2022 Patriots told The Athletic that Jones — or any QB — wouldn’t have had a chance to succeed based on the scheme and play calling. It was disjointed, short of creativity and lacking talent.”
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