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Patriots 2024 Offseason Thread
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 22, 2024 14:09:08 GMT -5
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Post by pedroelgrande on Mar 22, 2024 16:18:10 GMT -5
JJ McCarthy’s pro day highlights.
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,045
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Post by mobaz on Mar 22, 2024 16:37:10 GMT -5
JJ McCarthy’s pro day highlights. How does anyone learn anything from this? The Combine seems more valuable than this, and I kinda hate the combine (you see guys train for track and field instead of football, which is why MHJ skipped it). Also I hate his shirt and I hate his hair. I dropped him a grade for those. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 24, 2024 16:43:00 GMT -5
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Mar 24, 2024 17:52:33 GMT -5
He also said they'd be burning cash. I'm assuming there's a benefit to trying to not play your hand. Possibly by making this proclamation they're pretending to not be married to the potential QB which then gives teams an opportunity to think about a potential deal and get maybe get stupid. Like I'm assuming the Bears aren't getting a lot of calls because they're assuming they're taking Caleb. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 25, 2024 4:29:50 GMT -5
He also said they'd be burning cash. I'm assuming there's a benefit to trying to not play your hand. Possibly by making this proclamation they're pretending to not be married to the potential QB which then gives teams an opportunity to think about a potential deal and get maybe get stupid. Like I'm assuming the Bears aren't getting a lot of calls because they're assuming they're taking Caleb. I think they wanted too, just in a smart way. Franchise tags and Titans stopped that. It's Mayo showing how raw he is at coaching . Even if you want to spend, you never say that because crap can happen and fans get upset. Sure I agree there's a benefit to not showing your hand, Mayo should say less if he believes that. He's partly showing their hand with these comments. Given QB trade ups are crazy expensive, I don't see the downside to saying you love all 3 QBs. Implying they might not love a QB at 3 helps them how? Per reports teams were exploring trade ups all the way back to the combine, so it's certainly not to drum up trade interest. BTW he's not GM, that's not his job anyways. If they are like you, I'm taking a QB at #3 no matter what, why are you trying to drum up trade interest? I take this as they like certain QBs and not others, which makes sense. They haven't made a decision, which most teams haven't and they are looking at other players, which they'd be stupid not to. Add in the leak that Daniels was Bills guy and would do anything to get him. Which makes zero sense given Bill was fired at end of the season. Now leaks per Kiper that Patriots don't like Maye. Our front office is either being brilliant or completely stupid! I will choose to believe it's brilliant and they want Washington to pick Daniels. The Team that literally almost hired Bill. Yeah that might be highly biased based on how I feel about certain QB prospects. Otherwise we have big problems with leaks from people inside the team, something we almost never had with Bill. Saying you don't like Maye only hurts your trade prospects even if it's true, no? |
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Post by costpet on Mar 25, 2024 6:56:37 GMT -5
Every day this crap surfaces. They will , they won’t but maybe. Geez. And a whole month to go.Nobody knows and will know until then. The rest is clickbait.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Mar 25, 2024 9:07:49 GMT -5
He also said they'd be burning cash. I'm assuming there's a benefit to trying to not play your hand. Possibly by making this proclamation they're pretending to not be married to the potential QB which then gives teams an opportunity to think about a potential deal and get maybe get stupid. Like I'm assuming the Bears aren't getting a lot of calls because they're assuming they're taking Caleb. I think they wanted too, just in a smart way. Franchise tags and Titans stopped that. It's Mayo showing how raw he is at coaching . Even if you want to spend, you never say that because crap can happen and fans get upset. Sure I agree there's a benefit to not showing your hand, Mayo should say less if he believes that. He's partly showing their hand with these comments. Given QB trade ups are crazy expensive, I don't see the downside to saying you love all 3 QBs. Implying they might not love a QB at 3 helps them how? Per reports teams were exploring trade ups all the way back to the combine, so it's certainly not to drum up trade interest. BTW he's not GM, that's not his job anyways. If they are like you, I'm taking a QB at #3 no matter what, why are you trying to drum up trade interest? I take this as they like certain QBs and not others, which makes sense. They haven't made a decision, which most teams haven't and they are looking at other players, which they'd be stupid not to. Add in the leak that Daniels was Bills guy and would do anything to get him. Which makes zero sense given Bill was fired at end of the season. Now leaks per Kiper that Patriots don't like Maye. Our front office is either being brilliant or completely stupid! I will choose to believe it's brilliant and they want Washington to pick Daniels. The Team that literally almost hired Bill. Yeah that might be highly biased based on how I feel about certain QB prospects. Otherwise we have big problems with leaks from people inside the team, something we almost never had with Bill. Saying you don't like Maye only hurts your trade prospects even if it's true, no? My thinking is that by saying you're open for business then you're more likely to get calls. Like, are GMs going to spend the time putting together a trade proposal for Caleb Williams if the Bears are 100% dead set on him? They could like another QB a lot who is suspected to slide a bit down the board or maybe they'll just be curious what teams are offering. I don't like the idea of trading down for a QB though. I never thought of this question, but it's a good one I heard recently. Name the best QB taken in a trade down and the list is scary bad. I think Kerry Collins was the best QB taken after trading down. I wish I could find the list, but I just remembered it was Collins and a bunch of guys who were fringe starters at best. That makes me nervous about potential trade backs. If you know you want a QB just take whomever you like the most at 3 and just punt on the value. I think you're on to something though about trying to hype the Commanders into Daniels though. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 25, 2024 10:08:46 GMT -5
I think they wanted too, just in a smart way. Franchise tags and Titans stopped that. It's Mayo showing how raw he is at coaching . Even if you want to spend, you never say that because crap can happen and fans get upset. Sure I agree there's a benefit to not showing your hand, Mayo should say less if he believes that. He's partly showing their hand with these comments. Given QB trade ups are crazy expensive, I don't see the downside to saying you love all 3 QBs. Implying they might not love a QB at 3 helps them how? Per reports teams were exploring trade ups all the way back to the combine, so it's certainly not to drum up trade interest. BTW he's not GM, that's not his job anyways. If they are like you, I'm taking a QB at #3 no matter what, why are you trying to drum up trade interest? I take this as they like certain QBs and not others, which makes sense. They haven't made a decision, which most teams haven't and they are looking at other players, which they'd be stupid not to. Add in the leak that Daniels was Bills guy and would do anything to get him. Which makes zero sense given Bill was fired at end of the season. Now leaks per Kiper that Patriots don't like Maye. Our front office is either being brilliant or completely stupid! I will choose to believe it's brilliant and they want Washington to pick Daniels. The Team that literally almost hired Bill. Yeah that might be highly biased based on how I feel about certain QB prospects. Otherwise we have big problems with leaks from people inside the team, something we almost never had with Bill. Saying you don't like Maye only hurts your trade prospects even if it's true, no? My thinking is that by saying you're open for business then you're more likely to get calls. Like, are GMs going to spend the time putting together a trade proposal for Caleb Williams if the Bears are 100% dead set on him? They could like another QB a lot who is suspected to slide a bit down the board or maybe they'll just be curious what teams are offering. I don't like the idea of trading down for a QB though. I never thought of this question, but it's a good one I heard recently. Name the best QB taken in a trade down and the list is scary bad. I think Kerry Collins was the best QB taken after trading down. I wish I could find the list, but I just remembered it was Collins and a bunch of guys who were fringe starters at best. That makes me nervous about potential trade backs. If you know you want a QB just take whomever you like the most at 3 and just punt on the value. I think you're on to something though about trying to hype the Commanders into Daniels though. Teams talk to one another by picking up the phone and talking, not thru posturing in the media. Teams likely called Chicago before they traded Fields to see their appetite for talking and were likely shot down or gave such a ridiculous ask that it was shot down. |
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Post by texs31 on Mar 25, 2024 10:16:50 GMT -5
I really don't think teams "trade down for a QB" though. As a matter fact, I don't think teams trade down for any player.
The idea is (or, at least, s/b) you trade down bc:
1. You don't like who is there at your pick, or
2. There are enough players you DO like at your pick, you feel you can get one of your guys AND pick up extra picks.
So the "failings" in trade backs are just as much an endorsement for trading back as they are a deterrent. The teams in those cases, likely weren't certain enough about the success of that player they'd otherwise take at their pick so they traded back, took the QB AND picked up additional assets.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 25, 2024 13:28:48 GMT -5
I think they wanted too, just in a smart way. Franchise tags and Titans stopped that. It's Mayo showing how raw he is at coaching . Even if you want to spend, you never say that because crap can happen and fans get upset. Sure I agree there's a benefit to not showing your hand, Mayo should say less if he believes that. He's partly showing their hand with these comments. Given QB trade ups are crazy expensive, I don't see the downside to saying you love all 3 QBs. Implying they might not love a QB at 3 helps them how? Per reports teams were exploring trade ups all the way back to the combine, so it's certainly not to drum up trade interest. BTW he's not GM, that's not his job anyways. If they are like you, I'm taking a QB at #3 no matter what, why are you trying to drum up trade interest? I take this as they like certain QBs and not others, which makes sense. They haven't made a decision, which most teams haven't and they are looking at other players, which they'd be stupid not to. Add in the leak that Daniels was Bills guy and would do anything to get him. Which makes zero sense given Bill was fired at end of the season. Now leaks per Kiper that Patriots don't like Maye. Our front office is either being brilliant or completely stupid! I will choose to believe it's brilliant and they want Washington to pick Daniels. The Team that literally almost hired Bill. Yeah that might be highly biased based on how I feel about certain QB prospects. Otherwise we have big problems with leaks from people inside the team, something we almost never had with Bill. Saying you don't like Maye only hurts your trade prospects even if it's true, no? My thinking is that by saying you're open for business then you're more likely to get calls. Like, are GMs going to spend the time putting together a trade proposal for Caleb Williams if the Bears are 100% dead set on him? They could like another QB a lot who is suspected to slide a bit down the board or maybe they'll just be curious what teams are offering. I don't like the idea of trading down for a QB though. I never thought of this question, but it's a good one I heard recently. Name the best QB taken in a trade down and the list is scary bad. I think Kerry Collins was the best QB taken after trading down. I wish I could find the list, but I just remembered it was Collins and a bunch of guys who were fringe starters at best. That makes me nervous about potential trade backs. If you know you want a QB just take whomever you like the most at 3 and just punt on the value. I think you're on to something though about trying to hype the Commanders into Daniels though. Teams are going to call, it's what the GM says. Our GM is on record saying he wants to stockpile picks for example. I know it's hard after two plus decades, but Mayo is just the coach, not the GM. I literally posted that article for you and it was all about you have to love the QB to pick him at #3. Talk of we'll get a player at a position of need, not a QB no matter what. I'd say that's a you problem. You are so focused on QB, it's we trade down for a QB. That's not how I look at it. I take Williams or Maye, then Harrison Jr. Sure you could insert the other two WR or even Joe Alt if you wanted too. A trade down for me is the value is too crazy that I have to take it. Why? I'm perfectly fine with Williams, Maye or Harrison Jr. On my board Daniels isn't an option at #3. Thing is I'm not going to tell the world I don't like Daniels, I'd say the opposite or nothing at all. Teams call I'd tell them I'm willing to talk, but I would need to be blown away given I love the players I can get at #3. If teams stop calling because no one wants to meet that price , I'm fine with that. I'd say your approach doesn't fit because I will love a player at #3 no matter what happens, I don't want to just trade out if I don't take a QB. Again I'm willing to listen, if an offer is just too good maybe I would. Yeah Williams/Maye are my top targets, I'm perfectly fine with Harrison Jr. No Maye and Viking are offer 3 first round picks, I'll have to consider it. If I make a trade, it's about value, not trading down to draft a QB. Say I trade down, my draft board would determine who I take. How many times have teams traded down to take a QB? That has to be a crazy small sample size. Let's look at this another way, if you want to use historical context. How many QBs meet Daniels criteria and have gone on to be great QBs in NFL? One year only of good to great production that go from low round picks to top 5 in one year? People use Joe Burrow because he basically the only one in recent memory. You certainly don't want to look at guys like Zach Wilson and Mitch Trubisky now do you? Thing is there's massive difference between Burrow and Daniels. Like Burrows didn't play for 3 years at Ohio State. His one big year is so good its the type of thing that legends are built on. Daniels didn't do well against very good teams, Burrows destroyed them. Daniels runs a ton, Burrows throws much more. The SEC championship game through the playoffs to a national championship is one of the best runs for any College QB ever. Daniels doesn't have any great games against top teams the last two years. Just my take and maybe I'm dead wrong, I just hate Daniels tape throwing the ball. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Mar 25, 2024 13:30:02 GMT -5
I honestly don’t think the Pats are in a trade down scenario. Both Drake Maye and MHJ are elite talent you can only find at the top of the draft. They have other needs, sure, but you can build teams around these guys. I really hope they don’t get cute.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,867 
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Post by cdj on Mar 25, 2024 13:38:47 GMT -5
Myles Bryant to Houston
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Post by texs31 on Mar 25, 2024 13:46:55 GMT -5
It's very unwise to (over)react to one comment or another. As with all sports reporting, the best thing to do is to look for patterns. What remains consistent from statement to statement (or rumor to rumor).
Not that THAT even points you to the truth but, to the extent any of this stuff is coming from the team, it's hard to tell the same lie over and over without inconsistencies.
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Post by texs31 on Mar 25, 2024 14:27:47 GMT -5
I honestly don’t think the Pats are in a trade down scenario. Both Drake Maye and MHJ are elite talent you can only find at the top of the draft. They have other needs, sure, but you can build teams around these guys. I really hope they don’t get cute. So using the 21 trade up for #3 as a benchmark: - 12th overall - '25 1st Rd Pick - '25 3rd Rd Pick - '26 1st Rd Pick. Now while that was for a QB, SF traded up with a team (Miami) that had a QB. That matters, in all likelihood (unlike that year, teams will be trying to "talk" NE out of taking the QB - while trading up to, in fact, take the QB). So it's not unreasonable to assume an offer to make them move HAS to be better than this package. But again, it's only good business based on their evaluation. I really don't think they trade down to "fill other needs". It really comes down to the players: 1. They don't think Maye (or Daniels) and McCarthy are worthy of the 3rd pick. 2. The difference between MHJ and the other WRs is minimal enough that they think they can trade back and still get a player worthy of that slot. If those things are true, then trading down is good business. If not, take the player (QB or otherwise). |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 25, 2024 15:19:21 GMT -5
I want to add, look who Marvin Harrison Jr. QB was. He went from rookie of the year to a guy who transferred before season was over because he knew they would replace him. All Harrison Jr. did was basically put up the same stats as he did the year before with a stud QB. That's how special a WR he is, why he's my #1 WR and I truly love all 3 of the top guys. Heck I love the whole class, but Harrison Jr. Is special, why a bunch of people rate him #1 in the draft. He might be the safest player in the entire draft.
Looking at that Dolphins trade, they traded back up for Waddle, then had to trade and pay Hill. Wouldn't it have been better to just draft Chase?
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Post by costpet on Mar 25, 2024 15:28:15 GMT -5
Looking back, Mel Kiper had Brady as the 10th rated QB that year. Really slow in the 40 time. Pure pocket passer. Showed good in accuracy and decision making. No real knocks on him. Fun to look back. You never know who will blossom.
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Post by texs31 on Mar 25, 2024 15:50:48 GMT -5
More fodder as "reports" are circulating that execs believe Washington is most likely to take McCarthy.
IF that happens and Patriots choose Daniels over Maye (or over MHJ, or even trading back), pretty sure I know whose head will absolutely explode.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Mar 25, 2024 16:13:07 GMT -5
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Mar 25, 2024 17:30:50 GMT -5
Zolak boards the JJ Train:
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Post by Don Caballero on Mar 25, 2024 20:02:20 GMT -5
More fodder as "reports" are circulating that execs believe Washington is most likely to take McCarthy. IF that happens and Patriots choose Daniels over Maye (or over MHJ, or even trading back), pretty sure I know whose head will absolutely explode. Bro I’ll be so angry if they pass on Maye to take Daniels. If they pass on Maye to draft JJ I might go insane. I don’t like Daniels as a prospect, but at least he has some crazy tools. JJ is like Mac Jones again. |
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Post by rasimon on Mar 25, 2024 20:40:02 GMT -5
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Mar 25, 2024 21:25:11 GMT -5
I really don't think teams "trade down for a QB" though. As a matter fact, I don't think teams trade down for any player. The idea is (or, at least, s/b) you trade down bc: 1. You don't like who is there at your pick, or 2. There are enough players you DO like at your pick, you feel you can get one of your guys AND pick up extra picks. So the "failings" in trade backs are just as much an endorsement for trading back as they are a deterrent. The teams in those cases, likely weren't certain enough about the success of that player they'd otherwise take at their pick so they traded back, took the QB AND picked up additional assets. It's all about tiering, you give a grade to a player with the understanding no matter how good your system is it still has a plus minus range. If the position of need has a drop off down to the next tier that is something to consider. If you think you could drop back pick up additional assets and still pick up a player on they same tier based on your own tiering and evaluation then obviously it becomes a serious consideration. What WAY to many fans don't realize is that publicly shared drafts rarely overlap teams own systems and with each pick made that gap only widens. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 26, 2024 8:13:50 GMT -5
McCarthy isn't like Mac Jones, he's very good at throwing on the run. Like really good, maybe his best trait. I think the Alex Smith comps are better. Him going #2/3 is kinda crazy in this draft, but you can at least bet on his upside throwing. His age and blame the play calling for his production in big games. At minimum he can do things I've never seen Mac Jones do on college or pro tape.
Daniels is like a worse version throwing of Mac Jones, doesn't throw on the move and just takes off running all the time. Yeah the running can be magical, his throwing is just sub par.
Both were rather bad versus Bama.
So I'm like Don 100% in on Maye, but the opposite on McCarthy and Daniels. It's the NFL throwing wins Championships.
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Post by texs31 on Mar 26, 2024 8:52:57 GMT -5
Khari Thompson tweeted something along the lines of JJ McCarthy being a chance to see how high Brock Purdy would be drafted if you knew what he'd become.
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