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Patriots 2024 Offseason Thread
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 23, 2024 1:07:19 GMT -5
Given Rooney rule you have to conduct outside interviews to name a new GM even if you promote a guy under contract. Mayo as Texas pointed out was different because his contract had him as coach in waiting. So unless Kraft isn't naming anyone GM, he had to conduct outside interviews per NFL stupid rules. The fact he's waiting and internal comments are telling to me.
I've seen that, collaboration crap, I just want to know what it actually means.
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Post by texs31 on Jan 23, 2024 8:26:49 GMT -5
Interesting they don't want Steve Belichick as DC, either assistant HC or advisor. Covington seems to be leading the way to DC, which I like. Former TE coach who spent last year with Rams to interview for OC, along with Robinson from Rams. I certainly don't mind our old TE coach who learned under McDaniels then a year under McVay system. Mayo if these reports are true is very much acting like Bill, promote from within and bring back guys you know Based on his comments, it sounds like Mayo has offered both Belichek boys jobs. Not sure what the roles are but . . . Also, seems like all of the reported OC Interviews (Robinson, Pitcher and Caley) are from that McVay tree. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jan 23, 2024 13:09:22 GMT -5
Given Rooney rule you have to conduct outside interviews to name a new GM even if you promote a guy under contract. Mayo as Texas pointed out was different because his contract had him as coach in waiting. So unless Kraft isn't naming anyone GM, he had to conduct outside interviews per NFL stupid rules. The fact he's waiting and internal comments are telling to me. I've seen that, collaboration crap, I just want to know what it actually means. That's a fair point about the Rooney rule, but it's interesting he's not just giving the job to either guy. I do think he could have said something like, "we'll be looking outside the organization, but we're likely to keep the position in house" or really they could have interviewed 2 guys off the street right as they were firing Bill and met the conditions before the Mayo presser. I honestly have no idea what Kraft is doing. It sounds like, for now, it's GM by committee and Wolf, Groh, and Mayo all have one vote. This doesn't seem like a great way to be handling their most important FA in team history. |
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Post by GyIantosca on Jan 23, 2024 13:14:35 GMT -5
I love BB , between him and Brady were a top franchise in the league overall. But I can feel this team needed a fresh voice. I still can’t believe Patricia called the offense . This season to come into this with that offensive line. To take a step back on the wide receivers. It’s just inexcusable . I’m still scratching my head.
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Post by texs31 on Jan 23, 2024 14:48:58 GMT -5
Per Breer, Waldron also interviewed before taking the Bears job. So that's another from the tree.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jan 24, 2024 10:14:53 GMT -5
So noted Data Guy Arjun Menon, who I was unfamiliar with until this morning, offers chart on social media showing (i think) that BB & Patriots have been pretty good at drafting (relative to the league & available draft capital) from 2013-2022: pbs.twimg.com/media/GEjefU-aAAA6sKg?format=jpg&name=largeBtw, this chart was posted in support of the argument that Tom Telesco -- ex-Chargers GM in the news because of links to Raiders job -- was not very good at drafting. Patriots just happened to show up on top. |
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Post by rasimon on Jan 25, 2024 0:09:09 GMT -5
So noted Data Guy Arjun Menon, who I was unfamiliar with until this morning, offers chart on social media showing (i think) that BB & Patriots have been pretty good at drafting (relative to the league & available draft capital) from 2013-2022: pbs.twimg.com/media/GEjefU-aAAA6sKg?format=jpg&name=largeBtw, this chart was posted in support of the argument that Tom Telesco -- ex-Chargers GM in the news because of links to Raiders job -- was not very good at drafting. Patriots just happened to show up on top. Im not exactly sure what that chart means. But its possible it is consistent with other results. 2013-2016 the Pats drafting was quite good. During that period the sum of their Jimmy Johnson Values ranked #30, but the current wAV (through 2023-24) of their draftees from this period ranks #7. Resulting in wAV/JJval ranked #1. They got a lot out of very little draft capital. Since then though, their JJval ranks #27, their wAV/JJval ranks #17, resulting in wAV ranking #30. Note that summin wAV gives more weight to players who were drafted earlier as they have had more time to accumulate points. The last two years drafts have not been great. 2022: JJval 19, wAV/JJval 19, wAV 22. 2023: JJval 14, wAV/JJval 13, wAV 11. 2023 looks much better than 2022 and could have been even better has Gonzalez not gotten injured. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 25, 2024 9:42:02 GMT -5
Given Rooney rule you have to conduct outside interviews to name a new GM even if you promote a guy under contract. Mayo as Texas pointed out was different because his contract had him as coach in waiting. So unless Kraft isn't naming anyone GM, he had to conduct outside interviews per NFL stupid rules. The fact he's waiting and internal comments are telling to me. I've seen that, collaboration crap, I just want to know what it actually means. That's a fair point about the Rooney rule, but it's interesting he's not just giving the job to either guy. I do think he could have said something like, "we'll be looking outside the organization, but we're likely to keep the position in house" or really they could have interviewed 2 guys off the street right as they were firing Bill and met the conditions before the Mayo presser. I honestly have no idea what Kraft is doing. It sounds like, for now, it's GM by committee and Wolf, Groh, and Mayo all have one vote. This doesn't seem like a great way to be handling their most important FA in team history. Whole point of Rooney rule is you interview guys before making a decision. You going to interview for a job a team announced you can't get? Just my two cents, but I don't think Kraft truly knows what the titles will be. Mayo is clearly going to be more than just a coach. Kraft believes they have enough talent, but wants to see how it works. It makes sense given the different pecking order he's creating. I wouldn't have done it, Mayo isn't close to Bill experience wise. I truly feel Kraft is making a huge mistake thinking Mayo is Bill because he got the same feeling he was his guy. It's like he's switching out Bill for Mayo thinking that fixes everything. Doing that during your most important offseason since drafting Drew Bledsoe decades ago is crazy. If you wanted Mayo as coach okay, but he shouldn't have say on personnel at the level it seems he does. It's what has destroyed most of Bills guys that went on to be head coaches. I hope I'm wrong, I wouldn't have done things this way. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 25, 2024 10:08:56 GMT -5
So noted Data Guy Arjun Menon, who I was unfamiliar with until this morning, offers chart on social media showing (i think) that BB & Patriots have been pretty good at drafting (relative to the league & available draft capital) from 2013-2022: pbs.twimg.com/media/GEjefU-aAAA6sKg?format=jpg&name=largeBtw, this chart was posted in support of the argument that Tom Telesco -- ex-Chargers GM in the news because of links to Raiders job -- was not very good at drafting. Patriots just happened to show up on top. Im not exactly sure what that chart means. But its possible it is consistent with other results. 2013-2016 the Pats drafting was quite good. During that period the sum of their Jimmy Johnson Values ranked #30, but the current wAV (through 2023-24) of their draftees from this period ranks #7. Resulting in wAV/JJval ranked #1. They got a lot out of very little draft capital. Since then though, their JJval ranks #27, their wAV/JJval ranks #17, resulting in wAV ranking #30. Note that summin wAV gives more weight to players who were drafted earlier as they have had more time to accumulate points. The last two years drafts have not been great. 2022: JJval 19, wAV/JJval 19, wAV 22. 2023: JJval 14, wAV/JJval 13, wAV 11. 2023 looks much better than 2022 and could have been even better has Gonzalez not gotten injured. First off wAV by Football Refrence is a horrible stat, Mac Jones ranks 13th in the 2022 draft for example. Now go add in undrafted guys, that's a huge part of the draft and tons of talent in the NFL comes from that pool that you keep overlooking. Do that and you'll understand the difference between your views and others. 2nd you do the correct thing and weigh draft capital to value, placing Patriots 1st and 17th. Then use raw wAV to make a point like you're right. No, the adjusted one is right, you have to adjust for where teams pick and how many draft picks they have. The 1st pick isn't equal to the 30th pick. Nevermind all the trades for players like Cooks and Trent Brown just to name a view. The loss of picks for deflate gate. Just using wAV is cherry picking stats and not including undraftdd guys is criminal. Go add in Jones, Jackson, Meyers etc. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jan 25, 2024 12:00:31 GMT -5
That's a fair point about the Rooney rule, but it's interesting he's not just giving the job to either guy. I do think he could have said something like, "we'll be looking outside the organization, but we're likely to keep the position in house" or really they could have interviewed 2 guys off the street right as they were firing Bill and met the conditions before the Mayo presser. I honestly have no idea what Kraft is doing. It sounds like, for now, it's GM by committee and Wolf, Groh, and Mayo all have one vote. This doesn't seem like a great way to be handling their most important FA in team history. Whole point of Rooney rule is you interview guys before making a decision. You going to interview for a job a team announced you can't get? Just my two cents, but I don't think Kraft truly knows what the titles will be. Mayo is clearly going to be more than just a coach. Kraft believes they have enough talent, but wants to see how it works. It makes sense given the different pecking order he's creating. I wouldn't have done it, Mayo isn't close to Bill experience wise. I truly feel Kraft is making a huge mistake thinking Mayo is Bill because he got the same feeling he was his guy. It's like he's switching out Bill for Mayo thinking that fixes everything. Doing that during your most important offseason since drafting Drew Bledsoe decades ago is crazy. If you wanted Mayo as coach okay, but he shouldn't have say on personnel at the level it seems he does. It's what has destroyed most of Bills guys that went on to be head coaches. I hope I'm wrong, I wouldn't have done things this way. The Giants literally did that when Bill Belichick texted the wrong Brian on accident. That was from the organization standpoint. The Patriots wouldn't have had to admit it was a farce to the interviewed. To be fair, Mike Tomlin was a token interview to meet the rule, but he impressed enough to actually win the job. Even if it's a "fake" interview, I'd go to it if I'm trying to get my name into conversations if I were a not well known name/sought after candidate as well as gaining the experience of interviewing for these types of jobs. I agree about how it feels like he's giving more executive power to Mayo than what's being led on. That is a huge mistake, but I do believe Kraft will eventually land on a GM. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jan 25, 2024 13:46:28 GMT -5
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 25, 2024 14:27:28 GMT -5
Whole point of Rooney rule is you interview guys before making a decision. You going to interview for a job a team announced you can't get? Just my two cents, but I don't think Kraft truly knows what the titles will be. Mayo is clearly going to be more than just a coach. Kraft believes they have enough talent, but wants to see how it works. It makes sense given the different pecking order he's creating. I wouldn't have done it, Mayo isn't close to Bill experience wise. I truly feel Kraft is making a huge mistake thinking Mayo is Bill because he got the same feeling he was his guy. It's like he's switching out Bill for Mayo thinking that fixes everything. Doing that during your most important offseason since drafting Drew Bledsoe decades ago is crazy. If you wanted Mayo as coach okay, but he shouldn't have say on personnel at the level it seems he does. It's what has destroyed most of Bills guys that went on to be head coaches. I hope I'm wrong, I wouldn't have done things this way. The Giants literally did that when Bill Belichick texted the wrong Brian on accident. That was from the organization standpoint. The Patriots wouldn't have had to admit it was a farce to the interviewed. To be fair, Mike Tomlin was a token interview to meet the rule, but he impressed enough to actually win the job. Even if it's a "fake" interview, I'd go to it if I'm trying to get my name into conversations if I were a not well known name/sought after candidate as well as gaining the experience of interviewing for these types of jobs. I agree about how it feels like he's giving more executive power to Mayo than what's being led on. That is a huge mistake, but I do believe Kraft will eventually land on a GM. You said you wanted Kraft to announce it, that's not the same. We only know about what the Giants did because Bill texted the wrong Brian, so Flores knew it was a sham interview. Big difference between a token interview and a sham one when they already hired a guy. Lots of crap happens behind the scenes, you don't announce it. Flores is literally suing the NFL and that crap with Giants is part of it. The fact Tomlin got the Jobs, shows it was legit and no one was hired before he interviewed. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 25, 2024 14:46:48 GMT -5
We'll have to see on Boutte, he's literally charged with saying he was 21 online when he wasn't and underage gambling. No criminal record, he should be able to reduce the felony in a pea deal, pay a fine and do community service.
If he was in the NFL at the time, 2 game suspension for betting on non NFL sports, plus whatever for the underage part. He better hope he didn't bet on NFL games, that a year first offense.
Certainly not what you wanted to see, but again he had red flags, why he went in 6th round.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 25, 2024 14:47:10 GMT -5
Maybe, but it’s kind of silly if so…. First he was basically a child and it was before his time in the NFL. Calvin Ridley did the same thing while he was in the NFL and was suspended a year. I don’t think they are going to suspend Boutte for something he did before he was even in the league. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 25, 2024 14:48:02 GMT -5
We'll have to see on Boutte, he's literally charged with saying he was 21 online when he wasn't and underage gambling. No criminal record, he should be able to reduce the felony in a pea deal, pay a fine and do community service. If he was in the NFL at the time, 2 game suspension for betting on non NFL sports, plus whatever for the underage part. He better hope he didn't bet on NFL games, that a year first offense. Certainly not what you wanted to see, but again he had red flags, why he went in 6th round. If he bet on NFL games when he was in college, why would that matter? |
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Post by texs31 on Jan 25, 2024 15:52:04 GMT -5
FWIW - the now CAN suspend him for what he did pre-NFL per a change in the rules. Whether they will or not is another story.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jan 25, 2024 16:02:42 GMT -5
The Giants literally did that when Bill Belichick texted the wrong Brian on accident. That was from the organization standpoint. The Patriots wouldn't have had to admit it was a farce to the interviewed. To be fair, Mike Tomlin was a token interview to meet the rule, but he impressed enough to actually win the job. Even if it's a "fake" interview, I'd go to it if I'm trying to get my name into conversations if I were a not well known name/sought after candidate as well as gaining the experience of interviewing for these types of jobs. I agree about how it feels like he's giving more executive power to Mayo than what's being led on. That is a huge mistake, but I do believe Kraft will eventually land on a GM. You said you wanted Kraft to announce it, that's not the same. We only know about what the Giants did because Bill texted the wrong Brian, so Flores knew it was a sham interview. Big difference between a token interview and a sham one when they already hired a guy. Lots of crap happens behind the scenes, you don't announce it. Flores is literally suing the NFL and that crap with Giants is part of it. The fact Tomlin got the Jobs, shows it was legit and no one was hired before he interviewed. The point is, the Patriots could have just said they were legitimate interviews. The only reason why the Giants got in trouble was because of Bill. Tomlin is a success story that came out of what was likely a check box being filled. The main point is Kraft could have done these interviews before the Mayo presser and he could have done them by now. He's reiterated they're reviewing and going to take their time and explore outside candidates. I find that to be a weird situation. He could have said it's going to be kept in-house after meeting with a few candidates and they'll carefully review each option internally before announcing it. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jan 25, 2024 16:05:01 GMT -5
Maybe, but it’s kind of silly if so…. First he was basically a child and it was before his time in the NFL. Calvin Ridley did the same thing while he was in the NFL and was suspended a year. I don’t think they are going to suspend Boutte for something he did before he was even in the league. Maybe I misunderstood the news when it broke. I thought they said he ran it. Either way, he's facing criminal charges, it's related to gambling on games and he's a 6th rounder who hasn't played much. You forgive a Calvin Ridley. I don't know about a 6th rounder with limited playing time. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 25, 2024 16:15:20 GMT -5
We'll have to see on Boutte, he's literally charged with saying he was 21 online when he wasn't and underage gambling. No criminal record, he should be able to reduce the felony in a pea deal, pay a fine and do community service. If he was in the NFL at the time, 2 game suspension for betting on non NFL sports, plus whatever for the underage part. He better hope he didn't bet on NFL games, that a year first offense. Certainly not what you wanted to see, but again he had red flags, why he went in 6th round. If he bet on NFL games when he was in college, why would that matter? I'm talking when he turned 21 and was in the NFL. He made of ton of bets, could he just stop when he got to the NFL? |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 25, 2024 16:18:38 GMT -5
You said you wanted Kraft to announce it, that's not the same. We only know about what the Giants did because Bill texted the wrong Brian, so Flores knew it was a sham interview. Big difference between a token interview and a sham one when they already hired a guy. Lots of crap happens behind the scenes, you don't announce it. Flores is literally suing the NFL and that crap with Giants is part of it. The fact Tomlin got the Jobs, shows it was legit and no one was hired before he interviewed. The point is, the Patriots could have just said they were legitimate interviews. The only reason why the Giants got in trouble was because of Bill. Tomlin is a success story that came out of what was likely a check box being filled. The main point is Kraft could have done these interviews before the Mayo presser and he could have done them by now. He's reiterated they're reviewing and going to take their time and explore outside candidates. I find that to be a weird situation. He could have said it's going to be kept in-house after meeting with a few candidates and they'll carefully review each option internally before announcing it. I don't see the benefit of doing that, other than I guess making you happy. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jan 25, 2024 16:26:32 GMT -5
The point is, the Patriots could have just said they were legitimate interviews. The only reason why the Giants got in trouble was because of Bill. Tomlin is a success story that came out of what was likely a check box being filled. The main point is Kraft could have done these interviews before the Mayo presser and he could have done them by now. He's reiterated they're reviewing and going to take their time and explore outside candidates. I find that to be a weird situation. He could have said it's going to be kept in-house after meeting with a few candidates and they'll carefully review each option internally before announcing it. I don't see the benefit of doing that, other than I guess making you happy. Yeah, I would like to have a GM. What's the point of not saying it if you're committed to going with either guy? |
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Jan 25, 2024 16:54:01 GMT -5
Boutte made $550k in his betting. I guess if he's out of the NFL he's got a career as a sharp. That's 3/4 of his 6th round pick salary.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jan 25, 2024 17:03:27 GMT -5
Boutte made $550k in his betting. I guess if he's out of the NFL he's got a career as a sharp. That's 3/4 of his 6th round pick salary. Incredible. |
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Post by texs31 on Jan 25, 2024 17:27:44 GMT -5
With Morris going to Atlanta, talk is he could take Zac Robinson with him. Based on reported interviews (and/or assumptions) that could leave the NE OC job to either Caley or Josh McD.
Also, with BB not taking anyone with him, some current coaches that might've otherwise left, could now stay. Not sure if/how this impacts the DC decisions.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jan 25, 2024 18:44:55 GMT -5
Boutte made $550k in his betting. I guess if he's out of the NFL he's got a career as a sharp. That's 3/4 of his 6th round pick salary. *This was reported inaccurately. He "cashed" $550K in tickets, but of course these betting tickets include the initial wager. According to the arrest document, he put into his two accounts roughly $135K and removed roughly $50K. I believe he has/had about $300 in one account. The status of the 2nd account is, I believe, closed. I will verify. Like most who wager against a rake, he's a net loser. *I'm not surprised Callaghan got it wrong. |
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