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5/6-5/9 Red Sox vs. Twins Series Thread
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Post by James Dunne on May 7, 2013 10:15:22 GMT -5
I like the Rowland-Smith idea. He may have an out clause? I could see him being a short-term option and then jettisoning him. The Sox do still have the Hassan 60 day move to work with, right? Rowland-Smith doesn't qualify as an Article XX(B) Free Agent, so he would've have the automatic June 1 opt-out. I don't see anything about him having negotiated an opt-out, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have one as we often find out about these after the fact (Ohlendorf last year for example). Hassan and Morales are both 60-day options. Haven't gotten a recent update on Hassan, and Morales was shut down again. Also, if Aceves isn't the one getting the call, he should be a candidate for a DFA. As Andrews and Hatfield were pointing out yesterday on Twitter, if they don't want him for this situation, he really has no place being on the 40-man.
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Post by Guidas on May 7, 2013 11:32:53 GMT -5
I think Rowland-Smith plays as a lefty-on-lefty specialist in MLB, if at all. Not someone I'd want throwing a whole inning against L & R batters, even against the Twins. I think he gets eaten alive in the AL East, too.
To be honest, there isn't a man in the Pawtucket pen that gives me any confidence at all. I still cringe when Wilson comes into a game for anything more than low leverage situations/2 or more run leads.
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Post by James Dunne on May 7, 2013 11:52:09 GMT -5
He's probably no worse than Aceves. His fastball isn't all that hard, and he's not especially deceptive with his delivery, so I don't know that he has a lot of upside as a specialist. He has durability though. At worst it seems like he'd be a left-handed non-crazy Aceves, which isn't obviously isn't what you want as a first option, but isn't so bad in an emergency.
With Uehara, Tazawa, and Breslow, the Red Sox have three arms that still should play in high-leverage situations. I mean, at this point we're talking about #11 or so on the reliever depth chart. Most teams don't have real exciting options there. What they need in the short-term is someone who is durable and close enough to replacement level to burn some innings, even if it ends up being in a losing effort.
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Post by okin15 on May 7, 2013 12:13:47 GMT -5
If Hassan goes to the 60-day, does his clock start at zero? He's been on the AAA DL if I understand correctly, and I'm not clear on how that transition works. Also, he would start accruing MLB service time, which probably has minimal impact on the decision, but is a factor of some sort.
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Post by Guidas on May 7, 2013 13:13:39 GMT -5
On MLB radio Farrell says Tazawa will be closer and Uehara will be more of an 8th inning guy.
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Post by Oregon Norm on May 7, 2013 13:44:43 GMT -5
That's not bad at all. We can hope that they both catch a break over the next few games, with 7+ innings from the starting pitchers and some nice leads that let some of the other options come to the front. Anyone have a bead on Hanrahan's injury?
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Post by pedroelgrande on May 7, 2013 14:12:20 GMT -5
On MLB radio Farrell says Tazawa will be closer and Uehara will be more of an 8th inning guy. Wow Mr. Farrell at least give me some credit. Hopefully Tazawa does well and takes the job so that when Bailey comes back he can be the power arm you unleash whenever needed.
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Post by dmaineah on May 7, 2013 14:16:31 GMT -5
With Uehara, Tazawa, and Breslow, the Red Sox have three arms that still should play in high-leverage situations. I mean, at this point we're talking about #11 or so on the reliever depth chart. Most teams don't have real exciting options there. What they need in the short-term is someone who is durable and close enough to replacement level to burn some innings, even if it ends up being in a losing effort. I think Britton should be brought up to fill this role. He's on the 40 man so might as well bring him up as a long man and see where Bailey is in a week from now. Give him a shot.
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Post by Guidas on May 7, 2013 14:28:43 GMT -5
Webster in the clubhouse. Prob just in the neighborhood, thought he'd stop by and say hi to the fellas.
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Post by threeifbaerga on May 7, 2013 14:29:52 GMT -5
Beaten to the punch.
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Post by Oregon Norm on May 7, 2013 14:59:00 GMT -5
Webster in the clubhouse. Prob just in the neighborhood, thought he'd stop by and say hi to the fellas. Bring on the reserves...
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Post by gregblossersbelly on May 7, 2013 15:07:38 GMT -5
Alex Speier tweeted that he thinks Webster gets the start tomorrow.
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Post by Guidas on May 7, 2013 15:18:02 GMT -5
So Doubront is tonight's long man - unless they don't need one, then he starts Thursday with Webster going tomorrow, but if Webster pancakes then they think Mortensen will be recovered enough to be the long man tomorrow? Is that how this is going? Um, OK...
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Post by James Dunne on May 7, 2013 15:22:46 GMT -5
So Doubront is tonight's long man - unless they don't need one, then he starts Thursday with Webster going tomorrow, but if Webster pancakes then they think Mortensen will be recovered enough to be the long man tomorrow? Is that how this is going? Um, OK... Agreed. This seems needlessly complicated. Either bring Aceves back to pitch out of the bullpen, or DFA him and get some relief help. Mucking up the rotation like this is foolish and doesn't fix the problem.
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Post by bsout2 on May 7, 2013 15:24:12 GMT -5
If Hanrahan goes to the DL. They could move Doubront to the bullpen and add Webster to the rotation. And everyone thought I was crazy.
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Post by Oregon Norm on May 7, 2013 15:46:10 GMT -5
So Doubront is tonight's long man - unless they don't need one, then he starts Thursday with Webster going tomorrow, but if Webster pancakes then they think Mortensen will be recovered enough to be the long man tomorrow? Is that how this is going? Um, OK... Agreed. This seems needlessly complicated. Either bring Aceves back to pitch out of the bullpen, or DFA him and get some relief help. Mucking up the rotation like this is foolish and doesn't fix the problem. Oh, I don't know. Sends a pretty clear message to Doubront about his alternatives, and it gives the best of the Sox' pitching prospects another start in the ML as part of his OJT. I'd also point out that Doubront has done very well in the long role in the past, and that does appear to be what the Sox need at this point given Mortensen's recent usage. So there are a few pluses here. It does not address the question of Aceves' future with the team, but he's had a first-hand look at Webster doing his thing so he's got some idea of why the kid got the call. i expect this will one (max) and done for Webster, just as his last trip into town was. We can hope that, after that, the question of Hanrahan's injury will have sorted itself out and other moves will be made to shore up the relief corps. They do have a few options which Matt James Dunne has detailed very nicely. This was one of them, though listed as "unlikely". If Hanrahan goes to the DL. They could move Doubront to the bullpen and add Webster to the rotation. And everyone thought I was crazy. Probably not. You're option was included in the above list after all, so the idea caught on. You do get the prize for getting the exact scenario lined up. I hadn't considered it till you brought it up. It does make some sense though the others do as well.
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Post by mredsox89 on May 7, 2013 15:49:08 GMT -5
Surely a short term option according to Farrell. But definitely sending a message to Felix that they expect more out of him, even if he's a "#5 starter". I certainly don't have a problem with them not calling up AA, but if they're not going to call him up now, what will it take for them to use him? I guess they can keep him in case multiple starters go down with injuries at the same time, but it's clearly a hinderance on the 40 man roster
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on May 7, 2013 16:16:13 GMT -5
If Hanrahan goes to the DL. They could move Doubront to the bullpen and add Webster to the rotation. And everyone thought I was crazy. Excellent call!
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 7, 2013 16:31:46 GMT -5
I think mredsox89's point that this is a message to Doubront is pretty apt. There was an element to this I wasn't getting, and I think that's it.
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Post by Guidas on May 7, 2013 16:36:35 GMT -5
So 1 turn through and Doubront goes back into the rotation and Webster back to AAA...But if, say, Webster goes 7 innings and gives up 2 runs or less, then what do we do Ben? Webster may be the better pitcher, and I'm all about winning now, but by moving Doubront to the pen to "send a message" (if that's what's up) you just devalued a trade chip that could go into a deal for something better at C or somewhere else of need - and who right projects as a controlable #3 (and left-handed) for about 20 MLB teams. Unless Ben has a deal more or less lined up and is waiting for one more piece to fall in place. And btw, Doubront only had one bad start, even though his velo is down a bit. I can't figure this out at all.
That said, hope Webster pitches well and Doubront doesn't blow any games by walking a couple batters in a row - which, to state the semi-obvious, is something that is often much more costly in one inning of work from 7th inning on in relief than it is over 5-6 innings in a start.
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Post by mredsox89 on May 7, 2013 16:44:30 GMT -5
I think mredsox89's point that this is a message to Doubront is pretty apt. There was an element to this I wasn't getting, and I think that's it. For the first time in a while, the Sox have legitimate guys ready to go in AAA, and even depth beyond those high talent guys. You have Webster and RDLR ready or just about ready with the opportunity to be elite arms, and then you have addition depth guys like Hernandez, Wright, Doyle, and Aceves. Then add on the potential top prospect arms in AA with Ranaudo/Barnes, and depth there in Workman and Britton, and you can finally put pressure on the back half of your rotation if they aren't performing the way they are expected to. Often times teams don't have enough depth to cut off a back end SP. For most teams, a mediocre starter is better than whatever is available in the high minors. That's just not the case right now with the Sox, an that's a fantastic position to be in
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Post by Oregon Norm on May 7, 2013 16:55:00 GMT -5
So 1 turn through and Doubront goes back into the rotation and Webster back to AAA...But if, say, Webster goes 7 innings and gives up 2 runs or less, then what do we do Ben? Webster may be the better pitcher, and I'm all about winning now, but by moving Doubront to the pen to "send a message" (if that's what's up) you just devalued a trade chip that could go into a deal for something better at C or somewhere else of need - and who right projects as a controlable #3 (and left-handed) for about 20 MLB teams. Unless Ben has a deal more or less lined up and is waiting for one more piece to fall in place. And btw, Doubront only had one bad start, even though his velo is down a bit. I can't figure this out at all. That said, hope Webster pitches well and Doubront doesn't blow any games by walking a couple batters in a row - which, to state the semi-obvious, is something that is often much more costly in one inning of work from 7th inning on in relief than it is over 5-6 innings in a start. I was serious about the OJT. There's a plan here, I believe. As the season moves on the team may see a higher likelihood of some meaningful games in August and September. If that's the case, having Webster get his feet wet now makes sense. Even if he throws a gem, I believe he's going back down, stashed for a possible late-season run. The Sox' FO's vision of their season is probably evolving. If so, this sort of prep work makes sense. You don't want a pitcher getting his first taste of the majors with screaming crowds and late-inning pressure.
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on May 7, 2013 17:06:22 GMT -5
I think every pitch Webster throws at AAA is a wasted pitch he could have thrown for the Sox. If he pitches well, I can't see him being sent back down. As a starter Doubront is not likely to recover his fastball this season. He might be able to do it in the bullpen.
What are the odds that a team with two closers loses both of them with arm injuries back to back? They say Bailey is not seriously hurt and will be back soon. The wording of the description of Hanrahan is more indicative of a longer time out.
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Post by Oregon Norm on May 7, 2013 17:29:36 GMT -5
My own opinion, but I don't think this has much to do with Doubront's hard stuff. His K rate is the highest it's been yet at 10.3 per 9. His nibbling on the other hand perpetually gets him into trouble, stretching the counts and forcing him to throw hittable stuff. I don't know that he's come to the realization yet that the stuff that worked in AAA won't cut it here. He's going to have to figure out how to attack hitters consistently, to make them hit his pitch. The idea of simplifying his repertoire out of the pen makes sense with that as context (see Dunne's notes about the alternatives with Hanrahan unavailable).
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 7, 2013 19:20:36 GMT -5
As a starter Doubront is not likely to recover his fastball this season. He might be able to do it in the bullpen. Why not? Farrell said in the WEEI pregame that they're going to have him do more aggressive long toss between starts to try and build back arm strength to get that arm speed back up. I get the Webster is better than Doubront argument, but there's also something to be said for keeping as much depth at that position as possible. Unfortunately, the major league roster rules don't let the Red Sox send Doubront to Pawtucket, and if he moves to the bullpen full time, we have no idea how he'd bounce back if they needed him to start. In the grander scheme, Doubront in the rotation and Webster in Pawtucket may be better than Doubront in the bullpen, Webster in the rotation, and Aceves as the next option if there's an injury in the rotation. For now at least.
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