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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 29, 2024 9:32:42 GMT -5
I wanted to start this thread so we could talk about the draft and not have it get lost in the regular season thread. If the finals goes seven games it would almost take you to the NBA draft, now less than 30 days away!
We have picks 30 and 55 from Dalls, which seems fitting.
I feel like I say this every year, but this draft is extreme. No one seems to have a clue, guys are just outside the lottery for some and 2nd round for other.
Like I've said for years I would focus on guys like Pritchard and Hauser, but Stevens draft type is basically the opposite of that. Young athletic players not close to being ready, instead of older more ready players. I do have to acknowledge this could all be for nothing as our GM could trade the picks or do what he did last year again. For now I will focus on players most have being available for us to draft.
Pick 30 Justin Edwards wing from Kentucky. Former top recruit who was a big disappointment. Stevens wants young upside guys Edward's has nice upside as a 3 and D wing. His shot likes good, Alabama tape shows his upside. I like that he embraced his role in College, not something many players rated like he was do.
Others to consider Kevin McCullar Jr., Ryan Dunn, Adam Bona, Bobi Kinton, Jaylon Tyson and Daron Holmes, though I doubt Holmes last that long.
I have to mention Ryan Dunn who most consider the best defender in the draft. He's just so bad on offense he might be unplayable, can't shoot and doesn't create. McCullar and Tyson might be the best NBA ready two way players. Bona is your Robert Williams type big, athletic freak, with huge wingspan that isn't very skilled.
I'll update after watching more tape.
Pick 55 Pelle Larsson SG reminds me of a lesser Pritchard. Very good on ball defender, likely better than Pritchard, but he's not a switchable type player. Slow release on 3 point shot, but he's very good at them. Could thrive in a bench role given the amount of open 3 point shots are role players get.
Have to mention Ariel Hukporti C who we talked about last year from Germany. A skilled athletic huge center. Type of player you could keep overseas and see what happens.
So who do you guys like? Anyone have the next Desmond Banes?
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Post by rjp313jr on May 29, 2024 10:10:27 GMT -5
I’m kind of focused on bigs but see an argument for every position. I think there’s a good chance they trade the first for multiple seconds (one this year and one or more future years), unless someone falls that they really like. I also think it’s possible they draft and stash a guy. Not sure they want that guaranteed salary on the books for a guy they aren’t sure of.
Bigs:
Holmes is a guy I’d trade up for if the cost is multiple future seconds on top of number 30.
Chomche (young/raw huge upside can maybe be stashed over seas)
Ighodaro - bad shooter so not ideal but his switchable defense fits and he’s a senior so less development likely needed to help to some degree. Good passer too.
Post - local guy from BC… already 24 but a great shooter, legit 7 feet. Solid interior defender. Would be a nice get with the second round pick.
Can never have enough shooting so Payton Sanfort is an interesting guy in the second round .
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Post by crossedsabres8 on May 29, 2024 10:25:53 GMT -5
I watch UVA basketball religiously so I'll give my input on Ryan Dunn:
Absolutely elite help defender, the best I've ever seen at the college level. He's obviously long but even so his length is deceptive and he has incredible instincts and timing to block and bother shots, as well as the anticipation to break up passing lanes. It's incredible to watch. He bates players into thinking they have a step so he can get up and block their shots. He is also very very quick on recoveries. Sometimes it looks like there is a wide open shot and Dunn appears out of no where to defend it.
As a one-on-one defender he improved a lot from his first year to his second, mostly because he put on weight and muscle. Mostly his first year he just kind of struggles to handle big beefy dudes, but that issue went away his second year. He is really hard to attack on switches because a guard can't really get any advantage on him. On the other hand he's also only 6'8 so it's not like you're going to want him matched up against a big center. Also, with his elite off ball defense you may want to put him in a rover type role to maximize that.
I read a report that said he's the best defensive prospect in the draft and the worst offensive prospect which is probably accurate. He did improve his handle and passing dramatically from year 1 to year 2, but that was starting from completely incapable of half-court offense to being able to actually play on the perimeter. The trend is good, but it still isn't close to NBA level.
He was pretty good at finishing inside and had most of his success on offense making moves in the post, but that was mostly by using his length and athleticism advantage that he had over college defenders, I don't think that's a viable path to him in the NBA unless he's exploiting mismatches over smaller defenders, and when is he going to get that chance with his overall offensive skillset?
He is great in transition, capable of taking a steal and beating the other team down the court off the dribble and finish strong. He's very fast and quick and his athleticism plays up in transition.
And then there is his shot. So, as a recruit in high school, he was known as a shooter. Then he grew like 6 inches and he has completely lost his shot. I can't really overstate how terrible of a shooter he is. A former player told me he shoots like he is still under 6 feet tall. I don't really know what that means but it kind of makes sense. It's also completely in his head at this point, he was airballing free throws. It's clear that he shoots much better, and by much better I mean it still doesn't go in but it's much closer, when he doesn't have time to think about it.
If he was just a bad shooter instead of a terrible shooter then he would be a lottery pick. He has a ton of tools to improve offensively and like I said, his non-shooting half-court offense did improve a lot already. He theoretically can score in multiple ways. And his defense is incredible and should quickly translate.
But he's dropped in mocks because it looks like his shot is unsalvageable. His combine shooting numbers were pretty sad for someone who apparently was prepping for a month ahead of time.
Anyways, probably way too long a write up for a potential second rounder who Boston probably won't even have a reasonable chance to draft, but I've been watching him for years now and he's a very interesting prospect.
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Post by GyIantosca on May 29, 2024 10:38:15 GMT -5
I looked at one mock they had a big falling to us. Last name Edey .
I just read another in the 2nd round we’re grabbing Bronny
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Post by rjp313jr on May 29, 2024 11:11:48 GMT -5
I looked at one mock they had a big falling to us. Last name Edey . I just read another in the 2nd round we’re grabbing Bronny Bronny supposedly only accepted workouts with the Suns and Lakers. If true, he can go F himself.
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Post by Don Caballero on May 29, 2024 11:26:55 GMT -5
This is a championship caliber team, we don’t need the circus of drafting Bronny.
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Post by soxfansince67 on May 29, 2024 12:15:28 GMT -5
I'd love McCain from Duke.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 29, 2024 12:38:06 GMT -5
I'd love McCain from Duke. He’s probably going closer to 10 than 20, but if he slides far enough, for sure. Filipowski falling is more likely.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 29, 2024 19:00:00 GMT -5
RJP I don't disagree, I'd like a big. I'm just not liking the talent that is likely there. Chomche is crazy raw, was horrible at Nike Hoop Summit. Upside sure, but that's years away. Oso Ighodaro really isn't a big, can't shoot and has no mid range game. I like him more, very good athlete, good D and good dribbling if he were really a big. Maybe if he bulks up. Just not the type of talent I want locked into a first round contract given this teams salary cap. He's more like a guy if you trade down.
We absolutely should trade up for Daron Holmes if we can, he's on such another level compared to those guys it's not even funny. The dribbling, driving, shooting and D. He has quick feet. Needed to add weight, looked his listed 220, showed up to combine at 236. Still has skinny legs though. At times he reminds me of Siakam, just not that athletic.
That's why I moved onto guys like Justin Edwards. I'm 50/50 on him, he tested poorly, but looks much better on tape. I'm struggling to understand what I see on tape versus his testing numbers. Every scouting report says athletic player, yet he tested below average. I have never seen below average athletes do windmill dunks before on the regular.
Adem Bona was likely the best athlete at center at the Combine. Good defender, much more power and NBA body on College tape than Holmes. His offense is nothing and UCLA couldn't even be bothered to teach him basic rebounding fundamentals. One guy said they basically just wanted him to play D on a veteran team and didn't even try to develop him beyond that. It shows big time. I like him, just hard to pound the table for him in the first round.
I'm not liking what I see, this doesn't look like a good draft unless some players fall to us. It's like the cutoff is somewhere around pick 20 to 25.
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,022
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Post by mobaz on May 29, 2024 20:57:52 GMT -5
Didn't follow the bottom of this draft very much. Justin Edwards has recruiting pedigree, which I always like. Jonathan Mogbo looked good in the highlights video Givony posted last week, though anyone can look great if you take their best 60 seconds of BBall.
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badfishnbc
Veteran
Doing you all a favor and leaving through the gate in right field since 2012.
Posts: 484
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Post by badfishnbc on May 30, 2024 9:19:49 GMT -5
Friendly reminder that Brad Stevens has never selected in the first round. I think this year is good money to maintain that trend.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 30, 2024 11:07:52 GMT -5
Didn't follow the bottom of this draft very much. Justin Edwards has recruiting pedigree, which I always like. Jonathan Mogbo looked good in the highlights video Givony posted last week, though anyone can look great if you take their best 60 seconds of BBall. Jonathan Mogbo looks like a better version of Oso Ighodaro, better in the post, better dribbling, more active, better rebounding, bigger wingspan. They both need to either get stronger, add weight or develop some shooting. Athletic players that can dribbling and pass, 3 point shots away from being high end 3 and D guys.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 30, 2024 11:26:07 GMT -5
Friendly reminder that Brad Stevens has never selected in the first round. I think this year is good money to maintain that trend. If he gets his way, but remember this is a lousy draft and teams may not want the guaranteed salary of a first rounder. I think he will likely want to trade out, but will be interesting to see if there is a trade partner for it.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 30, 2024 11:29:54 GMT -5
This draft is kinda crazy, multiple mocks have two old school centers who aren't athletic going high over athletic guys. I'm going to call that the Denver effect!
So like always I started out looking at good defensive players and two ways guys. Then I did a deep dive on the rest of the players. The best value might be scorers and shooters, the one thing this class has a ton of is shooting. A couple of those guys pulled out yesterday, but it's still loaded from end of the first into the 2nd. Which isn't a bad thing given the way the Celtics play.
I still like Justin Edwards though given his upside, shooting and D.
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Post by jmei on May 30, 2024 11:43:26 GMT -5
Friendly reminder that Brad Stevens has never selected in the first round. I think this year is good money to maintain that trend. If he gets his way, but remember this is a lousy draft and teams may not want the guaranteed salary of a first rounder. I think he will likely want to trade out, but will be interesting to see if there is a trade partner for it. The top of this draft is as bad as any in recent history, but once you get to the back of the first round, I’ve read that it’s got some decent depth.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on May 30, 2024 19:12:34 GMT -5
I kind of want to wait until after the Celtics get 4 more wins until thinking about the offseason, but draft wise, I just hope they take LeBron's kid and then sign LeBron to take Big Al's spot. Not exactly a 1 for 1 tradeoff based on position and not sure how that'd work, but would that be wild to see.
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,022
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Post by mobaz on May 30, 2024 20:16:04 GMT -5
I kind of want to wait until after the Celtics get 4 more wins until thinking about the offseason, but draft wise, I just hope they take LeBron's kid and then sign LeBron to take Big Al's spot. Not exactly a 1 for 1 tradeoff based on position and not sure how that'd work, but would that be wild to see. I feel like LeBron is playing too well still to be sixth man on a title team. He was really good this year.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 30, 2024 23:13:42 GMT -5
You could easily move say Holiday to the bench, that's not the issue. It's he's not playing for the veteran minimum salary we can offer. If that were true in this draft, Bronny is likely going in the lottery. I'm sorry but LeBron isn't walking through that door and it's likely a good thing. These Celtics are going to make history and build legacy without him.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on May 30, 2024 23:31:31 GMT -5
You could easily move say Holiday to the bench, that's not the issue. It's he's not playing for the veteran minimum salary we can offer. If that were true in this draft, Bronny is likely going in the lottery. I'm sorry but LeBron isn't walking through that door and it's likely a good thing. These Celtics are going to make history and build legacy without him. Everything I've read about his kid is that he shouldn't even be drafted. I see a mock that has him going 55th to the Clippers. DraftKings Sportsbook lists his draft position at 39.5. Lakers might take him though out of desperation to retain James, which would be a terrible move for that franchise. As I understand it teams are really only going to take him to get a year of LeBron. Which, for a 2nd rounder that's not the worst thing in the world. I know for Boston it would have to be a very team friendly deal, but I'd love to see him have to make that hard decision and put his money where his mouth is.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 31, 2024 8:11:09 GMT -5
You could easily move say Holiday to the bench, that's not the issue. It's he's not playing for the veteran minimum salary we can offer. If that were true in this draft, Bronny is likely going in the lottery. I'm sorry but LeBron isn't walking through that door and it's likely a good thing. These Celtics are going to make history and build legacy without him. Everything I've read about his kid is that he shouldn't even be drafted. I see a mock that has him going 55th to the Clippers. DraftKings Sportsbook lists his draft position at 39.5. Lakers might take him though out of desperation to retain James, which would be a terrible move for that franchise. As I understand it teams are really only going to take him to get a year of LeBron. Which, for a 2nd rounder that's not the worst thing in the world. I know for Boston it would have to be a very team friendly deal, but I'd love to see him have to make that hard decision and put his money where his mouth is. The Lakers NOT taking him in the second round would be a terrible move for the franchise. Taking him there is the smart move.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 31, 2024 8:14:10 GMT -5
You could easily move say Holiday to the bench, that's not the issue. It's he's not playing for the veteran minimum salary we can offer. If that were true in this draft, Bronny is likely going in the lottery. I'm sorry but LeBron isn't walking through that door and it's likely a good thing. These Celtics are going to make history and build legacy without him. LeBron is a legitimate billionaire, if playing with his son were important to him, he’d play for the vet minimum no problem. It’d be extra bonus if it were a loaded team like the Celtics where he may be able to win enough chips to pass Jordan. Now, I agree he’s not walking thru that door, but it’s not because of money.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 31, 2024 9:41:17 GMT -5
Quinten Post is my 2024 irrational prospect love. He’s a legit 7 feet and can move well. Only D1 player to shoot 50/40/80. Over 40% from three the last 2 years and he’s got some Porzingis type range as well. I don’t know why he’s not showing up as a second round pick on most mocks. Averaged almost 3 assists per game last year. With a steal and 1.7 blocks per game. Watch his highlights, this isn’t a rigid 7 footer. He also plays for the Netherlands national team. Yes, he’s already 24, but the way he can move laterally, pass the ball and stretch the floor, he feels like a perfect fit for this team.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on May 31, 2024 10:26:12 GMT -5
Everything I've read about his kid is that he shouldn't even be drafted. I see a mock that has him going 55th to the Clippers. DraftKings Sportsbook lists his draft position at 39.5. Lakers might take him though out of desperation to retain James, which would be a terrible move for that franchise. As I understand it teams are really only going to take him to get a year of LeBron. Which, for a 2nd rounder that's not the worst thing in the world. I know for Boston it would have to be a very team friendly deal, but I'd love to see him have to make that hard decision and put his money where his mouth is. The Lakers NOT taking him in the second round would be a terrible move for the franchise. Taking him there is the smart move. 2nd round no problem. I was seeing commentary about the Lakers using a 1st on him, which is a bad move.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 31, 2024 11:48:55 GMT -5
You could easily move say Holiday to the bench, that's not the issue. It's he's not playing for the veteran minimum salary we can offer. If that were true in this draft, Bronny is likely going in the lottery. I'm sorry but LeBron isn't walking through that door and it's likely a good thing. These Celtics are going to make history and build legacy without him. LeBron is a legitimate billionaire, if playing with his son were important to him, he’d play for the vet minimum no problem. It’d be extra bonus if it were a loaded team like the Celtics where he may be able to win enough chips to pass Jordan. Now, I agree he’s not walking thru that door, but it’s not because of money. My whole point was he's not signing with any team just because you draft his son and he's not signing anywhere for veteran minimum. Sure he can, he's not doing it.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 31, 2024 12:55:54 GMT -5
Quinten Post is my 2024 irrational prospect love. He’s a legit 7 feet and can move well. Only D1 player to shoot 50/40/80. Over 40% from three the last 2 years and he’s got some Porzingis type range as well. I don’t know why he’s not showing up as a second round pick on most mocks. Averaged almost 3 assists per game last year. With a steal and 1.7 blocks per game. Watch his highlights, this isn’t a rigid 7 footer. He also plays for the Netherlands national team. Yes, he’s already 24, but the way he can move laterally, pass the ball and stretch the floor, he feels like a perfect fit for this team. Worst max vertical at the combine is likely the reason, along with one of the worst standing still verticals. Way worst than Edey for example, like Edey his saving grace is that he doesn't have slow feet. Kinda the opposite of PJ Hall who has a great vertical, but crazy slow feet to the point he looks horrible. Also doesn't have the wingspan you'd want, shows up in his rebounding. That being said, I can see a bench role for him in the NBA. Shooting, dribbling and passing for a big who can move his feet decently and plays 100%. Would love hin as a undrafted free agent given he’s a BC guy, wouldn't complain about him as a late 2nd round pick. If you can pull a Grant Williams and NBA conditioning coaches can improve his athletic ability even better. Right now there's just no way he can play man switching D in playoffs. Limits his upside and you know GMs love younger upside guys.
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