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6/6-6/9 Red Sox @ White Sox Series Thread
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 8, 2024 22:40:56 GMT -5
I picked them for 75 wins but for different reasons than have played out. Theyve pitched much better than I thought but have been less potent on offense than I imagined. Theyll probably hang around .500 until the trade deadline, be about 4 or 5 games out of the 3rd wild card spot and then trade away veteran talent. Lesser talent on the roster and a letdown feeling on the team as the games become more meaningless than meaningful and I think they'll slip toward 75 wins. Or they get some guys back from injury and some of the young guys take a step forward and we contend for The WC and finish 84-88 wins. Why not Because theyll likely lose more guys to injury than they get back. Devers hasn't been 100%. Who knows when Casas returns and if he does how healthy he'll be? Theyll be fortunate to tread water by the end of July and if they do theyll likely be on the outside looking in, potentially dealing away Pivetta, Jansen, O'Neill, and Martin, assuming the latter two arent on the IL.
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Jun 8, 2024 23:28:32 GMT -5
Or they get some guys back from injury and some of the young guys take a step forward and we contend for The WC and finish 84-88 wins. Why not Because theyll likely lose more guys to injury than they get back. Devers hasn't been 100%. Who knows when Casas returns and if he does how healthy he'll be? Theyll be fortunate to tread water by the end of July and if they do theyll likely be on the outside looking in, potentially dealing away Pivetta, Jansen, O'Neill, and Martin, assuming the latter two arent on the IL. I mean if they continue to have terrible injury luck… then yeah we are screwed. If next week the Phillies and Yankees mop the floor with us (those series are gone be teeeeense) we can start looking at whatever we can get for the guys with expiring contracts. But we’re not there yet. Right now we’re 1.5 games out of the wild card in a mediocre American League, with the Twins are the only team ahead of us. Yoshida, Abreu, and Casas in theory are on the mend. I get that the last two seasons went off the rails after treading water for 4 months in a similar fashion, but I feel we like are jumping the gun here with calls to sell. A good doctor isn’t pronouncing the sick patient dead before even trying the treatments.
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Post by incandenza on Jun 8, 2024 23:43:58 GMT -5
Just getting caught up on this game and I am very disappointed at how few of you blamed the ump rather than Bello for costing them all 5 runs in the 5th inning. (Thanks to the couple of you who held the flame.) I literally threw my hands up in celebration that Bello had gotten out of the inning before the ump called it a ball, and then the ugly stuff happened.
And yeah, Bello was visibly frustrated for multiple good reasons, but also the rain came in for *just* that half inning and the ball was slick and his cleats were muddy and the ump jobbed him and this season is just cursed in every single way so what are you gonna do.
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keninten
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Post by keninten on Jun 9, 2024 0:43:53 GMT -5
Chris Martin - on the IL for anxiety, unclear when he’s coming back Tyler O’Neill - knee not fully functioning Kenley Jansen - according to a lot of folks, he is washed Nick Pivetta - … (okay he’s great, but do we HAVE to move him? 😁) They arguably had better quality to sell last year between JT, Duvall, Paxton pre-collapse, even Verdugo It's all true (and don't forget about the quality they squandered in '22) but at least they have 6 weeks or so to get guys right. As much as I love new Pivetta, you're not building around him. Why would he give this team, that has been quick to bump him to the bullpen, a hometown discount? The chance of re-signing him is just as good if you trade him as if you keep him, which is to say, "low." I really thought they were ready to turn a corner but losing two to this historically bad Southside team is a color guard of red flags. What is this based on? I don`t think you know Pivetta but maybe I`m wrong.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 9, 2024 0:54:49 GMT -5
Because theyll likely lose more guys to injury than they get back. Devers hasn't been 100%. Who knows when Casas returns and if he does how healthy he'll be? Theyll be fortunate to tread water by the end of July and if they do theyll likely be on the outside looking in, potentially dealing away Pivetta, Jansen, O'Neill, and Martin, assuming the latter two arent on the IL. I mean if they continue to have terrible injury luck… then yeah we are screwed. If next week the Phillies and Yankees mop the floor with us (those series are gone be teeeeense) we can start looking at whatever we can get for the guys with expiring contracts. But we’re not there yet. Right now we’re 1.5 games out of the wild card in a mediocre American League, with the Twins are the only team ahead of us. Yoshida, Abreu, and Casas in theory are on the mend. I get that the last two seasons went off the rails after treading water for 4 months in a similar fashion, but I feel we like are jumping the gun here with calls to sell. A good doctor isn’t pronouncing the sick patient dead before even trying the treatments. This just reminds me how much I truly hate WC3. I didn't even realize the Red Sox are 1.5 back. This team and the Twins, Red Sox, Tigers, Rays, Rangers and Astros don't deserve to be sniffing around a playoff spot.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Jun 9, 2024 2:00:10 GMT -5
Totally disagree. This team has been playing with backups at 1B, 2B, SS, RF, DH. More than half the daily lineup. Sometimes with backups to the backups. 4,5,6 rookies every game. LOLOL. This team deserves medals for being 1.5 out of a WC starting week 2 of June. Let’s not forget or ignore injuries to the rotation and pen and AAA as well. Am not expecting too much the coming week but stranger things have happened; like this week. Context matters.
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Jun 9, 2024 7:45:21 GMT -5
Right now we’re 1.5 games out of the wild card in a mediocre American League, with the Twins are the only team ahead of us. Yoshida, Abreu, and Casas in theory are on the mend. I get that the last two seasons went off the rails after treading water for 4 months in a similar fashion, but I feel we like are jumping the gun here with calls to sell. A good doctor isn’t pronouncing the sick patient dead before even trying the treatments. This just reminds me how much I truly hate WC3. I didn't even realize the Red Sox are 1.5 back. This team and the Twins, Red Sox, Tigers, Rays, Rangers and Astros don't deserve to be sniffing around a playoff spot. It really felt like the two wild card system had the perfect blend of incentivizing teams to win their division to avoid the play-in & and allowing opportunities for more teams to try to make it, while also creating a bar high enough where you had to really try to get a spot. Right now half the MLB is playing the game of Least Dumb Team to fall into that last playoff spot. A Red Sox team that makes the playoffs after having a seven minute half-assed off-season will seem to confirm the complaints from folks like Boras that the new playoff structure disincentivizes spending. (With that said, I’ll happily take the playoff spot!)
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 9, 2024 9:04:34 GMT -5
This just reminds me how much I truly hate WC3. I didn't even realize the Red Sox are 1.5 back. This team and the Twins, Red Sox, Tigers, Rays, Rangers and Astros don't deserve to be sniffing around a playoff spot. It really felt like the two wild card system had the perfect blend of incentivizing teams to win their division to avoid the play-in & and allowing opportunities for more teams to try to make it, while also creating a bar high enough where you had to really try to get a spot. Right now half the MLB is playing the game of Least Dumb Team to fall into that last playoff spot. A Red Sox team that makes the playoffs after having a seven minute half-assed off-season will seem to confirm the complaints from folks like Boras that the new playoff structure disincentivizes spending. (With that said, I’ll happily take the playoff spot!) Agreed. While I hate the principle of the wild card I do think it was at it's best the brief time they had the two wild card system in place. It truly did punish a team for not winning their division and createe that frantic elimination game. Let's face it. The most electric Fenway Park has been was that wild card play survival game against the Yankees in 2021. This new format is watered down and it'll get worse when they add 2 more teams to get to 32 teams and add a 4th wild card per league so that half the damn league makes the playoffs.
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Post by rhswanzey on Jun 9, 2024 9:42:55 GMT -5
Enmanuel Valdez’s top 5 similar batters per statcast:
2023 Julio Rodriguez (126 wRC+) 2023 Brandon Drury (114) 2023 Ryan O’Hearn (114) 2023 Ryan Mountcastle (118) 2023 Gunnar Henderson (123)
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jun 9, 2024 10:04:47 GMT -5
Wow this lineup and pitching situation is atrocious lol. Cant believe they’re about drop 3/4 to the White Sox
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Jun 9, 2024 10:10:50 GMT -5
Duran LF Valdez 2B Refsnyder RF Dom Smith 1B Wong DH Hamilton SS Dalbec 3B McGuire C Rafaela CF
Zach Kelley starting in a bullpen game
That’s some weird sh*t
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Post by incandenza on Jun 9, 2024 10:12:04 GMT -5
Wow this lineup and pitching situation is atrocious lol. Cant believe they’re about drop 3/4 to the White Sox Even without Devers, Casas, O'Neill, Yoshida, Story, Grissom, and Abreu, I think they stiil have a better lineup than the White Sox. I'd take our bullpen over Chris Flexen too.
Shout out to having the entire starting infield injured once again, by the way.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jun 9, 2024 10:20:37 GMT -5
Wow this lineup and pitching situation is atrocious lol. Cant believe they’re about drop 3/4 to the White Sox Even without Devers, Casas, O'Neill, Yoshida, Story, Grissom, and Abreu, I think they stiil have a better lineup than the White Sox. I'd take our bullpen over Chris Flexen too. Shout out to having the entire starting infield injured once again, by the way.
Don’t reverse jinx the reverse jinx
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Post by Addam603 on Jun 9, 2024 10:34:44 GMT -5
If you told me that was the AAA lineup, I would absolutely believe you. That being said, a win today would get the Sox back to .500 and keep them impressively mediocre so this team is going to drop double digits today.
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Post by incandenza on Jun 9, 2024 10:36:42 GMT -5
The negative WAR position players bottomed out at -4.0 WAR. Now they're up to -3.2. Progress!
Rafaela is just fractionally below replacement level; he should have no trouble getting into positive territory as long as he's playing CF. I'm fairly confident about Valdez, too, who's up to -0.3.
Grissom at -0.9 in just 23 games is pretty remarkable. He's had bad luck in every conceivable way. When he's healthy again I hope he gets a nice long rehab assignment so he can hit the ground running when he gets back.
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Post by rhswanzey on Jun 9, 2024 10:39:52 GMT -5
Shane Drohan DFA’d
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Jun 9, 2024 11:16:04 GMT -5
I believe they need to be heavy sellers at the deadline. I also believe that if they keep this team as presently constructed, they'll finish 81-81. Better than what I thought in spring training, but not really seeing much that would long term move the needle. They need more prospects. Pivetta continuing to do well would yield a haul, not to mention that there is nothing that says that Boston cannot sign him in the offseason.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Jun 9, 2024 11:43:09 GMT -5
I believe they need to be heavy sellers at the deadline. I also believe that if they keep this team as presently constructed, they'll finish 81-81. Better than what I thought in spring training, but not really seeing much that would long term move the needle. They need more prospects. Pivetta continuing to do well would yield a haul, not to mention that there is nothing that says that Boston cannot sign him in the offseason. I could honestly see a blend of selling and buying at the deadline. I really think it makes a lot of sense to trade for Crochet and/or Robert Jr. if they can be had without one of the big 3. Trading Pivetta, Kenley and O’Neill should make up for whatever is sent to the White Sox in such a scenario.
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Post by pappyman99 on Jun 9, 2024 11:45:42 GMT -5
Crochet probably costing at least Bello, Perales, and Yorke if you don’t want to trade any of the big 3
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Jun 9, 2024 11:53:50 GMT -5
Crochet probably costing at least Bello, Perales, and Yorke if you don’t want to trade any of the big 3 I’m fine with Perales and Yorke going. Crochet is a stud and has 3.5 years of control.
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Post by incandenza on Jun 9, 2024 11:58:41 GMT -5
I believe they need to be heavy sellers at the deadline. I also believe that if they keep this team as presently constructed, they'll finish 81-81. Better than what I thought in spring training, but not really seeing much that would long term move the needle. They need more prospects. Pivetta continuing to do well would yield a haul, not to mention that there is nothing that says that Boston cannot sign him in the offseason. I could honestly see a blend of selling and buying at the deadline. I really think it makes a lot of sense to trade for Crochet and/or Robert Jr. if they can be had without one of the big 3. Trading Pivetta, Kenley and O’Neill should make up for whatever is sent to the White Sox in such a scenario. It's hard to imagine the Red Sox winning a bidding war for Robert or Crochet against teams that would be paying for them to help this year as well as in the future.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Jun 9, 2024 12:05:52 GMT -5
I could honestly see a blend of selling and buying at the deadline. I really think it makes a lot of sense to trade for Crochet and/or Robert Jr. if they can be had without one of the big 3. Trading Pivetta, Kenley and O’Neill should make up for whatever is sent to the White Sox in such a scenario. It's hard to imagine the Red Sox winning a bidding war for Robert or Crochet against teams that would be paying for them to help this year as well as in the future. Absolutely, but one can dream
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Jun 9, 2024 12:36:13 GMT -5
I believe they need to be heavy sellers at the deadline. I also believe that if they keep this team as presently constructed, they'll finish 81-81. Better than what I thought in spring training, but not really seeing much that would long term move the needle. They need more prospects. Pivetta continuing to do well would yield a haul, not to mention that there is nothing that says that Boston cannot sign him in the offseason. I could honestly see a blend of selling and buying at the deadline. I really think it makes a lot of sense to trade for Crochet and/or Robert Jr. if they can be had without one of the big 3. Trading Pivetta, Kenley and O’Neill should make up for whatever is sent to the White Sox in such a scenario. Probably pass on Robert. You're buying into a 3-4 year window then he's gone, same with Crochet. Not to mention, the prospect package. Sox are terrible at keeping their own free agents. I'd pass unless they're willing to commit to having a decent product on the field. As for buying and selling, it really has hurt this team the last two years, lets not go for a third.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 9, 2024 12:51:00 GMT -5
I could honestly see a blend of selling and buying at the deadline. I really think it makes a lot of sense to trade for Crochet and/or Robert Jr. if they can be had without one of the big 3. Trading Pivetta, Kenley and O’Neill should make up for whatever is sent to the White Sox in such a scenario. Probably pass on Robert. You're buying into a 3-4 year window then he's gone, same with Crochet. Not to mention, the prospect package. Sox are terrible at keeping their own free agents. I'd pass unless they're willing to commit to having a decent product on the field. As for buying and selling, it really has hurt this team the last two years, lets not go for a third. I was thinking Luis Robert in a deal for Rafaela works if Bleis is ready to take over when Robert leaves as a free agent. I'm not sure how that timeline works or even if Bleis develops as hoped for so this is not an endorsement of a deal of Rafaela plus deal for Robert but rather more of a thought exercise.
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Post by incandenza on Jun 9, 2024 13:11:25 GMT -5
I could honestly see a blend of selling and buying at the deadline. I really think it makes a lot of sense to trade for Crochet and/or Robert Jr. if they can be had without one of the big 3. Trading Pivetta, Kenley and O’Neill should make up for whatever is sent to the White Sox in such a scenario. Probably pass on Robert. You're buying into a 3-4 year window then he's gone, same with Crochet. Not to mention, the prospect package. Sox are terrible at keeping their own free agents. I'd pass unless they're willing to commit to having a decent product on the field. As for buying and selling, it really has hurt this team the last two years, lets not go for a third. So many folks still stewing over the trade deadline that got them McGuire, Valdez, and Abreu because the team didn't also give up on the 2022 season in the process.
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