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6/11-6/13 Red Sox vs. Phillies Series Thread
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jun 10, 2024 15:10:01 GMT -5
6/11 Red Sox (RHP Kutter Crawford, 2-5, 3.51, 74.1 IP, 71K:24BB) vs. Phillies (RHP Zack Wheeler, 7-3, 2.23, 80.2 IP, 91K:26BB) 7:10 pm ET, NESN/WEEI 6/12 Red Sox (RHP Nick Pivetta, 3-4, 3.40, 42.1 IP, 51K:9BB) vs. Phillies (TBD) 7:10 pm ET, NESN/WEEI 6/13 Red Sox (RHP Tanner Houck, 6-5, 1.91, 85.0 IP, 84K:15BB) vs. Phillies (TBD) 7:10 pm ET, NESN/WEEI MLB StandingsRed Sox Hitting StatsRed Sox Pitching StatsMLB ScoreboardMLB TransactionsA note regarding moderating of the gameday threads in 2024: As the disclaimer has always said, in the past, we have been very liberal in moderating the Gameday threads. They're meant to be a lot less formal than other threads on the forum, so to moderate them the same way would be silly. However, we do ask posters to maintain a certain level of decorum in these threads, and we plan on moderating the Gameday threads a little more actively this season. In particular, we ask that posters refrain from being overly repetitive with their posts (if you've made your point, let it go), refrain from monopolizing the discussion (if you are making more than a couple posts in a row, you probably need to slow down a little bit), and of course, follow the Ground Rules ( link). The point is to make these threads worth participating in and fun for all posters, from our long-time fixtures to people just signing up today. -The Management
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Post by incandenza on Jun 10, 2024 15:43:57 GMT -5
Playing the best team in the league is great because if you win even one game in the series you feel fine about it. And realistically a sweep is unlikely, and in a six-game stretch against even the best teams a split is probably the most probable outcome (also true if you're playing the worst teams in the league).
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Post by threeifbaerga on Jun 10, 2024 17:05:29 GMT -5
Playing the best team in the league is great because if you win even one game in the series you feel fine about it. And realistically a sweep is unlikely, and in a six-game stretch against even the best teams a split is probably the most probable outcome (also true if you're playing the worst teams in the league). .500 giveth and .500 taketh away, in equal measure. |
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Jun 10, 2024 17:17:44 GMT -5
Playing the best team in the league is great because if you win even one game in the series you feel fine about it. And realistically a sweep is unlikely, and in a six-game stretch against even the best teams a split is probably the most probable outcome (also true if you're playing the worst teams in the league). .500 giveth and .500 taketh away, in equal measure. .500 is great considering who the Red Sox have on the DL….! The silver lining is that players like David Hamilton get an extended chance to show what they can do, while the DL guys recuperate. |
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Post by rhswanzey on Jun 10, 2024 17:52:25 GMT -5
I don’t really mind the argument against selling during this summer, that we’re only X games out of the last wild card spot. This may be true, but it sure feels like this club should be four or five games out of a playoff spot already: not terrible, respectable enough, but firmly behind the top tier teams in the league. Since they aren’t already four or five games out, I don’t think either side of the argument for what to do is objectively wrong.
We’re going to see a sub .500 playoff team before long.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 10, 2024 17:55:12 GMT -5
I don’t really mind the argument against selling during this summer, that we’re only X games out of the last wild card spot. This may be true, but it sure feels like this club should be four or five games out of a playoff spot already: not terrible, respectable enough, but firmly behind the top tier teams in the league. Since they aren’t already four or five games out, I don’t think either side of the argument for what to do is objectively wrong. We’re going to see a sub .500 playoff team before long. They've managed to stay .500 without at least their 2nd best hitter and some might say their best hitter in Casas and without one of their best 5 or 6 hitters in yoshida. Both might be back sooner than later. The pitching has been good. The reason for optimism is there. |
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Post by ephus on Jun 10, 2024 18:00:50 GMT -5
2024 WAR
Hunter Renfroe -0.2
David Hamilton 1.2
We won the trade! lol
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Jun 10, 2024 18:03:22 GMT -5
I don’t really mind the argument against selling during this summer, that we’re only X games out of the last wild card spot. This may be true, but it sure feels like this club should be four or five games out of a playoff spot already: not terrible, respectable enough, but firmly behind the top tier teams in the league. Since they aren’t already four or five games out, I don’t think either side of the argument for what to do is objectively wrong. We’re going to see a sub .500 playoff team before long. They've managed to stay .500 without at least their 2nd best hitter and some might say their best hitter in Casas and without one of their best 5 or 6 hitters in yoshida. Both might be back sooner than later. The pitching has been good. The reason for optimism is there. I can see selling on Jansen, O’Neill, and Martin, and at the same time buying on players who fit positions of need long term and have controllability. (IMO, I would like to see Pivetta extended.) |
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jun 10, 2024 18:27:12 GMT -5
They've managed to stay .500 without at least their 2nd best hitter and some might say their best hitter in Casas and without one of their best 5 or 6 hitters in yoshida. Both might be back sooner than later. The pitching has been good. The reason for optimism is there. I can see selling on Jansen, O’Neill, and Martin, and at the same time buying on players who fit positions of need long term and have controllability. That would be SP prospects. Same as always in short supply Boston land farm system. Shocked the team didn't make a move with either Kelly/Booser sent down, Mayber kelly attempted to pass thru in order to get a fresh arm in the Pen outside of Anderson. Once again? Cora/FO lives dangerous in all the wrong ways. |
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Post by scottysmalls on Jun 10, 2024 20:05:27 GMT -5
2024 WAR Hunter Renfroe -0.2 David Hamilton 1.2 We won the trade! lol Honestly if David Hamilton is a decent player they won the trade on paper by a mile (as they did with basically every trade Bloom made). Though the issue with that move wasn't really the prospects it was and still remains that Jackie Bradley Jr. as starting outfielder was a bad plan. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jun 10, 2024 20:38:24 GMT -5
2024 WAR Hunter Renfroe -0.2 David Hamilton 1.2 We won the trade! lol Honestly if David Hamilton is a decent player they won the trade on paper by a mile (as they did with basically every trade Bloom made). Though the issue with that move wasn't really the prospects it was and still remains that Jackie Bradley Jr. as starting outfielder was a bad plan. That was Bloom’s John Lackey trade. It killed him. |
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asm18
Veteran
Posts: 1,227
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Post by asm18 on Jun 10, 2024 20:50:58 GMT -5
2024 WAR Hunter Renfroe -0.2 David Hamilton 1.2 We won the trade! lol Honestly if David Hamilton is a decent player they won the trade on paper by a mile (as they did with basically every trade Bloom made). Though the issue with that move wasn't really the prospects it was and still remains that Jackie Bradley Jr. as starting outfielder was a bad plan. The funny thing in hindsight is that the right-handed competent to JBJ we all wanted that off-season they ended up having the whole time in Rob Refsnyder! They just didn’t call him up at first because they opted to go with only 3 bench players so they could carry an extra pitcher until late June with MLB mandated 13 pitchers. The Phillies lineup right now is actually kinda weird. Trea Turner and Brandon Marsh had been playing great but are both hurt, Schwarber and Castellanos are both slugging under .400, and Alec Bohm along with Edmundo Sosa have been two of their best hitters after being merely average the last few years. (And of course, there is Bryce.) |
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Post by taiwansox on Jun 10, 2024 22:58:59 GMT -5
2024 WAR Hunter Renfroe -0.2 David Hamilton 1.2 We won the trade! lol Honestly if David Hamilton is a decent player they won the trade on paper by a mile (as they did with basically every trade Bloom made). Though the issue with that move wasn't really the prospects it was and still remains that Jackie Bradley Jr. as starting outfielder was a bad plan. You could also argue the bigger issue was taking on JBJ’s salary to acquire Hamilton/Binelas. That screwed us hard when Eovaldi and Bogaerts left for draft picks and we only got 4th rounders |
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Jun 11, 2024 2:40:22 GMT -5
Honestly if David Hamilton is a decent player they won the trade on paper by a mile (as they did with basically every trade Bloom made). Though the issue with that move wasn't really the prospects it was and still remains that Jackie Bradley Jr. as starting outfielder was a bad plan. The funny thing in hindsight is that the right-handed competent to JBJ we all wanted that off-season they ended up having the whole time in Rob Refsnyder! They just didn’t call him up at first because they opted to go with only 3 bench players so they could carry an extra pitcher until late June with MLB mandated 13 pitchers. The Phillies lineup right now is actually kinda weird. Trea Turner and Brandon Marsh had been playing great but are both hurt, Schwarber and Castellanos are both slugging under .400, and Alec Bohm along with Edmundo Sosa have been two of their best hitters after being merely average the last few years. (And of course, there is Bryce.) It’s their SP that has been far and away the most dominant force. I mean, I expected their rotation to be good this year, but not nearly at this elite level. |
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Post by bojacksoxfan on Jun 11, 2024 6:22:25 GMT -5
6/12 Red Sox (RHP Nick Pivetta, 3-4, 3.40, 42.1 IP, 51K:9BB) vs. Phillies (TBD) 7:10 pm ET, NESN/WEEI 6/13 Red Sox (RHP Tanner Houck, 6-5, 1.91, 85.0 IP, 84K:15BB) vs. Phillies (TBD) 7:10 pm ET, NESN/WEEI According to the Philly Inquirer it's going to be Cristopher Sanchez on Wednesday and Aaron Nola on Thursday. Sox miss Saurez, but a very tough set of opponent starters. Some local worry that the Philles will have some travel hangover, but also a hope that Dombrowski and the head trainer who had the experience going to London with the Sox in 2019 will help. The Phillies gave Wheeler and Nola the option not to go to London, but both did. Wheeler in particular is known for much preferring a standard 4 days of rest and hating longer layoffs like this one. Sox may get lucky with the Phillies starters showing some rust. Or unlucky because they are well rested. Who knows. Baseball. |
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Post by bojacksoxfan on Jun 11, 2024 6:23:53 GMT -5
2024 WAR Hunter Renfroe -0.2 David Hamilton 1.2 We won the trade! lol 2024 Financial Return on Investment Babe Ruth - dead No No Nanette - maybe licensed to play somewhere Won that one too! |
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Post by James Dunne on Jun 11, 2024 8:25:07 GMT -5
I don't want to reduce their values to WAR, but neither Fangraphs nor B-Ref show Hunter Renfroe's post-Red Sox value as measuring up to Babe Ruth's.
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Post by itinerantherb on Jun 11, 2024 8:53:17 GMT -5
This was a fun read from The Athletic: www.nytimes.com/athletic/5529966/2024/06/10/mlb-player-poll-overrated-underrated-worst-organization/ "MLB Player Poll 2024: Worst organizations, the most overrated peer, best vibes guy and more" Of particular interest/relevance: Q: Going solely on vibes, who do you most want on your team? A: Betts leads all players with 12.6% (twice as much as anyone else) Q: Which team would you sign with if contracts, state taxes and rosters were not a factor? A: At 9.3%, the Sox are second (to the Braves) and right ahead of the Dodgers and Rangers. (Perhaps relevant to the "we have to pay a premium for top free agents to come here" position.) Q: What organizations have bad reputations among players? (Multiple answers allowed) A: Oakland in a landslide. Only one of 79 respondents named the Sox. (Ditto above.) Q: Have analytics helped your career, hurt your career, or made no difference to your career? A: 76% say helped; 10.8% no difference; 8.6% both helped and hurt; 3.2% hurt. |
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Post by scottysmalls on Jun 11, 2024 9:13:40 GMT -5
This was a fun read from The Athletic: www.nytimes.com/athletic/5529966/2024/06/10/mlb-player-poll-overrated-underrated-worst-organization/ "MLB Player Poll 2024: Worst organizations, the most overrated peer, best vibes guy and more" Of particular interest/relevance: Q: Going solely on vibes, who do you most want on your team? A: Betts leads all players with 12.6% (twice as much as anyone else) Q: Which team would you sign with if contracts, state taxes and rosters were not a factor? A: At 9.3%, the Sox are second (to the Braves) and right ahead of the Dodgers and Rangers. (Perhaps relevant to the "we have to pay a premium for top free agents to come here" position.) Q: What organizations have bad reputations among players? (Multiple answers allowed) A: Oakland in a landslide. Only one of 79 respondents named the Sox. (Ditto above.) Q: Have analytics helped your career, hurt your career, or made no difference to your career? A: 76% say helped; 10.8% no difference; 8.6% both helped and hurt; 3.2% hurt. Not to read too much into these polls, but the Red Sox being second in the "which team would you sign with" question is really surprising to me. Since it's clearly not based on recent success I wonder what's driving that. Lots of possibilities obviously. |
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Post by incandenza on Jun 11, 2024 9:33:21 GMT -5
This was a fun read from The Athletic: www.nytimes.com/athletic/5529966/2024/06/10/mlb-player-poll-overrated-underrated-worst-organization/ "MLB Player Poll 2024: Worst organizations, the most overrated peer, best vibes guy and more" Of particular interest/relevance: Q: Going solely on vibes, who do you most want on your team? A: Betts leads all players with 12.6% (twice as much as anyone else) Q: Which team would you sign with if contracts, state taxes and rosters were not a factor? A: At 9.3%, the Sox are second (to the Braves) and right ahead of the Dodgers and Rangers. (Perhaps relevant to the "we have to pay a premium for top free agents to come here" position.) Q: What organizations have bad reputations among players? (Multiple answers allowed) A: Oakland in a landslide. Only one of 79 respondents named the Sox. (Ditto above.) Q: Have analytics helped your career, hurt your career, or made no difference to your career? A: 76% say helped; 10.8% no difference; 8.6% both helped and hurt; 3.2% hurt. Not to read too much into these polls, but the Red Sox being second in the "which team would you sign with" question is really surprising to me. Since it's clearly not based on recent success I wonder what's driving that. Lots of possibilities obviously. They had a couple quotes on it:
I also enjoyed this on what organizations have bad reputations among the players:
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Post by scottysmalls on Jun 11, 2024 9:36:09 GMT -5
Not to read too much into these polls, but the Red Sox being second in the "which team would you sign with" question is really surprising to me. Since it's clearly not based on recent success I wonder what's driving that. Lots of possibilities obviously. They had a couple quotes on it:
I also enjoyed this on what organizations have bad reputations among the players: Yeah history/legacy/Fenway makes sense. |
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Post by bojacksoxfan on Jun 11, 2024 9:47:53 GMT -5
Just goes to show that Sam Kennedy really knows what he's doing. The Fenway Experience - not just for fleecing paying customers, players like it too!
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Post by costpet on Jun 11, 2024 11:09:47 GMT -5
Playing in the same park as all the greats has an appeal.
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asm18
Veteran
Posts: 1,227
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Post by asm18 on Jun 11, 2024 12:36:01 GMT -5
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Post by manfred on Jun 11, 2024 12:37:30 GMT -5
Park, dedicated fan base, major market. It doesn’t seem crazy to me.
Love the love for Mookie. How many votes did Verdugo get?
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