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Red Sox Select Payton Tolle, LHP, TCU (2024)
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jul 14, 2024 21:34:17 GMT -5
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orion09
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Member is Online
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Post by orion09 on Jul 14, 2024 21:41:29 GMT -5
They say fastball shape is the hardest thing to teach, sounds like he has great fastball projection. If they think they can add velocity, get him throwing down the middle of the plate, and design a few nice offspeed pitches, maybe there’s something interesting there.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jul 14, 2024 21:51:22 GMT -5
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Post by tjb21 on Jul 14, 2024 21:53:56 GMT -5
Early guess on where he slots in the system: 20
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 14, 2024 22:18:37 GMT -5
Enough here to make him intriguing, and will never fault the team for going college over high school when it comes to pitcher selections. Very curious to see Breslow/Willards plan for him whenever he ends up in the system
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 14, 2024 22:19:56 GMT -5
Can’t teach length
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Post by dirtdog on Jul 14, 2024 22:25:11 GMT -5
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Post by RedSoxStats on Jul 14, 2024 22:27:58 GMT -5
His fastball has very little in common with Tanner Scott's, so I don't get that.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jul 14, 2024 22:28:02 GMT -5
I'm admittedly not a huge Tolle guy (actually visited A&M and I wanted him as a hitter prior to Braden Montgomery's commitment), but I will trust the pitching dev staff to make something work with a guy who has an existing high-level trait. I'd have preferred Ryan Johnson or Drew Beam by a pretty strong margin, though.
Probably not going to be an overslot guy, at least. Tracking towards being able to have four seven figure bonuses.
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 14, 2024 22:45:29 GMT -5
Looks like he's already got three real pitches
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Post by dirtdog on Jul 14, 2024 22:50:15 GMT -5
I'm gonna trust the scouts on this one. Does he have some tools? Yep. Does he have stuff to work on? Yep. Increase the velocity and decrease the walks. The fact that he was possibly drafted a round early doesn't bother me since there is no bigger crap shoot than the MLB draft.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jul 14, 2024 22:55:30 GMT -5
I'm gonna trust the scouts on this one. Does he have some tools? Yep. Does he have stuff to work on? Yep. Increase the velocity and decrease the walks. The fact that he was possibly drafted a round early doesn't bother me since there is no bigger crap shoot than the MLB draft. Plus the mlb draft doesn’t function like any other draft- they could be saving some money here to use later
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 14, 2024 22:59:57 GMT -5
Pablo Sandoval got a hit for us on the day we last drafted a pitcher rated higher than Tolle (excluding those with armed forces commitments)
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Post by bosoxnation on Jul 15, 2024 0:56:02 GMT -5
Pablo Sandoval got a hit for us on the day we last drafted a pitcher rated higher than Tolle (excluding those with armed forces commitments) Now that's some research
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Post by bosoxnation on Jul 15, 2024 0:58:41 GMT -5
He looks like he got the tools all he needs to learn when to pitch out of the zone and guess what. He's got a mid 90s fast ball and a sweeper. You'll fit right in here bud lol
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Post by bettsonmookie on Jul 15, 2024 1:13:03 GMT -5
Was saddened to learn that tragedy struck his family just two months ago. Wishing him well on what must be a bittersweet day.
“Payton Tolle, what a great dude. He’s shaped by his late mother Jina. Jina passed away in May after battling stage 4 colon cancer for seven years. Her original diagnosis gave her 90 days. She taught Payton so much but especially her motto, “Be a Tigger, not an Eeyore.” - @daniwex Danielle Wexler
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jul 15, 2024 1:20:54 GMT -5
Scary 1 that came to me after remembered who Tolle was is a guy many old hands here will remember.. Kendall Volz. The height, "length", velo, pitches. Man hope I'm totally just being pessimistic.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jul 15, 2024 4:03:24 GMT -5
Saw a picture of him throwing the ball. His arms look pretty muscular. Don't know whether that's good or bad for velocity but he looks pretty 'mature' physically. Not sure how many more FB 'ticks' are available. At 90-92 with the FB good IVB is a necessity...His control is a bit spotty too ..good amount of walks. It's surprising that he hasn't developed secondaries to any degree....Guess that's where Breslow feels improvements can be made. This guy sounds more like a serviceable type rather than a potential stud.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 15, 2024 7:52:00 GMT -5
Does anyone know how to translate extension into effective velocity? As in, Tolle’s extension makes a 92 mph feel like what speed from a guy with average extension?
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 15, 2024 7:54:53 GMT -5
But maybe a high upside guy is someone with some good physical traits, low hanging fruit to improve mechanically (I think they believe their edge on the league is in this area, and if so I would not expect them to ever talk about it), but not monster current velo. julyanmorley’s theory from the draft thread looks like it might fit pretty well for Tolle
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Post by hairps on Jul 15, 2024 7:55:23 GMT -5
RedSoxStats , I'm not on Twitter but: Effective Velocity = Velocity*(60.5-Avg(Extension))/(60.5-Extension) I haven't pulled the MLB average extension for a few years, but last time I did, it was 6.36 among pitchers who qualified. Hopefully that gives enough there for someone to kick the tires on Tolle's effective velocity (the velocity from the batter's perspective, rather than from a radar gun). Fun fact: The last time I sorted Savant data by Effective Velocity-Velocity, you saw a ton of BAL, TB and LAD prospects gathered near the top. Take from that what you will. Enjoy! EDIT: TB too.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 15, 2024 8:11:52 GMT -5
@redsoxstats, I'm not on Twitter but: Effective Velocity = Velocity*(60.5-Avg(Extension))/(60.5-Extension) I haven't pulled the MLB average extension for a few years, but last time I did, it was 6.36 among pitchers who qualified. Hopefully that gives enough there for someone to kick the tires on Tolle's effective velocity (the velocity from the batter's perspective, rather than from a radar gun). Fun fact: The last time I sorted Savant data by Effective Velocity-Velocity, you saw a ton of BAL and LAD prospects gathered near the top. Take from that what you will. Enjoy! Thanks! So the math here then is it makes a 92 mph fastball from Tolle like a 93.9 mph fastball from a pitcher with average extension. Here’s an FG article on the topic as well where they mention an average of 6.25: blogs.fangraphs.com/when-92-is-actually-95-bailey-falters-extension-adds-meaningful-velocity/
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Post by patford on Jul 15, 2024 8:39:12 GMT -5
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Post by bojacksoxfan on Jul 15, 2024 9:12:39 GMT -5
It looks like there should have been enough space in the tweet to include the other two names. I'm going to guess that they are excluded because they don't start with the letter "G".
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nomar
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Posts: 11,504
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Post by nomar on Jul 15, 2024 9:19:49 GMT -5
It looks like there should have been enough space in the tweet to include the other two names. I'm going to guess that they are excluded because they don't start with the letter "G". Jordan Romano and Alexis Diaz
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