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Red Sox trade Iglesias, Wendelken, Rondon & Montas for Peavy
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2013 10:19:47 GMT -5
I have always been very impressed with the creativity and desire to get a deal done. Once again the Red Sox management has probably made the biggest in-season deal of the year. This will be the fourth time in 11 years since the original team took over that they have done so.
The Red Sox didn't have a match for the White Sox so worked until they found a third team to get the prospect that Chicago wanted. Chicago got its 50-100 prospect for Peavy. I know they wanted Skaggs, A. Bradley, Tavarez, or Bogarts but that wasn't happening. Had they not traded Peavy and waited the price would have gone down even more.
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Post by dfwsox on Jul 31, 2013 10:28:06 GMT -5
Even in the Duquette era the Sox made deals but never in all the years have I seen our system so strong even with Theo . Back in the day Peavy deal would of pretty much would clean us. This deal didn't even touch our top 30. Iggy isn't a prospect anymore. I knew we had a good system but this blows my mind. Do you guys understand we could pretty much get anyone right now. Any guy you watch on the TV. You could never say that before. I am so happy right now. I consider Iggy a major leaguer now . Nice job the future is bright. Agree with this. Love that the farm system is strong especially with guys in the upper minors. I know we will trade some of these guys probably, I do hope they keep Xander, got high hope for him.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 31, 2013 10:29:55 GMT -5
When is Peavy slated to make his 1st start?
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Post by jmei on Jul 31, 2013 10:37:51 GMT -5
You may feel he has the tools to hit but that's no given. He may not be a throw away, but he's still got very limited appeal. At his best, there are only certain teams that can afford to carry his bat in the lineup. His D is great, but I wonder how his limited range will age, not that this is a concern at his age. Per this excellent WAR calculator, even if Iglesias only hits something like .240/.290/.330, he'll be worth 2 WAR over 600 PAs with his elite defense at SS. If he hits .250/.300/.350, he's worth 2.6 WAR. I know we always say that the offensive bar at SS is set real low, but here's what that really means: the league-average shortstop is hitting .253/.307/.365. Read that again. I've long been one of the Iglesias "haters" on this forum, but even I think he'll make enough contact to stick as a starting SS somewhere. Also, I'm not sure where the crack about his range comes from-- while he doesn't have elite raw speed, he has elite-level reaction speed and so his range is plus-to-better. That will probably age just fine. Also, someone asked earlier whether Iglesias had more trade value than Ranaudo. The answer is unambiguously yes. Iglesias has one year less of team control but has a much, much higher floor and not much lower of a ceiling. He's already a league-average player with the upside of being a 3-4 WAR player if he improves his plate discipline or grows into some power. Ranaudo had a good first half of the year but is six months removed from being a virtual non-prospect. He has decent stuff but still struggles with command and needs another secondary pitch. We are blessed to have the best shortstop prospect in the game ready to step into the major leagues, which makes losing Iglesias hurt a lot less. But we did lose something.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jul 31, 2013 10:50:16 GMT -5
Just went to read the ESPN comments and everyone seems to say Detroit won this trade. They love Iglesias. Wait until they see what we unleash at SS/3B in the future when Xander says hi! Nor is it hard to see why. Look closely at Garcia. Just how well does most forsee that power hitter's career 5/1 K/BB rate affecting his game once he plays at the MLB level for a few months? The Chisox went out and acquired yet another high k/low BB guy that is just like everyone else on that team and fits them well and makes one wonder why they didn't just ask for Middlebrooks instead, who at least would have filled a position they need long term without dragging another team into the mix. Detroit did win this deal (between Det/Chisox), at least getting a solid glove/possible no hit SS for Garcia out of this and the Chisox? I think Hahn got taken to the cleaners all the way around. He had better hope that Montas finds that elusive control that has confounded him, cause that is the only major plus that he got in the deal for Peavy.
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Post by godot on Jul 31, 2013 10:53:50 GMT -5
Did Sox make the trade out of weakness? Not knocking the trade by any means. It may have been necessary. Don't you believe they have concerns about Clay not making it back but also Dempster is dealing with a groin issue and Lackey is hitting the dog days ( one year after surgery? Seems they also feel that Workman best fit is the bull pen and perhaps spot starter.
Wonder who will be playing 3rd at the start of September. If they are bringing up Holt and using him with Snyder, doesn't really say much about Middlebrooks. Is he going to turn it around the next couple of weeks, really?
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Post by elguapo on Jul 31, 2013 10:54:41 GMT -5
He's toolsy and I'm not a believer. Maybe he'll eventually hit like Alex Rios. You could say the same for Iglesias, except exchange Alex Rios for Ozzie Smith That's an atrocious argument. If Iglesias hits like Ozzie he's a star. If Garcia hits like Rios he's....not as good as actual Alex Rios (ie without the fielding) last seen sporting a career 100 wRC+.
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 31, 2013 11:14:00 GMT -5
Ok, Omar Vizquel.
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Post by sibbysisti on Jul 31, 2013 11:21:19 GMT -5
When is Peavy slated to make his 1st start? Let's assume Peavy is already in Boston and has taken his physical. Lackey is scheduled for toninght. My guess is that he goes tomorrow in place of Dempster. Jake was supposed to start last night, so he's delayed by two days. It's Lester's turn after that against the Phoenix.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2013 11:25:55 GMT -5
Okay so the question becomes can he hit that. I think you are right that it comes down to the contact rates. Iglesias hits a lot of balls into the ground, isn't slow, and doesn't seem to pop up a lot so he's going to at least have a decent BABIP. At a 12% or so K rate the line above should be pretty easy for him to achieve. If it goes back up to 20%, then it becomes a lot harder.
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Post by elguapo on Jul 31, 2013 11:34:54 GMT -5
No backsies! And just because I don't think much of Garcia doesn't mean I don't know anything about him, so that bit of sneering was uncalled for. You can hardly watch a Tigers game without the announcers drawing oblique comparisons between Garcia & Cabrera. Look! Both are large and Venezuelan!
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Post by ray88h66 on Jul 31, 2013 12:00:36 GMT -5
As a big Iggy fan I'll miss him, but it looks like a good trade to me. Hope Iggy goes on and wins a bunch of gold gloves and has a long career.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 31, 2013 12:06:38 GMT -5
Also coming to the Sox in this trade are a likely 1st round comp pick in 2015 and whatever they get in a Dempster trade this winter. The more I think about it, the better this trade is.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Jul 31, 2013 12:25:44 GMT -5
All the Michael Young rumors make more sense now don't they. I really wish that were not the case. I don't think they should bring Bogaerts up until September but I wouldn't give up much at all for young but maybe they will not have to. The Yanks could maybe have an impact on that though. I guess going forward even Middlebrooks at 3rd right now was better than Iglesias but as a SS, Jose is potentially a difference maker on any team.
To me, this is a lot like the victor Martinez trade. We will regret losing Iglesias badly at some point just like we now wish we had all those years of control over Masterson. In the long run the biggest winner in this trade is Detroit, and it will not take them long at all to see those results.
It seems likely that Cherington had all these teams asking for one of our SS and opportunities were flying right and left for either Iglesias or Bogaerts. The focus was on that slot for weeks.
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Post by jbberlo22 on Jul 31, 2013 12:27:52 GMT -5
Wow love the trade but id just like to point out the white sox are crazy for wanting garcia. They have some thing for toolsy outfielders and it really isnt working out for them. They have: Courtney Hawkins Thrayce Thompson Brendan Jacobs Jared Mitchell Keeyn Walker
These guys are all power guys with no discipine and big strikeout problems and they are playing really poorly this season. Seems odd white sox would go after another one.
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Post by awall on Jul 31, 2013 12:30:56 GMT -5
2 errors for WM so far today. did he catch whatever Bard has?
9Ks in 4.1 so far for Webster
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Jul 31, 2013 12:34:06 GMT -5
If you look closely at Workman and Peavy ( other than their relative size and body types ), the comment Farrell made the other day that they are similar is insightful. They both absolutely pound the strike zone and need their off speed stuff a lot to be successful. I've been impressed with Workman's control so far. He's doing a great job keeping the ball in the park and I noticed he was throwing 92 in his last pitch yesterday also, which is not that bad. The guy looks like a starter to me. He is a moose.
They should give everyone in the rotation a chance to miss a start to get them healthy again and rejuvenate their stuff a little. Effectively immediately.
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Post by awall on Jul 31, 2013 12:38:54 GMT -5
If you look closely at Workman and Peavy ( other than their relative size and body types ), the comment Farrell made the other day that they are similar is insightful. They both absolutely pound the strike zone and need their off speed stuff a lot to be successful. I've been impressed with Workman's control so far. He's doing a great job keeping the ball in the park and I noticed he was throwing 92 in his last pitch yesterday also, which is not that bad. The guy looks like a starter to me. He is a moose.They should give everyone in the rotation a chance to miss a start to get them healthy again and rejuvenate their stuff a little. Effectively immediately. I agree, I love the drive he gets with the lower body. Also impressed with the number of balls he throws down the middle. Seems really good at throwing strikes on the corners with a FB that seems to have good life to it, which makes his velocity not as big a deal.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Jul 31, 2013 12:39:37 GMT -5
2 errors for WM so far today. did he catch whatever Bard has? 9Ks in 4.1 so far for Webster Middlebrooks has been rocked. They should be patient with him. He has been missing several opportunities this year and it must be eating him up. He's got to take a Cechinni pill and just forget about it. He's a stud. Cechinni said recently his biggest improvement factor was not worrying about everything so much and having more confidence. Just focus on working hard and improving. Middlebrooks has got to remember than he does still have the goods and most teams know it. He will get another chance and he will make it. You could state the same thing in regard to Webster IMO.
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Post by taftreign on Jul 31, 2013 12:50:31 GMT -5
When is Peavy slated to make his 1st start? Let's assume Peavy is already in Boston and has taken his physical. Lackey is scheduled for toninght. My guess is that he goes tomorrow in place of Dempster. Jake was supposed to start last night, so he's delayed by two days. It's Lester's turn after that against the Phoenix. Yes. With the way Workman has been going I'd personally agree with slating Peavy in for Dempster and moving Dempster to the pen for the time being leaving Workman to get a few more starts in the rotation. I want to see how he progresses for a few more weeks.
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Post by burythehammer on Jul 31, 2013 12:52:33 GMT -5
The Farrell comment was preemptive spin in case they couldn't land Peavy, not surprisingly it was filtered down to us by Peter Gammons. Brandon Workman and Jake Peavy are both RHP, that's probably where the comparison ends.
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Post by hammerhead on Jul 31, 2013 12:53:26 GMT -5
The biggest benefit of this trade isn't what Peavy will bring as value going forward (well some is).. The biggest value is that it proves to the 25 players who are in the dugout every night that this organization will do what it takes to win a championship. They already have a great clubhouse, but a clubhouse that is starting to hit the doldrums. They just needed a little spark , something to bring it all together. Ben C. goes and gets another extremely popular "bulldog" who will take one for the team so to speak. The mental effect of this trade can not be measured. They are entering a bit of a lull in the schedule meaning they are playing some out of division weaker teams, I expect this to help focus them.
I think a big winning streak could happen in the next 15 days.
calling up Xander could be even more of a catalyst now.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 31, 2013 12:53:37 GMT -5
I have to imagine that either Dempster goes on the DL to rest his groin and then comes back to the rotation or that Workman goes directly to the bp. Workman is probably getting close to his innings limit.
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Post by awall on Jul 31, 2013 12:58:14 GMT -5
if by RHP who tend to throw the FB up in the zone and avg 89-90 with a high of 92-93 and are most effective when they can throw the curve for strikes, yes that's a pretty good comparison.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jul 31, 2013 13:00:47 GMT -5
Let's assume Peavy is already in Boston and has taken his physical. Lackey is scheduled for toninght. My guess is that he goes tomorrow in place of Dempster. Jake was supposed to start last night, so he's delayed by two days. It's Lester's turn after that against the Phoenix. Yes. With the way Workman has been going I'd personally agree with slating Peavy in for Dempster and moving Dempster for the pen for the time being leaving Workman to get a few more starts in the rotation. I want to see how he progresses for a few more weeks. Been saying that since deal was announced, but it won't happen unless Dempster totally flops after a few more starts. Only 2 managers in all my years of Sox baseball following had the guts to sit under performing veterans over rookies and those were Dick Williams and Joe Morgan.
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