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Red Sox trade Iglesias, Wendelken, Rondon & Montas for Peavy
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Post by bjb406 on Jul 31, 2013 13:05:28 GMT -5
look at Peavy's numbers. His strike out rate is great, his WHIP is fantastic, the only thing out of place with his career numbers is his home run rate. Maybe some of that is because he isnt what he was, maybe not, but certainly at least some of it is because of variance. Honestly Peavy was the pitcher I was most interested in, more than either Lee or Garza, because he is younger than Lee and doesn't cost 25 million a year, and because Garza just isn't as good.
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Post by ikonos on Jul 31, 2013 13:06:52 GMT -5
Yes. With the way Workman has been going I'd personally agree with slating Peavy in for Dempster and moving Dempster for the pen for the time being leaving Workman to get a few more starts in the rotation. I want to see how he progresses for a few more weeks. Been saying that since deal was announced, but it won't happen unless Dempster totally flops after a few more starts. Only 2 managers in all my years of Sox baseball following had the guts to sit under performing veterans over rookies and those were Dick Williams and Joe Morgan. You mean like Ellsbury took over for Coco? Or does Pedey taking over 2B (though start of the season) count? Not sure if Pap took over for Foulke (its been few years now)
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Post by ikonos on Jul 31, 2013 13:09:51 GMT -5
look at Peavy's numbers. His strike out rate is great, his WHIP is fantastic, the only thing out of place with his career numbers is his home run rate. Maybe some of that is because he isnt what he was, maybe not, but certainly at least some of it is because of variance. Honestly Peavy was the pitcher I was most interested in, more than either Lee or Garza, because he is younger than Lee and doesn't cost 25 million a year, and because Garza just isn't as good. During a recent Sox game Schilling said if a pitcher doesn't walk much, the HR's he give up will just be solo shots and are unlikely to hurt much. Hopefully peavy gets amped up with pennant race and plays better.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Jul 31, 2013 13:18:44 GMT -5
Felger and Mazz ripping the deal currently. Said that Iggy could be the teams SS for the next 5-10 years for a terrible contract in Peavy. Apparently the trade from last year has made these guys forget what a terrible contract truly is. Boegarts was referred to as "yet another slugging SS that we don't need" and starting pitching wasn't a need. I missed Boston radio...
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Post by iakovos11 on Jul 31, 2013 13:20:05 GMT -5
So, you're saying they're clueless. We know that, right?
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 31, 2013 13:21:13 GMT -5
Felger and Mazz ripping the deal currently. Said that Iggy could be the teams SS for the next 5-10 years for a terrible contract in Peavy. Apparently the trade from last year has made these guys forget what a terrible contract truly is. Boegarts was referred to as "yet another slugging SS that we don't need" and starting pitching wasn't a need. I missed Boston radio... Hahahaha!
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jul 31, 2013 13:22:13 GMT -5
Felger and Mazz ripping the deal currently. Said that Iggy could be the teams SS for the next 5-10 years for a terrible contract in Peavy. Apparently the trade from last year has made these guys forget what a terrible contract truly is. Boegarts was referred to as "yet another slugging SS that we don't need" and starting pitching wasn't a need. I missed Boston radio... The best part was when they said that Peavy had the best, bb%, k rate "but look at his ERA"
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Post by kungfuizzy on Jul 31, 2013 13:26:14 GMT -5
Felger and Mazz ripping the deal currently. Said that Iggy could be the teams SS for the next 5-10 years for a terrible contract in Peavy. Apparently the trade from last year has made these guys forget what a terrible contract truly is. Boegarts was referred to as "yet another slugging SS that we don't need" and starting pitching wasn't a need. I missed Boston radio... The best part was when they said that Peavy had the best, bb%, k rate "but look at his ERA" If they were running the Mariners I would be hitting them up for King Felix daily. Look at the wins!!! Terrible pitcher Felger is a tad butthurt. The hurt is strong with this one. Wiggins saying that a career .240 or so hitter in the minors will be a .260-.270 hitter in the majors. In other news crack is being used in the United States by a staggering number of people.
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Post by homerdante on Jul 31, 2013 13:26:22 GMT -5
I see all the arguments for and against this trade, I guess the only question I still have left is whether the Red Sox needed another starter, but then I quickly talk myself into realizing that maybe the additional starter allows Workman to move into the bullpen, so it was really the bullpen arm we needed (or pitching flexibility via abundance, etc.), but in getting Peavy we're grabbing another first round pick a couple years out, "selling high" on Iggy, clearing the way for the uber-prospects, etc. I think in terms of GM skills Cherrington aced the shaping of this trade--not paying too high a price for something which was perceived to cost way too much, Cherrington wins the thrifty award for sure--I'm fully on board with that.
My only lingering question is whether we truly need Peavy or not, but not arguing with what it took to get him, or how brilliantly that was accomplished, or seller's remorse over Iggy, etc.
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Post by ikonos on Jul 31, 2013 13:34:46 GMT -5
If Buch is not coming back this year, Sox absolutely needed Peavy or like pitcher. If Buch comes back they have surplus and can plug the bullpen with Workman and allows them to trade a ML starter for OF or 1B help.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 31, 2013 14:06:22 GMT -5
No backsies! And just because I don't think much of Garcia doesn't mean I don't know anything about him, so that bit of sneering was uncalled for. You can hardly watch a Tigers game without the announcers drawing oblique comparisons between Garcia & Cabrera. Look! Both are large and Venezuelan! Well said. It's the sort of stuff that makes me laugh and cringe at the same time. If, somehow, Cabrera could have imbued Garcia with his tremendous plate discipline and even better pitch selection through osmosis, he'd still be in Detroit I believe. It wasn't going to happen. He may be one of those players who can become a very good hitter without those tools, but that's a harder sell than a player like Bogaerts who seems to have that stuff down, and at a very young age. Add: I was listening to MLB radio on XM headed back from an errand, and overall they thought the trade was good for all three teams. It really helps Detroit, of course, given the soon-to-be absence of Jhonny boy. But they were also very high on the Sox acquisition of Peavy, with a clear understanding of the minor league assets - they mentioned both Bogaerts and Cecchini - that could be brought into play on the left side of the infield to replace Iglesias. And one of the commentators, didn't catch which one, still really likes Middlebrooks and believes there's 25 HR potential from the guy. There were a few statements such as "Peavy's good... is he a #1, is he Garza? no but he was the best available..." which completely blow off a numerical comparison of the two. Do that and you see that not only is Garza not a #1 either, he's not even cost-controlled after this year. In fact, he looks like Peavy without the potential for the qualifying offer and the return-on-investment his acceptance or the draft pick entail. So he actually looks like a better gamble given that they've both got spotty injury histories. Disappointing to hear that the Boston radio-heads are so down on this. Not surprising, but disappointing.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2013 15:01:10 GMT -5
Okay so now that the radio guys have weighed in, enough with the analysis. When does Peavy pitch? Tomorrow?
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 31, 2013 15:04:22 GMT -5
Saturday is what I'm hearing.
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Post by ibsmith85 on Jul 31, 2013 15:10:34 GMT -5
Saturday is what I'm hearing. Was just handed the company seats for tomorrow nights game this morning. Was kind of getting excited thinking I would get to see Peavy vs. King Felix. But free tickets are free tickets, and good ones at that. Still holding out a shred of hope that Dempster gets pushed back. This will be my 3rd game of the season, and have seen Dempster in each of the first two games.
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Post by GyIantosca on Jul 31, 2013 15:10:56 GMT -5
Felger even said he rather deal WMB than Iggy. Even Mazz said he was on crack.
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Post by okin15 on Jul 31, 2013 15:22:01 GMT -5
Felger and Mazz ripping the deal currently. Said that Iggy could be the teams SS for the next 5-10 years for a terrible contract in Peavy. Apparently the trade from last year has made these guys forget what a terrible contract truly is. Boegarts was referred to as "yet another slugging SS that we don't need" and starting pitching wasn't a need. I missed Boston radio... It does seem like the curse of Nomar (new SS every year) is destined to continue due to this trade. I guess that's why we draft one every year too.
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Post by bluechip on Jul 31, 2013 15:25:48 GMT -5
Felger and Mazz ripping the deal currently. Said that Iggy could be the teams SS for the next 5-10 years for a terrible contract in Peavy. Apparently the trade from last year has made these guys forget what a terrible contract truly is. Boegarts was referred to as "yet another slugging SS that we don't need" and starting pitching wasn't a need. I missed Boston radio... Why would I listen to the opinion of a guy who does not watch the games...
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Post by hammerhead on Jul 31, 2013 15:41:06 GMT -5
Felger and Mazz ripping the deal currently. Said that Iggy could be the teams SS for the next 5-10 years for a terrible contract in Peavy. Apparently the trade from last year has made these guys forget what a terrible contract truly is. Boegarts was referred to as "yet another slugging SS that we don't need" and starting pitching wasn't a need. I missed Boston radio... Who the hell would want "ANOTHER" slugging SS, those freaking things grow on trees.
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Post by jcn92 on Jul 31, 2013 17:02:58 GMT -5
I was really looking forward to having a potential infield of Middlebrooks, Pedroia, Bogaerts, and Iglesias for the foreseeable future. But if Cherington felt like Iglesias did not have a role the team's future I'm glad we got a starter for him and won't have to force some of the younger guys who are almost ready to come up and start meaningful games. I'm just disappointed we gave up a guy who has the potential to be the best defensive short stop in the league.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jul 31, 2013 17:22:57 GMT -5
I was really looking forward to having a potential infield of Middlebrooks, Pedroia, Bogaerts, and Iglesias for the foreseeable future. But if Cherington felt like Iglesias did not have a role the team's future I'm glad we got a starter for him and won't have to force some of the younger guys who are almost ready to come up and start meaningful games. I'm just disappointed we gave up a guy who has the potential to be the best defensive short stop in the league. Then just put Cechhini in the mix and we are still ok. I hate to lose Iggy too and I love magical/elite fielding, (which is so rare and which we have so infrequently had) but would he have saved more runs than he failed to produce? We have something of a surplus and management felt we needed another 3-4 starter to cover for Buch not coming back this year. As with all trades...there is risk and time will tell.
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Post by jmei on Jul 31, 2013 17:41:45 GMT -5
in memoriam
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Post by dfwsox on Jul 31, 2013 18:53:34 GMT -5
Always enjoy looking at videos of his defense. You always have to give something up to get something and I think it was a good trade but hes always been a fav. Wish him the best.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Jul 31, 2013 19:14:23 GMT -5
Gotta say it. Conventional wisdom says that Peavy cost less than Garza. Is it that some people undervalued Iglesias or is it the salary commitment issues? Peavy's potential to involve a free pick is a big part of this yet he looks like it still cost less to get him. I think a lot of teams were just not in a position to pick up Peavy's salary and Iglesias is also percieved around the league as better than he is here. He would be considered a top 3-4 prospect for sure on most other teams.
You can do it Jose. Keep going for it!
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Post by dfwsox on Jul 31, 2013 19:20:22 GMT -5
Gotta say it. Conventional wisdom says that Peavy cost less than Garza. Is it that some people undervalued Iglesias or is it the salary commitment issues? Peavy's potential to involve a free pick is a big part of this yet he looks like it still cost less to get him. I think a lot of teams were just not in a position to pick up Peavy's salary and Iglesias is also percieved around the league as better than he is here. He would be considered a top 3-4 prospect for sure on most other teams. You can do it Jose. Keep going for it! I'm not a scout (im a construction superintendant and a sports fanatic) but this guys bat speed is close to plus I think, he has improved his pitch selection and is still a young guy. Hard to get rid of him, but I am pulling for the kid. Hope he does well, except against us. .haha.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 31, 2013 19:23:17 GMT -5
Detroit also found itself in a desperate situation and the Sox were in position to take advantage. Fortunately CHW valued Garcia highly because the Sox were willing to give up anyone in heir system at CHW felt was similar value. Think top 7/8 prospects. It only takes one team, Det, to value hat you are trading Iglesias. That's why it's impossible to say if team A traded this package then we could've gotten it one with these guys.
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