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2013 Offseason Red Sox thread
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 31, 2013 21:36:02 GMT -5
Please tell me "Zander" isn't going to become the next "Buckholtz" (and its relatives).
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Oct 31, 2013 21:55:13 GMT -5
One way or the other Salty is gone. And Drew as well I think. They need to marshall their resources for the opportunities which might maximize the success of next year's team. For example Ellsbury, McCann, Choo or Tanaka.
It may be that we are now in "win now" mode and we might even consider moving some of our prospects for more proven players which fill a specific need. For example a RH slugger, probably in the OF. I don't think Napoli was ideal lineup protection for Ortiz. They may prefer Napoli at 6th or 7th in the lineup.
It would seem to me that Choo might even be a better fit for us than Ellsbury. Maybe it goes Ortiz, Napoli, Choo in the lineup. Or of course Choo could lead off very well also. Choo would be a solid LF option, JBJ in CF and Victorino in RF. Nava/Gomes as 4th and 5th. Choo could play RF also and we slot Victorino in CF. We could move guys around to give everyone quite a bit of PT, factoring in that some of these guys could DH or play 1st also.
I'd think about extending both Lackey and Lester. We can use that mlb minimum year in Lackey's contract to some advantage in terms of luxury tax considerations going forward plus it would be a way to lock down a proven performer at a good time.
I'd go with Middlebrooks at 3rd and Bogaerts at SS. That is one heck of a linup potentially plus I think Cechinni might be crashing the party in time for the playoffs. I think they at least try to maximize their value with Middlebrooks next year. They hope he works out but if not they do have other options coming up the highway.
I'd stand pat in the pen. Keep Workman there. Why fix what isn't broken. He can be a huge help for them next year. I wouldn't be surprised to see Morales go.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Oct 31, 2013 21:57:25 GMT -5
Why would we be in a win now mode a year removed from thinking 2013 was a rebuilding year?
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Post by wcsoxfan on Oct 31, 2013 22:10:48 GMT -5
The big question I have:
Assuming Drew leaves, who becomes the backup for Xander & Middlebrooks? I think they need a stud backup here just in case.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Oct 31, 2013 22:12:04 GMT -5
There is no such thing as a "stud" back up.
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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 31, 2013 22:12:33 GMT -5
It may be that we are now in "win now" mode and we might even consider moving some of our prospects for more proven players which fill a specific need. Oh dude, you can't catch a break, can you? There isn't anything about this that ain't remarkably false.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Oct 31, 2013 22:30:09 GMT -5
Hello....we just won the world series didn't we. To me that is "win now". Do I really have to even respond to this issue also? I'm not saying we are going to go into "win now" mode but a strong case could be made that we should be in that mode for the next few years.
Tell me you guys are joking please!
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 31, 2013 22:33:42 GMT -5
I hate even thinking about the off-season - I'm not ready for it. I just want to bask in the afterglow of a season that was the most shocking season I've experienced in 34 seasons of watching this team, and I want to collect lots of souvenirs...
Anyways since the powers that be insist that the baseball needs to be played in 2014, I would assume Ellsbury is a goner and that Bradley will wind up in CF.
I think Napoli re-signs with the Sox for two more years. I think Drew is a goner and the left side becomes WMB at 3b and Xander at SS.
I think Salty comes back for three more years because the catching market is thin and Ross isn't a regular and it's awhile before Vazquez and Swihart are ready.
The rotation is pretty filled up as it is right now with six starters and I doubt they deal anybody. Nobody knows exactly how healthy Buchholz will be. I assume they start with the six starters, see who's healthy and they think to themselves that Webster, Barnes, and Ranaudo are even closer to being ready to help - not to mention Owens if he gets off to a strong start at Portland.
The bullpen is an obvious area for upgrade. I've heard that Hochevar is a target - given the Baird/KC connection, I can see that.
I don't see the Sox doing much in the way of impact, but rather I see them rebuilding the depth. They'll get somebody who can play semi-regularly at SS or 3b so they can stash Xander at Pawtucket for a month for service time reasons or temporarily replace WMB when he struggles. They'll get a veteran CF who can play if Bradley struggles and hit the bench if Bradley succeeds.
I think the Sox will transition to a younger team little by little.
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Post by elguapo on Oct 31, 2013 22:56:16 GMT -5
But Carp is a huge regression candidate who was lucky on balls in play and extra base hit rate in 2013, and his projections (Steamer: .263/.330/.446) His projections are likely understated since he was ineffective due to injury in '12. Of course he's in for regression but had a very nice .885 OPS this year and can afford to give up some luck and still be valuable. Napoli is a regression candidate as well, as you know.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Nov 1, 2013 6:06:01 GMT -5
amfox1 edit: post deleted. Made-up trade proposals go in the trade proposal forum.
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,826
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Post by steveofbradenton on Nov 1, 2013 7:06:27 GMT -5
This team will get younger.....and that's a good thing!
I love Ellsbury, but I don't see him coming back. He reminds me of the Fred Lynn situation. Both were very successful HERE and could have built a legacy HERE, but thought (think) it looks greener somewhere else. Eventually Jackie Bradley, in a different way, will be quite successful as our center fielder.
A lot of what will happen during the off-season is predicated on one Stephen Drew. A qualifying offer is a sure thing. If he doesn't accept (a sure thing), we will pick up a high draft choice. I'd like to see Drew come back on an over-pay 3 year deal, and solidify the infield's left side for awhile. That would give us the opportunity to develop Middlebrook's game some more OR to make him part of a big package. Xander will start next year. I'd prefer him at 3rd for 130 games and at short for 20 next season (to keep his skills fresh).
IF Drew turns-down the QO (a probable), a back-up shortstop is a necessity. Xander would play short, but we need someone who can actually play short well. The names are not sexy, but John McDonald, Brendan Ryan, or a Clint Barmes may fit that role until someone like Deven Marrero shows up.
My "dream" scenario is for Allen Webster to take one of the rotation spots and we include Jake Peavy in a package deal for a good young prospect. It is time to unblock the pipe line that is building up in Pawtucket. I'm elated, but at the same time slightly concerned that we have such a good rotation in AAA and we may be wrong about not promoting. One of these kids, not named Owens, may be part of this package (Peavy, Middlebrooks, etc.).
I have rooted for Salty for a long time and I thought a "light" came on this year with respect to his offensive game. His average and OBP were much improved. BUT he quickly reverted back to the old-Salty this post season, and let's face it.......his defense is not above average.........and his throwing skills are quite poor. This won't be popular here, but I would NOT give him a qualifying offer and would only offer him a 2 year deal for say $18 million. I would have no problem with him walking. He is a great guy and a super teammate, but we could use the dollars in other ways to our advantage. Ross showed, once again, that a solid defensive catcher is more valuable. My plan would be hoping Ross could catch 60 games next season and let Dan Butler have a chance to be the other catcher. I'm even fine with Lavarnway getting the opportunity. We have two young studs (Vazquez and Swihart) on the way. I do not want an average catcher (Salty) blocking them. The way Vazquez came on this year, we may see him be in Boston by mid season. Pass on Salty!
Offer Napoli the QO or a 2-year deal say for $26 - $28 million. I know.........I know no one wants to hear "bridge year", but with Xander, Bradley, Workman, and hopefully Webster and Vazquez getting major time next season, the 2015 team will be special. And for folks like us who drool over prospects, the team in 2015 could be a juggernaut.
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Post by bsout2 on Nov 1, 2013 7:51:28 GMT -5
All I want is for them to sign Napoli and Salty. Offer QO to the other guys and watch them walk.
Go out and sign Tanaka!
Buccholz must be treated as though he is not pitching for the Red Sox next year. If he is, that's a huge plus. But shoulder problems scare me.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Nov 1, 2013 8:26:36 GMT -5
There is a lot of negativity regarding Buchholz.
He is going to be fine. His injuries haven't been career threatening and i'm sure the staff will be working with him. Our rotation looks good for next season, bullpen could use some work though. We were very reliant on Taz, Breslow and Koji. It will be nice to have Miller back. It will be interesting to see what happens with bailey/hanrahan. Thornton likely gone.
I'd like to see Bogaerts at SS and Middlebrooks at 3rd. Wouldn't mind Salty or Nap or even Drew back on 1 year deals but I hope they take the draft pick(s) if they turn the QO down. I think Multi year deals for any of those guys are a bad idea.
Ellsbury is gone.
I could see Dempster or Peavy being traded.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,827
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Post by wcp3 on Nov 1, 2013 8:51:11 GMT -5
If you're still complaining about the moves Farrell made, then you should probably find another team to root for. I was as vocal as just about anyone regarding some of his moves, but look at the roster he just won 108 games with. The guy is very good at his job, end of story.
Anyway, as far as the offseason is concerned, I would be shocked if Ellsburys or Drew were resigned. I really like both guys, but I think they'll demand (and get) more years than the Red Sox will be willing to give them. While I'm not completely sold on JBJ (he has more holes in his swing than I was expecting, although nothing that isn't correctable), I think he could make up enough of what you'd lose with Ellsbury at a tiny fraction of the cost.
Napoli will be a fascinating one to watch. I wouldn't mind seeing more of a platoon with him and Carp, but I don't think that would realistically happen.
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Post by mjammz on Nov 1, 2013 9:35:12 GMT -5
With a loaded farm system and few 25 + 40 man roster spots, I really think the Red Sox off-season acquisitions are going to be made via trade. I think they will put together a package for younger SP a RP and a power bat.
I don't know if anyone caught it, but Nick Cafardo was on MLB Network last night talking about the Red Sox off-season plans. On the topic of Ellsbury and Shane Victorino in CF he said "I think Victorino could go to CF, but I really feel like this team is going to put a package or prospects together and go hard after Giancarlo Stanton."
Let the speculation begin. It would certainly fit the business model. A RP name I think makes alot of sense for this team is Luke Hochevar. The Red Sox and Royals match up nicely when you consider each teams needs and assets.
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Post by wskeleton76 on Nov 1, 2013 9:46:59 GMT -5
Last year Nick Cafardo strongly argued that we should get Hamilton. He just always wants something big.
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Post by amfox1 on Nov 1, 2013 9:47:24 GMT -5
I don't know if anyone caught it, but Nick Cafardo was on MLB Network last night talking about the Red Sox off-season plans. On the topic of Ellsbury and Shane Victorino in CF he said "I think Victorino could go to CF, but I really feel like this team is going to put a package or prospects together and go hard after Giancarlo Stanton." This is somewhat misleading. He noted that Ellsbury could be re-signed, Shane-O could be moved to CF, JBJ could start in CF or that they could make a run at Stanton. His focus wasn't on Stanton; it was more of a throwaway, in my opinion.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,827
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Post by wcp3 on Nov 1, 2013 9:49:15 GMT -5
I wouldn't pay much attention to anything Cafardo says.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Nov 1, 2013 10:10:04 GMT -5
Buchholz sure doesn't look healthy though. Doesn't he look like he has lost a lot of weight? When he first came up he looked thin but after a while he looked like he gained at least some weight and now he looks emaciated.
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Post by jmei on Nov 1, 2013 10:13:27 GMT -5
I moved all the (completely unnecessary and idiotic) Nava v. Gomes posts to the throwdown forum. Please keep this thread focused on future decisions and not past ones.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 1, 2013 10:24:22 GMT -5
If you're still complaining about the moves Farrell made, then you should probably find another team to root for. I was as vocal as just about anyone regarding some of his moves, but look at the roster he just won 108 games with. The guy is very good at his job, end of story.I mean, he's better at his job than Mike Matheny, and someone has to win these games. How good is he really? I don't know and I'm kind of sick of arguing about it. Baseball will probably never really improve the quality of it's managers very much because the nature of the game is such that they can make all the wrong calls and still get all the good outcomes.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 1, 2013 10:26:23 GMT -5
There is a lot of negativity regarding Buchholz. He is going to be fine. His injuries haven't been career threatening and i'm sure the staff will be working with him. Our rotation looks good for next season, bullpen could use some work though. We were very reliant on Taz, Breslow and Koji. It will be nice to have Miller back. It will be interesting to see what happens with bailey/hanrahan. Thornton likely gone. ...For an upwards of three months per season.
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 1, 2013 10:31:08 GMT -5
In 2010 and 2011 a lot of people were defending Ron Washington because he got results. He's burned off a lot of that goodwill because he continued to do the same dumb things with a less talented squad. On the other hand, Terry Francona did loads of foolish things in 2005, and probably some more in 2006 (though that year was less his fault), but legitimately made improvements in 2007. Farrell did a lot of things I disagreed with, but the team obviously responds to him, which is step one. Saying he needs to improve his game management is like saying Jackie Bradley needs to improve against hard stuff inside. Pointing out his flaws isn't damning him.
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Post by JackieWilsonsaid on Nov 1, 2013 10:31:52 GMT -5
Buchholz sure doesn't look healthy though. Doesn't he look like he has lost a lot of weight? When he first came up he looked thin but after a while he looked like he gained at least some weight and now he looks emaciated. I agree wholeheartedly. He looks terrible. I hate conjecture and idle speculation but I would have a "that explains it" reaction to just about any announcement of the typical causes of weight loss. As great as he throws, and to me I enjoy watching him more than anyone since Pedro when he is really dealing, he cannot be counted on as a top three guy for 2014, at least not yet.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,827
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Post by wcp3 on Nov 1, 2013 10:44:05 GMT -5
If you're still complaining about the moves Farrell made, then you should probably find another team to root for. I was as vocal as just about anyone regarding some of his moves, but look at the roster he just won 108 games with. The guy is very good at his job, end of story.I mean, he's better at his job than Mike Matheny, and someone has to win these games. How good is he really? I don't know and I'm kind of sick of arguing about it. Baseball will probably never really improve the quality of it's managers very much because the nature of the game is such that they can make all the wrong calls and still get all the good outcomes. I agree as I do with pretty much all your posts, but I do have a little hope he gets better. I think one thing people don't always realize is that coaches/managers - like players - can also improve. As much as Farrell can drive me nuts at times, he seems to learn from (some of) his mistakes very quickly. I would like to see him continue to improve next year, but when you consider how good he is at managing personalities (no small skill set to have, as we saw with Bobby V) I'm more than happy with what Farrell brings to the table. Anyway, that's the last I'll say about this issue. Back to the offseason...
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