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2014 Non-Red Sox MLB thread
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 20, 2014 16:12:46 GMT -5
Stock answer. And besides, players play the games and win championships...not front offices or owners. So the Red Sox FO gets no credit for winning the most championships out of all the teams in MLB since their take over? That seems a bit unfair. I mean, the Yankees haven't had roster overhauls and have been signing big-time free agents and look how far that's gotten them. They deserve credit. However, if the current win rate holds up, they will also own 2 of the 3 worst winning percentage in the last 50 years of the franchise. That deserves criticism also. As much as last season was great...they will now miss the playoffs for the 4th time in the last 5 years..despite having this wonderful, supportive fan base and all the resources a team could need. It doesn't sit well with me, and I realize it's not very popular.
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Post by jrffam05 on Aug 20, 2014 16:18:13 GMT -5
So the Red Sox FO gets no credit for winning the most championships out of all the teams in MLB since their take over? That seems a bit unfair. I mean, the Yankees haven't had roster overhauls and have been signing big-time free agents and look how far that's gotten them. They deserve credit. However, if the current win rate holds up, they will also own 2 of the 3 worst winning percentage in the last 50 years of the franchise. That deserves criticism also. As much as last season was great...they will now miss the playoffs for the 4th time in the last 5 years..despite having this wonderful, supportive fan base and all the resources a team could need. It doesn't sit well with me, and I realize it's not very popular. Poll question choose which 2 year sample you would rather have Y1: 97 Wins, WS title Y2: 73 Wins miss playoffs 170 wins total Or Y1: 92 Wins, WC birth Y2: 92 Wins, WC birth 184 wins total Honestly, under the new rules I think it is kinda stupid to play for the wild card. Not completely stupid, just kinda stupid.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 20, 2014 16:37:35 GMT -5
So the Red Sox FO gets no credit for winning the most championships out of all the teams in MLB since their take over? That seems a bit unfair. I mean, the Yankees haven't had roster overhauls and have been signing big-time free agents and look how far that's gotten them. They deserve credit. However, if the current win rate holds up, they will also own 2 of the 3 worst winning percentage in the last 50 years of the franchise. That deserves criticism also. As much as last season was great...they will now miss the playoffs for the 4th time in the last 5 years..despite having this wonderful, supportive fan base and all the resources a team could need. It doesn't sit well with me, and I realize it's not very popular. Honestly, I would rather two years of 60+ wins with a WS title wedged in-between verse being the Oakland Athletics. Sure, they own the two worst records in the last 50 years. They also have three championships that no ownership for the prior 86 years could accomplish. These things can happen to any team because, as you say, the players play the game. I mean this year and last year are prime examples of this. Almost an identical squad goes from 97 wins and a WS ring to a last place finish. Still, the Yankees again are a prime example of a team who is flexing their financial muscles and never unloads and look how stuck in the mud they are. This will be the second season in a row in which they miss the playoffs. Even if they're more competitive than the Red Sox, what's the difference in winning 5 games or 85 games if you miss the playoffs either way? Sometimes being worse is better.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 20, 2014 16:44:51 GMT -5
Agree with this despite the utter frustration and eye-bleeding that involved watching 2012 and this year. They also get a mulligan from me the year after a WS win, but, still, that doesn't make this year any easier to follow.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Aug 20, 2014 16:49:10 GMT -5
I'm just not certain who the "big time free agents" are these days. There's been an influx of talent from Cuban baseball some of it quite successful. But the Hamilton's and Choo's of the world haven't exactly been lighting it on fire. Carlos Beltran's OPS is barely about .700, Ellsbury is at .740 but that's a high price to pay for good but by no means great production. Stanton looks legit, but can he stay healthy? I don't think the team could play him anywhere but left field or DH. I've watched him butcher right field.
The offensive environment has changed so dramatically, it could be that many of the potential free agents won't perform anywhere near their career numbers. I know there are posters who think Hardy is hot stuff. Go past that shiny average and his OBP is all of .318 and he's slugging below .400. Add to that the fact that he's 33 next year... Is this really who you want the team to spend money on?
This isn't the early to mid 2000's, that's for sure.
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Post by rangoon82 on Aug 20, 2014 16:52:41 GMT -5
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Post by mredsox89 on Aug 20, 2014 16:57:58 GMT -5
The Yanks have $170M committed for 2015 and 2016. That doesn't include arbitration for Nova, Kelley, Rogers, Cervelli, Phelps, Pineda, and a few others, which will tack on close to $10M.
Trying to get under the luxury tax in either season is an absolute long shot at this time, but maybe they still want to by 2017/2018? Are they willing to go another season or two of being mediocre at best while still paying nearly $200M per year? Probably not.
I do think the whole concept of being ok with being awful for multiple years so long as a WS win is mixed in is kind of flawed, only because even if they're clearly the best team in the good years, that doesn't guarantee much other than a better shot at the World Series. That being said, I don't buy that that is part of the plan, it just happens to be the result of a myriad of things that have happened over the last three seasons
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 20, 2014 17:12:46 GMT -5
They deserve credit. However, if the current win rate holds up, they will also own 2 of the 3 worst winning percentage in the last 50 years of the franchise. That deserves criticism also. As much as last season was great...they will now miss the playoffs for the 4th time in the last 5 years..despite having this wonderful, supportive fan base and all the resources a team could need. It doesn't sit well with me, and I realize it's not very popular. Honestly, I would rather two years of 60+ wins with a WS title wedged in-between verse being the Oakland Athletics. Sure, they own the two worst records in the last 50 years. They also have three championships that no ownership for the prior 86 years could accomplish. These things can happen to any team because, as you say, the players play the game. I mean this year and last year are prime examples of this. Almost an identical squad goes from 97 wins and a WS ring to a last place finish. Still, the Yankees again are a prime example of a team who is flexing their financial muscles and never unloads and look how stuck in the mud they are. This will be the second season in a row in which they miss the playoffs. Even if they're more competitive than the Red Sox, what's the difference in winning 5 games or 85 games if you miss the playoffs either way? Sometimes being worse is better. I think that is very fair. But the argument could be made that getting in is the real key...given today's game...any opportunity could lead to a world series. Either way, in and as much as a front office can impact a world series team, I just kind of get tired of the front office ball washing that goes on. But I respect your view on the matter.
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Post by mgoetze on Aug 20, 2014 20:52:30 GMT -5
Grady Sizemore 112 wRC+ in 108 PA with the Phillies.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 21, 2014 6:24:00 GMT -5
Grady Sizemore 112 wRC+ in 108 PA with the Phillies. And check out the BABIP. No loss.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 21, 2014 6:58:08 GMT -5
Grady Sizemore 112 wRC+ in 108 PA with the Phillies. And check out the BABIP. No loss. Saying that his wRC+ has an element of luck based on BABIP analysis is a valid statement. Saying 'no loss' is saying sabermetric analysis is more important than what actually happens on a baseball field, it isn't.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Aug 21, 2014 7:33:15 GMT -5
And check out the BABIP. No loss. Saying that his wRC+ has an element of luck based on BABIP analysis is a valid statement. Saying 'no loss' is saying sabermetric analysis is more important than what actually happens on a baseball field, it isn't. Sabermetric analysis IS what actually happens on a baseball field.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 21, 2014 7:40:17 GMT -5
And check out the BABIP. No loss. Saying that his wRC+ has an element of luck based on BABIP analysis is a valid statement. Saying 'no loss' is saying sabermetric analysis is more important than what actually happens on a baseball field, it isn't. Losing Grady Sizemore was no loss.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 21, 2014 8:04:24 GMT -5
Saying that his wRC+ has an element of luck based on BABIP analysis is a valid statement. Saying 'no loss' is saying sabermetric analysis is more important than what actually happens on a baseball field, it isn't. Losing Grady Sizemore was no loss. LOL, that's probably a true statement. ADD: I do want to add that I hope that Grady continues having success and finds himself a contract for 2015 and beyond. If you can't admire just getting back to the majors after all he's been through, there's something wrong with you.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 21, 2014 8:10:14 GMT -5
Saying that his wRC+ has an element of luck based on BABIP analysis is a valid statement. Saying 'no loss' is saying sabermetric analysis is more important than what actually happens on a baseball field, it isn't. Sabermetric analysis IS what actually happens on a baseball field. No, it's not. The numbers are but the interpretation isn't. A BABIP is a pure number but to suggest that it has any significance including luck is an interpretation. The word analysis is the interpretation of what people perceive happened on the baseball field and the meaning it implies not what actually happened.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Aug 21, 2014 8:49:03 GMT -5
Sabermetric analysis IS what actually happens on a baseball field. No, it's not. The numbers are but the interpretation isn't. A BABIP is a pure number but to suggest that it has any significance including luck is an interpretation. The word analysis is the interpretation of what people perceive happened on the baseball field and the meaning it implies not what actually happened.Ok, I literally have no idea what these words mean. But I'll try anyway: Grady Sizemore has been striking out at roughly the same rate with the Phillies as with the Sox, he's walking about half as much, he's hitting for roughly as much power, and 10% more of the balls he's put in play have fallen for hits. These are all things that have actually happened on a baseball field.As for the interpretation of these events, we're not just guessing here. We've got a hundred years of things that have happened on baseball fields, not to mention the history of all the things Grady Sizemore has done on baseball fields, to look at as precedent. And all of these things that have happened on baseball fields allow us to conclude with a reasonable level of certainty that, yeah, Grady Sizemore still sucks and will continue to suck in the foreseeable future.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 21, 2014 10:20:55 GMT -5
No, it's not. The numbers are but the interpretation isn't. A BABIP is a pure number but to suggest that it has any significance including luck is an interpretation. The word analysis is the interpretation of what people perceive happened on the baseball field and the meaning it implies not what actually happened.Ok, I literally have no idea what these words mean. But I'll try anyway: Grady Sizemore has been striking out at roughly the same rate with the Phillies as with the Sox, he's walking about half as much, he's hitting for roughly as much power, and 10% more of the balls he's put in play have fallen for hits. These are all things that have actually happened on a baseball field.As for the interpretation of these events, we're not just guessing here. We've got a hundred years of things that have happened on baseball fields, not to mention the history of all the things Grady Sizemore has done on baseball fields, to look at as precedent. And all of these things that have happened on baseball fields allow us to conclude with a reasonable level of certainty that, yeah, Grady Sizemore still sucks and will continue to suck in the foreseeable future. I get what he's saying and I get what you're saying so let me try to simplify it for both parties to see if it makes a bit of sense. I believe it breaks down to this. Grady Sizemore has been very superdy duperdy awesome with Philly based purely on the raw production that he has produced. If he had preformed this way throughout the year, he would have been a damn valuable baseball player. Saber-metrics take a look at the production that Sizemore has had on the baseball field and takes a closer look at said production. While the raw output has him performing like an all-star, which awards and accolades should be based on, the saber-metrics should be used by GMs and fans who want to gauge future performances by said player. While Sizemore has been awesome with Philly his production on the field is SCREAMING regression and that if he continues playing the way he has he will revert back to the mean and be the player he was in Boston which is worth less than a AAAA player. So yes, he has the raw numbers of an all-star. His true production will revert back to the mean if he continues this trend of hitting to a player who sucks, hard.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 21, 2014 11:22:39 GMT -5
Bottom line, if Grady Sizemore put up a .294/.333/.422/.755 line for the Red Sox, he'd be the third best hitter on the team.
I don't disagree with where Grady is likely to head to and I also think All-Star is a bit of a stretch. It's nowhere near as big a stretch as saying that sucks. That's moronic.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 21, 2014 11:29:53 GMT -5
Bottom line, if Grady Sizemore put up a .294/.333/.422/.755 line for the Red Sox, he'd be the third best hitter on the team. I don't disagree with where Grady is likely to head to and I also think All-Star is a bit of a stretch. It's nowhere near as big a stretch as saying that sucks. That's moronic. I think it's fair to say that he sucks and that he's been extremely lucky. I always go back to Willy Mo Pena. Even he hit .300 for the Red Sox for a time.
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Post by taftreign on Aug 21, 2014 11:29:57 GMT -5
Losing Grady Sizemore was no loss. LOL, that's probably a true statement. ADD: I do want to add that I hope that Grady continues having success and finds himself a contract for 2015 and beyond. If you can't admire just getting back to the majors after all he's been through, there's something wrong with you. Based on Amaro's track record he will probably be convinced he should give Sizemore 3 years and 27 mil this offseason.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 21, 2014 11:36:14 GMT -5
LOL, that's probably a true statement. ADD: I do want to add that I hope that Grady continues having success and finds himself a contract for 2015 and beyond. If you can't admire just getting back to the majors after all he's been through, there's something wrong with you. Based on Amaro's track record he will probably be convinced he should give Sizemore 3 years and 27 mil this offseason. That would be ideal.
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Post by chavopepe2 on Aug 21, 2014 11:49:49 GMT -5
Bottom line, if Grady Sizemore put up a .294/.333/.422/.755 line for the Red Sox, he'd be the third best hitter on the team. I don't disagree with where Grady is likely to head to and I also think All-Star is a bit of a stretch. It's nowhere near as big a stretch as saying that sucks. That's moronic. If Sizemore put up that line he would have had the third highest production on the team over that period of time. That is different from saying he'd be the third best hitter on the team. And therein is the value of DIPS that you seem to so regularly dismiss.
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 21, 2014 16:48:28 GMT -5
Bill Shaikin ?@billshaikin 12m #Angels acquire IF Gordon Beckham from #WhiteSox for PTBNL or cash.
Alden Gonzalez ?@alden_Gonzalez 59m Garrett Richards has a torn patella tendon in left knee. 6-9 month recovery. Surgery next week. #Angels
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 22, 2014 4:07:22 GMT -5
Bottom line, if Grady Sizemore put up a .294/.333/.422/.755 line for the Red Sox, he'd be the third best hitter on the team. I don't disagree with where Grady is likely to head to and I also think All-Star is a bit of a stretch. It's nowhere near as big a stretch as saying that sucks. That's moronic. If Sizemore put up that line he would have had the third highest production on the team over that period of time. That is different from saying he'd be the third best hitter on the team. And therein is the value of DIPS that you seem to so regularly dismiss. Fair enough, Sizemore would have been the third most productive. This really has nothing to do with DIPS only a statement that Sizemore hasn't sucked since he was picked up by the Philies. It also has nothing to do with how I think he will do going forward. It's only saying he hasn't sucked since he was released. If you think third most productive hitter on a major league team qualifies in the sucks category, that's your choice. Using advanced metrics for projection is great, loved WMB's 30 HRs.
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Post by joshv02 on Aug 22, 2014 6:40:54 GMT -5
Seriously? Doubling down on the "I'm not wrong" again?
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