nomar
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Post by nomar on Oct 18, 2012 23:27:41 GMT -5
Moore's strikeout rate scares me. A hitting prospect with his combination of high strikeouts and low walks indicates poor plate discipline and pitch recognition, which is evident in his scouting reports as well. Hitters with that profile often find it difficult to succeed in the major leagues-- they can put up crazy power numbers in the minors because pitchers lack the command and advanced secondary stuff to fool them consistently, but their holes get exploited by major league pitchers and they can't tap into their natural power to the same degree. Think guys like Chris Carter (OAK) (although he walked twice as often as Moore in the minors) and our own Jarrod Saltalamacchia. Even the players who manage to put up similar power numbers have their value depressed by low batting averages and on-base percentages-- Mark Trumbo has averaged 30+ home runs the last two years, but his WARs have only been 2.4 and 2.5 (only slightly above-average) due to difficulty getting on base and poor defense (a problem Moore shares as well). Will Middlebrooks rates look even worse, FWIW. |
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Post by jmei on Oct 19, 2012 7:44:26 GMT -5
He's a third baseman and the offensive bar is set much, much lower. But yeah, I'm not too high on WMB either-- I think he's a complementary piece, not a lineup centerpiece.
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Post by James Dunne on Oct 19, 2012 7:55:21 GMT -5
EDIT: Completely screwed up this post. Which is what I deserve for reading two threads at once in the morning before my coffee...
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sarcasmo
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Formerly known as mtomeo
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Post by sarcasmo on Oct 19, 2012 8:29:25 GMT -5
How is Moore any better than a guy we already have, Sands? Not advocating we start Sands, I just don't see why we would trade for a guy that seems comperable to someone we already have.
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steveofbradenton
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Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
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Post by steveofbradenton on Oct 19, 2012 8:53:03 GMT -5
We are so focused, and maybe rightly so, on the 2 young righties we got from the Dodgers, but I'm thinking we have added some solid depth, at least, with De Jesus and Sands.
Sands may be more than just depth and, to me, is intriguing.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Oct 19, 2012 9:40:52 GMT -5
We are so focused, and maybe rightly so, on the 2 young righties we got from the Dodgers, but I'm thinking we have added some solid depth, at least, with De Jesus and Sands. Sands may be more than just depth and, to me, is intriguing. He interests me too, but i think that if the Dodgers thought he could be valuable then they wouldnt have used him as a throw in. I could be wrong but why give up a guy with starting potential if they had already agreed on two solid specs. |
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Post by James Dunne on Oct 19, 2012 9:46:05 GMT -5
Do we know that he was a throw in? He may well have been someone the Red Sox asked for specifically.
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Post by raftsox on Oct 19, 2012 9:56:16 GMT -5
Dunne: www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=moore-001tylHe has consistently hit 20+ HR with an .800+OPS the last 3 years between A+ to MLB and will be making league minimum. If anything he would be a sell low because they would be trading him from a strong position of depth. I think blaming it on Johnson is strongly disingenuous to his skill-set. Pokee, Look beyond the OPS shiny toy. His plate discipline numbers are horrible: he swings at more pitches inside and outside of the zone than average, but makes contact at a much lower percentage than average. Looking around, a good comp for him might be Chris Davis: ie, someone who bounces from team to team and between the minors and majors and has some seasons (according to wOBA+) that are well above or well below average. Altogether not someone worth trading for; these types of players are available on waiver wires or at the end of ST every year. JamesDunne, Humorously, he was poorly used by Johnson in 2012. He's a RHH that's better vs. RHP, but saw a majority of PAs vs. LHPs. I |
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Post by James Dunne on Oct 19, 2012 10:29:08 GMT -5
Raftsox, do his minor league numbers reinforce that? (Not a snide question, I don't have the data) Moore strikes me as the sort of player who wouldn't have significant L/R splits, and instead would be more of a guy who would mash fastballs and struggle with secondary stuff, no matter the hand it's coming out of.
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Post by soxcentral on Oct 19, 2012 13:30:53 GMT -5
Buster Olney mentioned Brian McCann as a good buy low solution for the Yankees as a part time DH/1B/LF possiblity once he's fully healthy....expected to be at some point in 2013.
Since we are not likely contenders next year and don't need him right away anyways, does anyone think he'd be a potential good fit for us instead of the MFY?
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Post by raftsox on Oct 19, 2012 13:40:52 GMT -5
Raftsox, do his minor league numbers reinforce that? (Not a snide question, I don't have the data) Moore strikes me as the sort of player who wouldn't have significant L/R splits, and instead would be more of a guy who would mash fastballs and struggle with secondary stuff, no matter the hand it's coming out of. Nay. They do not reinforce that via final results, but his peripherals may. Better ISOd and GB/LD/FB ratio vs. RHP. |
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Post by pokeefe363 on Oct 20, 2012 1:16:20 GMT -5
Pokee, Look beyond the OPS shiny toy. His plate discipline numbers are horrible: he swings at more pitches inside and outside of the zone than average, but makes contact at a much lower percentage than average. Looking around, a good comp for him might be Chris Davis: ie, someone who bounces from team to team and between the minors and majors and has some seasons (according to wOBA+) that are well above or well below average. Altogether not someone worth trading for; these types of players are available on waiver wires or at the end of ST every year. JamesDunne, Humorously, he was poorly used by Johnson in 2012. He's a RHH that's better vs. RHP, but saw a majority of PAs vs. LHPs. I Chris Davis was a pretty darn good player this year. I'm pretty sure we'd take 33 HR out of our 1B this year if we could get it. My point on Moore was to look towards guys that are blocked who have put up consistently good MILB numbers. I think instead of looking for the super star, we need to develop our own while avoiding the chronic black holes we seem to have due to injuries, etc every year. |
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Post by jmei on Oct 20, 2012 9:24:30 GMT -5
Chris Davis hit a bunch of home runs but his below-average on base ability and poor defense very much limit his overall value. Fangraphs has him listed at 2.1 WAR and B-R has his WAR at 1.3 this season. His home run rate is about the same as Saltalamacchia's (35 per 600 PAs for Davis, 33 per 600 PAs for Salty) but that doesn't mean they're top-tier players since they're so bad at every other facet of the game.
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Post by welovewally on Oct 20, 2012 18:32:18 GMT -5
It's a crazy thought and certainly would be unprecedented but does anybody think that the Sox could make a trade with the Yankees for A Rod getting them to pay half ( or more ) of his remaining contract and have A Rod play 1B? Crazy huh?
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Post by iakovos11 on Oct 20, 2012 18:58:14 GMT -5
I will turn in my Red Sox fan card if they trade for ARod. Stupid stupid stupid move.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Oct 20, 2012 19:10:04 GMT -5
Might want to get a handle on what the Rod is worth these days. Estimate is $8 - 10 million. NY would have to eat, and eat some more. And why bother unless you've got a Jones for drama? Better alternatives are available and they don't come with all that baggage or the salary overhang.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 20, 2012 20:53:07 GMT -5
It's a crazy thought and certainly would be unprecedented but does anybody think that the Sox could make a trade with the Yankees for A Rod getting them to pay half ( or more ) of his remaining contract and have A Rod play 1B? Crazy huh? It wouldn't be crazy. It would be downright stupid. The Yanks would love for somebody to take A-Rod off their hands and pay any if not half the freight. Think about it. He's 38, declining, and has red-flags beyond the game to put it mildly. His contract runs thru 2017. Do you really want to pay a portion (half?) of his contract when he's ages 38 - 42? And have him hit as a 1b, a position he's never played, and which is supposed to have great production, which you won't get out of a 38 year old A-Rod, let alone a 42 year old A-Rod. Why in the world would the Sox EVER do this? Do you feel that Lucchino thinks the Sox need A-Rod's "marketability"? C'mon. The Sox don't need a washed up name. They need good young players to develop, some smart free agent signings and some astute deals. A-Rod would be neither of the three. |
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Post by mredsox89 on Oct 20, 2012 23:10:09 GMT -5
The only way the MFY move A-rod is if they pay 80%+ of his deal, and move him purely to open up that roster spot/get rid of the constant story of A-rod.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Oct 21, 2012 1:11:38 GMT -5
I'm waiting for the next suggestion, that Rodriguez be part of a platoon split with Lind...
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steveofbradenton
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Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
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Post by steveofbradenton on Oct 21, 2012 7:43:03 GMT -5
Looks like, at the moment, that 1st base may be a platoon of Adam Lind (if the rumor is true) and either Jerry Sands or Super Mauro.
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Post by sibbysisti on Oct 21, 2012 9:49:02 GMT -5
Too bad Lind is not coming this way. He would have given us a proven LH bat to platoon with Mauro/Sands at 1B or LF.
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Post by elguapo on Oct 21, 2012 11:44:53 GMT -5
Too bad Lind is not coming this way. He would have given us a proven LH bat to platoon with Mauro/Sands at 1B or LF. If we need a mediocre LH platoon bat we can sign one for much less than $7M. |
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Post by fdrnewdeal on Oct 22, 2012 7:54:13 GMT -5
Too bad Lind is not coming this way. He would have given us a proven LH bat to platoon with Mauro/Sands at 1B or LF. If we need a mediocre LH platoon bat we can sign one for much less than $7M. Agreed. Lind's K and BB numbers have actually been pretty consistent over his major league career. The only difference between his good year and the rest of his career is that in 2009, 20% of his flyballs were homers. There are examples of guys who do that over their careers... but I don't think Lind is that likely to repeat that. If he were cheaper, he'd be an interesting option. As is, not really. |
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Post by brendan98 on Oct 22, 2012 8:07:59 GMT -5
It's a crazy thought and certainly would be unprecedented but does anybody think that the Sox could make a trade with the Yankees for A Rod getting them to pay half ( or more ) of his remaining contract and have A Rod play 1B? Crazy huh? It wouldn't be crazy. It would be downright stupid. The Yanks would love for somebody to take A-Rod off their hands and pay any if not half the freight. Think about it. He's 38, declining, and has red-flags beyond the game to put it mildly. His contract runs thru 2017. Do you really want to pay a portion (half?) of his contract when he's ages 38 - 42? And have him hit as a 1b, a position he's never played, and which is supposed to have great production, which you won't get out of a 38 year old A-Rod, let alone a 42 year old A-Rod. Why in the world would the Sox EVER do this? Do you feel that Lucchino thinks the Sox need A-Rod's "marketability"? C'mon. The Sox don't need a washed up name. They need good young players to develop, some smart free agent signings and some astute deals. A-Rod would be neither of the three. Agreed 100%. Hopefully nobody lets the Yankees off the hook for this albatross of a contract, and the Yanks have to live with it for years to come. |
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Post by bigpapismangosalsa on Oct 22, 2012 17:50:45 GMT -5
I think that 1B should be an approach similar to what we took somewhat in 2003, but including more for younger players to battle it out or those that are blocked on other teams.
Adams has been mentioned in StLouis (and I think he is the most reasonable target) but I'd basically ask "which costs least" of Adams, Craig and Carpenter out there - likely Adams.
Rizzo - no, we're not getting him back. Maybe a Brian LaHair could be in play however.
Chris Carter in Oakland. Could very well be a AAAA player right now, maybe we already have him in Gomez, but why not.
Throw Gomez into this equation, let him have ST at bats too.
Target a name like Smoak mentioned by a poster earlier.
Best case scenario is we strike gold again. Worst case is that first base is a mediocre offensive position in a year that the Sox are unlikely to contend for the playoffs. Keep options and money open for a big acquisition down the line.
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