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Post by moonstone2 on Jul 16, 2014 9:55:37 GMT -5
There is quite a logjam in the infield, isn't there? Not everyone can move to LF. Something has gotta give eventually. Betts, Xander, Marrero, Pedroia, Holt, WMB, Cecchini, Coyle, with Devers, Rijo and Chavis on the back end. Some of these players are going to fall off the map and will never become major league talents. Cecchini has had an awful year thus far and unless he's nursing an injury that I am not aware of, he's not a major league player. Will Middlebrooks is going to be 26 next year, and has never had any sustained major league success. Unless he can come back in the second half and do something, he's not going to be a great option either. Holt up until this year was considered at best a fringe regular and for all his exploits this year still sports a .36 BB/K ratio. I wouldn't count on him as a major league regular either. As it stands now the Sox should probably go the free agent route. I'd go with either Headley or Lowrie for a year and they can turn their careers around. They are also probably going to have to at least think about David Wright. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 18, 2014 5:57:20 GMT -5
There is quite a logjam in the infield, isn't there? Not everyone can move to LF. Something has gotta give eventually. Betts, Xander, Marrero, Pedroia, Holt, WMB, Cecchini, Coyle, with Devers, Rijo and Chavis on the back end. Remember when the Rangers had a huge logjam at second and short? |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 18, 2014 6:02:07 GMT -5
There is quite a logjam in the infield, isn't there? Not everyone can move to LF. Something has gotta give eventually. Betts, Xander, Marrero, Pedroia, Holt, WMB, Cecchini, Coyle, with Devers, Rijo and Chavis on the back end. As it stands now the Sox should probably go the free agent route. I'd go with either Headley or Lowrie for a year and they can turn their careers around. They are also probably going to have to at least think about David Wright. Headley is a terrible option. He's basically Middlebrooks... Ok maybe not quite but he's had one great year then a whole lot of blah... Not touching him next year. Why not give the kids a chance? Lowrie is going to take an expensive longterm contract... No thank you Wright is signed at huge money through 2020... The Mets are trying to contend soon not trade their biggest star to start over. 0-3 |
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Post by burythehammer on Jul 18, 2014 6:23:56 GMT -5
Including Devers, Rijo and Chavis on that list is borderline insane. By the time they are (if they ever are) ready to be big league regulars Xander Bogaerts could be a year away from free agency.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 18, 2014 7:14:22 GMT -5
Including Devers, Rijo and Chavis on that list is borderline insane. By the time they are (if they ever are) ready to be big league regulars Xander Bogaerts could be a year away from free agency. Yeah, we're just letting 26 year old Bogaerts walk... maybe if he is a complete bust. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 18, 2014 7:15:11 GMT -5
There is quite a logjam in the infield, isn't there? Not everyone can move to LF. Something has gotta give eventually. Betts, Xander, Marrero, Pedroia, Holt, WMB, Cecchini, Coyle, with Devers, Rijo and Chavis on the back end. Remember when the Rangers had a huge logjam at second and short? Yeah, I guess something had to give there huh? |
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Post by iakovos11 on Jul 18, 2014 8:42:15 GMT -5
Or remember when they had that problem with all those near major league ready catchers - Salty, Max Ramirez, and Teagarden?
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Post by burythehammer on Jul 18, 2014 11:04:01 GMT -5
Including Devers, Rijo and Chavis on that list is borderline insane. By the time they are (if they ever are) ready to be big league regulars Xander Bogaerts could be a year away from free agency. Yeah, we're just letting 26 year old Bogaerts walk... maybe if he is a complete bust. My point is that you vastly underestimate how different a team can look even a couple years down the road, never mind 4 or 5 years. When Bogaerts was Devers' age our infield was Youkilis, Pedroia, Scutaro and Beltre and our top prospects were Lars Anderson and Casey Kelly. That was 4 years ago. Do you honestly think the Red Sox are projecting how 17/18 year olds are going to fit into their lineup? The chances that just one of those three you mentioned even pan out are so slim it's just ridiculous to even talk about. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 18, 2014 11:09:35 GMT -5
I'm not underestimating anything. I said room will have to be made. I'm not causing controversy here, just stating the obvious that we have a whole lot of prospects who look like they could be major league players.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 18, 2014 11:09:45 GMT -5
And when Pedroia was drafted the infield was Mueller, Garciaparra, Bellhorn and Millar. He never played with any of them.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 18, 2014 11:13:15 GMT -5
And when Pedroia was drafted the infield was Mueller, Garciaparra, Bellhorn and Millar. He never played with any of them. The obvious difference here is that Bogaerts and Betts are 21 in the majors. |
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Post by moonstone2 on Jul 18, 2014 12:04:15 GMT -5
Because to be blunt "the kids", with the exception of Bogaerts, suck.
#1 Cecchini is having an awful year at AAA and has questions about his defense. You can't make him the 3B next year.
#2 Holt is a rich man's Pedro Ciriaco. He has a .35 BB/K ratio and a .400 BABIP. He's 26 and until this year was thought of as a fringe regular. No way you can plan around him in 2015.
#3 Middlebrooks isn't a kid anymore he's going to be 26 and has never shown consistent ability to hit major league pitching. You can't count on him either.
Other candidates like Betts(who hasn't played 3B in his life, and Coyle who has had one healthy minor league stretch aren't really candidates at all)
There is a clear need for a veteran 3B.
Headley is NOT Middlebrooks basically or otherwise. He recently had an 1100 PA stretch with a .370 OBP which is something Middlebrooks has never been able to do. His career seems to have collapsed with a myriad of injuries, but if he's healthy, which is a big if, he'll be good.
I really doubt that Lowrie is going to get a big expensive long-term contract. Why would he? He's having a year far worse than last year. Lowrie is another guy who has a career of injuries but he has a proven ability to hit if healthy.
I am all for giving kids a chance but not kids who aren't any good.
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Post by jmei on Jul 18, 2014 12:06:25 GMT -5
And when Pedroia was drafted the infield was Mueller, Garciaparra, Bellhorn and Millar. He never played with any of them. The obvious difference here is that Bogaerts and Betts are 21 in the majors. ...and guys like Devers and Chavis are making their stateside debuts and are 3+ years from the majors, while Pedroia was a college guy who made it to Pawtucket in his first year in the minors and debuted in the majors in his second. The point is: those guys are really, really far away, and it is a waste of time to start penciling them into the major league depth chart like you have here. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 18, 2014 12:08:19 GMT -5
Funny, Holt is out wRC+ing Headley this year by 42 points. 129-87
Even mentioning Pedro Ciriaco in the same post should be a crime.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 18, 2014 12:09:06 GMT -5
The obvious difference here is that Bogaerts and Betts are 21 in the majors. ...and guys like Devers and Chavis are making their stateside debuts and are 3+ years from the majors, while Pedroia was a college guy who made it to Pawtucket in his first year in the minors and debuted in the majors in his second. The point is: those guys are really, really far away, and it is a waste of time to start penciling them into the major league depth chart like you have here. Which is why I separated them in the sentence. |
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Post by jmei on Jul 18, 2014 12:11:06 GMT -5
They shouldn't have been in the same sentence to begin with! But I think this horse is dead, we can move on to the next one.
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Post by jmei on Jul 18, 2014 15:50:06 GMT -5
Moved the Holt discussion to its own thread. Let's keep this one to Coyle.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Jul 18, 2014 16:52:26 GMT -5
I don't have time to look it up right now but I vaguely remember Coyle making a ton of errors this year at 3rd. To a point in which they bailed on that project early on. I'm speculating but that looked like what might have been happening. He had 8 errors early if I remember correctly. Not sure how many were at 3rd but he didn't play in the field a whole lot either.
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Post by RedSoxStats on Jul 21, 2014 16:10:31 GMT -5
Clearly there has been some funky stuff going on with his BABIP this year (a few weeks ago it was .415 with an xBABIP of like .220). Over the last 30 days he has hit 3 line drives in 57 balls in play, 2nd worst in the Sox system above Nick Moore. Anyone that has seen him live, is his swing just so uppercut that it has to be ridiculous perfect for it not to end uo a flyball or groundball?
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 21, 2014 16:21:56 GMT -5
Clearly there has been some funky stuff going on with his BABIP this year (a few weeks ago it was .415 with an xBABIP of like .220). Over the last 30 days he has hit 3 line drives in 57 balls in play, 2nd worst in the Sox system above Nick Moore. Anyone that has seen him live, is his swing just so uppercut that it has to be ridiculous perfect for it not to end uo a flyball or groundball? Wow that's awful. |
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Post by onbase on Jul 21, 2014 17:47:20 GMT -5
Clearly there has been some funky stuff going on with his BABIP this year (a few weeks ago it was .415 with an xBABIP of like .220). Over the last 30 days he has hit 3 line drives in 57 balls in play, 2nd worst in the Sox system above Nick Moore. Anyone that has seen him live, is his swing just so uppercut that it has to be ridiculous perfect for it not to end uo a flyball or groundball? That sounds more like what I saw from Almanzar over 3 of the 4 NH games. He either swung at air or the ball went a long way. Coyle just looked like either his timing was off or he wasn't seeing the ball; he didn't appear to be swinging with conviction. I'm not an expert on swings but I don't think uppercut describes what I saw. (hoping someone else chimes in on this). |
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Jul 21, 2014 18:22:09 GMT -5
He should watch tapes of Mookie. And move toward that level swing that Mookie has perfected. No need to copy it but imagine the progress he would make if he barrelled up more balls.
Edit: and then work to get out of the box faster. That is a huge part of Mookie's game.
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