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Post by polarbear91 on Dec 6, 2012 15:28:05 GMT -5
This literally doesn't mention Sanchez even once.
Sorry, this whole time I was hearing Grienke when you were saying Sanchez. Back to your regularly scheduled program.
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Post by leo on Dec 6, 2012 17:40:47 GMT -5
Interesting thought, what if the Red Sox trade away Ellsbury and then sign Bourne, who seems more durable, has put up constant OBP around .350 (prototype leadoff hitter), and is not going to demand a ridiculous contract. Even more so, the CF market is more and more satisfied, after the Phillies decided to go with Revere.
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Post by burythehammer on Dec 6, 2012 17:55:13 GMT -5
Uh, there's this guy named Jackie...
I mean I'm not saying he's a sure thing but you're not gonna hand out a 5 year deal to a guy like Bourne.
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Post by dcri on Dec 6, 2012 18:24:54 GMT -5
So long as Bourn continues to play well, he will have considerable trade value, assuming his contract isn't outrageous. Now that the demand for CFs has about been satisfied, he probably is not getting an extreme contract from anyone.
It would be a nice problem to have.
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Post by RedSoxStats on Dec 6, 2012 19:16:04 GMT -5
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Post by buffs4444 on Dec 6, 2012 19:45:34 GMT -5
Until/unless Bourn is priced out of the market by Boras and has to settle for a pillow contract a la Beltre, he seems unlikely.
And when Napoli/Ortiz is the 3/4 in this lineup, it's time to open up the "When will JBJ/Xander be called up to Boston?" thread....
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 6, 2012 21:20:24 GMT -5
Uh, there's this guy named Jackie... I mean I'm not saying he's a sure thing but you're not gonna hand out a 5 year deal to a guy like Bourne. Is Jackie Bradley, Jr. not allowed to play in the same OF as Bourne or Ellsbury? Why can't we pay big money to someone like Bourne over 5 years and put someone like JBjr next to him on the cheap for the last 4 years of that deal? Isn't that exactly something you'd want to do? Offset the expensive player with a really cheap one? JBjr would look really nice in RF in Fenway for the first few years of his career. Don't tell him he doesn't have the power to be a right fielder; a good ball player is a good ball player. If Boagaerts is a short stop hitting 25 hrs and batting 3rd then our right fielder can hit 1st, 2nd or 6th, etc. Position doesn't matter.
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 6, 2012 21:22:35 GMT -5
The Patriots should sign him as an UDFA and he should play both baseball and football. We need someone like that. I realize it's hard, but I would think it'd be easier now with the shape these guys are in vs it was in the past.
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Post by buffs4444 on Dec 6, 2012 21:45:28 GMT -5
Ortiz:
Damn man, I hope so.....
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Post by patrmac04 on Dec 6, 2012 22:50:49 GMT -5
The Red Sox acquired righty Kyle Kaminska from the Pirates to complete the Zach Stewart trade, the team announced. Who
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Dec 7, 2012 8:49:10 GMT -5
When they signed Koji Uehara for $4.25 million for one year and he is 37, I think that was a real sign that 2013 was NOT going to be a "bridge" year exactly.
You could probably say the same about Victorino or Gomes, but the Koji signing surprised me. I like it, but I think it shows that an Alex Wilson is probably not in the cards for this year.
They are definitely not done, and a big deal could actually happen.
A Hamilton signing would be exciting, but a part of me would like to see a guy like Ryan Kalish get a chance to platoon in left with Gomes and FINALLY get his major-league career started.
I would not be shocked or surprised if Ben Cherington gives us a move that is unexpected. I'd rather it was for a starting pitcher who was on the verge of being special than Josh Hamilton at this stage.
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Post by bluechip on Dec 7, 2012 9:43:33 GMT -5
I really like this bullpen:
CL: Bailey SU: Uehara SU/: Tazawa
LHRP: MIller LHRP: Breslow
MR: Melancon MR/mop-up man: Mortensen
SW: Aceves
AAA/Battling for MR spots/injury replacements: Wilson, Bard, Beato, Carpenter
Morales will likely also be in the pen, but at this point his role is really undefined. He could be a SW, lefty setup guy, mop-up, or even setup pitcher. It all really depends upon how he performs, the health of the starters, and the performance of the other bullpen arms.
If Bailey struggles or becomes injured the interesting decision will be whether the team uses Tazawa (with more traditional velocity), Uehara (most proven track record), or Bard (if he has returned to form).
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Post by sarasoxer on Dec 7, 2012 10:37:48 GMT -5
What was surprising is that Morales threw at least as hard as a starter as he did out of the pen. Curious.
Don't want to 'sell high" on Miller. Guys his size who can throw bbees are in a different animal class. Even if his control falters, someone will be there with interest and a belief.
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Post by sdsoxfan on Dec 7, 2012 10:57:06 GMT -5
Despite Bard as a starter debacle, I look at Miller with his plus fastball and wipeout slider and see second coming of Big Unit.
Cost of potentially elite starters is so high in terms of money or prospects, market inefficiency could be taking failed starters with plus stuff in mid 20's and turning them into starters after initial control problems are worked out in bullpen role for a couple of years. Poster child - Johan Santana.
Will fail more often than not, but huge upside with chance to be #2/3 in a couple of years. Especially power lefties like Miller and Morales.
Waste of time trotting out Aaron Cook's of the world as #5 starter. We need to build for next great team in 2015.
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Post by bluechip on Dec 7, 2012 11:04:50 GMT -5
Despite Bard as a starter debacle, I look at Miller with his plus fastball and wipeout slider and see second coming of Big Unit. Cost of potentially elite starters is so high in terms of money or prospects, market inefficiency could be taking failed starters with plus stuff in mid 20's and turning them into starters after initial control problems are worked out in bullpen role for a couple of years. Poster child - Johan Santana. Will fail more often than not, but huge upside with chance to be #2/3 in a couple of years. Especially power lefties like Miller and Morales. Waste of time trotting out Aaron Cook's of the world as #5 starter. We need to build for next great team in 2015. Miller gained about 2.5 MPH on his fastball (making it an average pitch according to PITCHf/x) and over four MPH on his slider (making it a very good pitcher according to PITCH f/x). So maybe that had to do with his improved season. He also used his two-seam fastball more.
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Post by jmei on Dec 7, 2012 11:43:58 GMT -5
There's a reason guys like Miller and Bard get shifted to the bullpen in the first place-- because (a) their mechanics make it difficult/impossible to maintain their release point across multiple innings and 100+ pitches and (b) their lack of command/control ensures inefficient pitch counts that result in their getting pulled after five innings in a starting role even when they're pitching well. Especially with guys like Bard and Miller who have failed multiple times in the rotation, it makes no sense to get too clever and ruin a perfectly good asset.
Morales might be worth trying in the rotation, though, considering he maintained his velocity in that role and his command didn't seem to suffer. Plus, Miller and Breslow should have the lefty spots in the bullpen locked down already.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 7, 2012 11:44:26 GMT -5
Despite Bard as a starter debacle, I look at Miller with his plus fastball and wipeout slider and see second coming of Big Unit. Cost of potentially elite starters is so high in terms of money or prospects, market inefficiency could be taking failed starters with plus stuff in mid 20's and turning them into starters after initial control problems are worked out in bullpen role for a couple of years. Poster child - Johan Santana. Will fail more often than not, but huge upside with chance to be #2/3 in a couple of years. Especially power lefties like Miller and Morales. Waste of time trotting out Aaron Cook's of the world as #5 starter. We need to build for next great team in 2015. I was one of the biggest "give Miller a chance to start" advocates here but I think he, like Bard, will only excel in the pen - unless of course Farrell can do a Vulcan mind meld to get them to repeat their successful deliveries for 7 innings/110 pitches an outing.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Dec 7, 2012 11:52:54 GMT -5
Despite Bard as a starter debacle, I look at Miller with his plus fastball and wipeout slider and see second coming of Big Unit. Cost of potentially elite starters is so high in terms of money or prospects, market inefficiency could be taking failed starters with plus stuff in mid 20's and turning them into starters after initial control problems are worked out in bullpen role for a couple of years. Poster child - Johan Santana.No. This is just wrong. Johan Santana was moved the the bullpen because the Twins Rule 5'ed him from the Astros when he hasn't pitched about A ball. He was 21 at the time. His situation was unique and he certainly isn't any kind of model for a failed starter getting things figured out in the bullpen.. As far as Andrew Miller starting again... really? It's almost 2013 and we're about to have this argument again?
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 7, 2012 12:03:59 GMT -5
As someone who has yet to jump off of the Roberto Petagine and Rudy Pemberton bandwagons, I sort of understand people who cling to the idea of Miller being a starter.
I feel bad for Miller, because the Tigers and Marlins botched his development. He was so good at UNC that it was almost like neither of those teams were willing to accept that he was a long way from a finished product. When he came to Boston, he made strides in Pawtucket under Sauveur - then his opt-out was approaching, the Red Sox needed help, so his recall became obvious.
Johan Santana is a terrible, terrible comparison though. By the time Santana was Miller's age, he was working on his second Cy Young Award - but that's a bit unfair, it really should have been his third. He had established himself as, without question, baseball's best pitcher. He had the best three year stretch of anyone since Pedro's peak.
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Post by pbgallag on Dec 7, 2012 12:57:07 GMT -5
Interesting thought, what if the Red Sox trade away Ellsbury and then sign Bourne, who seems more durable, has put up constant OBP around .350 (prototype leadoff hitter), and is not going to demand a ridiculous contract. Even more so, the CF market is more and more satisfied, after the Phillies decided to go with Revere. So you're saying trade Ellsbury because he wants $100M and then sign Bourn because he wants $100M? Makes no sense. Bourn, by the way, was atrocious in the 2H last year.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Dec 7, 2012 13:02:38 GMT -5
Bourn aka Carl Crawford 2.0 no thanks.
JBJ will be the better player pretty soon. He'll walk and play defense pretty good.
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Dec 7, 2012 13:29:25 GMT -5
Bourn aka Carl Crawford 2.0 no thanks. JBJ will be the better player pretty soon. He'll walk and play defense pretty good. I agree big time. I know the free agent figures being thrown around are crazy, but even before the 1st guy signed the numbers Bourn was looking for was ridiculous. For me, he has one and just one outstanding tool.....and that is his defense. Not one other skill is higher than slightly above average. He, in my opinion, is not a great lead-off hitter. I'm sure some crazy team will give him close to $15 million per year, but that is plain nuts!
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 7, 2012 13:35:25 GMT -5
Evan Drellich evandrellichGraham Godfrey to Red Sox from A's to complete Sandy Rosario deal
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Post by elguapo on Dec 7, 2012 13:52:27 GMT -5
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Post by slam761 on Dec 7, 2012 22:33:16 GMT -5
Does anyone else think Garrett Jones makes sense for the Sox? He has a career .852 OPS against righties and can play 1B, RF, and LF. A platoon of Jones and Gomes in LF would be pretty productive, and he can back up Napoli at first base when needed.
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