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Post by grandsalami on Oct 21, 2012 19:33:55 GMT -5
RT @nbcsn: BREAKING NEWS: Tuesday's Episode of "Costas Tonight" will feature interview w/ former redsox manager Bobby Valentine (10PM et)
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Post by bigpapismangosalsa on Oct 22, 2012 16:19:27 GMT -5
Acquiring a player like Lincecum is all in what you'd have to give up. Would I take the chance on him bouncing back - absolutely - but only if the cost makes sense.
His peripherals have been in a pretty steady decline since his age 24 and 25 seasons when he was likely the best pitcher on the planet.
That said, a one year commitment to that pitcher where the Giants pick up some salary I'd absolutely consider - again depending on whom we'd be giving up.
With all of that in mind, this year I want the Sox making trades for the best available talent that will be coming to the big leagues in late 2013 or early 2014. If you can trade Ellsbury for prospects like that you do it in a second - my opinion.
Regarding if he is or is not injury prone: I don't think his issues are chronic in nature at all, and they were both freak occurrences. However, I do think he is one of those players that wont step back on the field unless he is 100% healthy and has been that way for two weeks. That is not the player I want signed to the manner of deal he would command. Trade him now for the best value you can possibly get.
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Post by grandsalami on Oct 23, 2012 13:20:21 GMT -5
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Post by benfromma on Oct 23, 2012 14:02:34 GMT -5
I don't understand why we feel we need to make a 37 limited but good hitter happy. Why do we think that he will be healthy this year ? If he still productive year 2 it will be a surprise and it will end badly. He will say he is happy but by July he will be complaining about his contract. If he signed for 1yr( ok) and why do we need to set the market it is doubtful he would get 10 million in the open market.
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Post by mredsox89 on Oct 23, 2012 14:13:53 GMT -5
They don't have much to lose. It's not a long term commitment. They wont be near the luxury tax, and worst case, he's still likely to be better than a marginal bench player
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Post by sibbysisti on Oct 23, 2012 14:23:34 GMT -5
It is also good policy down the line, looking at David's retirement as a Red Sock. He could be of value to the organization in recruitment and public relations should he and his family decide to remain in the area.
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Post by elguapo on Oct 23, 2012 14:35:13 GMT -5
He's our best hitter, hands down, and Hamilton is the only other big bat out there. No brainer.
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Post by remember04 on Oct 23, 2012 14:58:04 GMT -5
Also we don't even know what the deal might be worth. We can't complain about the deal until we know all the specifics. Besides there's nothing we can replace him with that's better over all.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Oct 23, 2012 15:40:25 GMT -5
I don't understand why we feel we need to make a 37 limited but good hitter happy. Why do we think that he will be healthy this year ? If he still productive year 2 it will be a surprise and it will end badly. He will say he is happy but by July he will be complaining about his contract. If he signed for 1yr( ok) and why do we need to set the market it is doubtful he would get 10 million in the open market. Well I disagree with just about everything in your post, but that's ok since that's what the forum is for. We need to make him happy because he makes the lineup better. If the deal is reasonable and in-line with his past deals, it will probably be worth every penny, and perhaps by quite a bit. If his ridiculously good numbers do come down he may still be worth what they pay him. The Sox have lots of slack, he's a lifetime .928 OPS guy who exceeded that by 100 points last year, and he's a great clubhouse presence and a quote machine, even when every other word is unprintable. Given that the team's offense largely evaporated when he (and Middlebrooks) got hurt, this is necessary. Bat's like his don't grow on trees. It wouldn't surprise me if he outdoes Hamilton at the plate this upcoming year, and at what will probably be millions of dollars less. I'm not sure what you mean by limited, but it certainly isn't how I'd describe his hitting skills.
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Post by marrcus on Oct 23, 2012 15:54:41 GMT -5
The money is secondary., David now sees himself as two and done. I hope he can keep it together and not spend the winter celebrating his deal now that he isn't pressured into staying in shape year-to-year. He looked remarkable last season (until the inj) and I hope he can find the motivation to stay that way now that it's no longer about money.
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Post by mredsox89 on Oct 23, 2012 18:42:33 GMT -5
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Post by jioh on Oct 24, 2012 8:28:06 GMT -5
This is a horrible human being.
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Post by buffs4444 on Oct 24, 2012 8:37:09 GMT -5
Someone no longer associated with the team making statements whose only affect will most likely be to motivate Ortiz for the next 1-2 years. Honestly, this is a good thing....
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Post by sibbysisti on Oct 24, 2012 10:47:15 GMT -5
I don't understand why we feel we need to make a 37 limited but good hitter happy. Why do we think that he will be healthy this year ? If he still productive year 2 it will be a surprise and it will end badly. He will say he is happy but by July he will be complaining about his contract. If he signed for 1yr( ok) and why do we need to set the market it is doubtful he would get 10 million in the open market. Well I disagree with just about everything in your post, but that's ok since that's what the forum is for. We need to make him happy because he makes the lineup better. If the deal is reasonable and in-line with his past deals, it will probably be worth every penny, and perhaps by quite a bit. If his ridiculously good numbers do come down he may still be worth what they pay him. The Sox have lots of slack, he's a lifetime .928 OPS guy who exceeded that by 100 points last year, and he's a great clubhouse presence and a quote machine, even when every other word is unprintable. Given that the team's offense largely evaporated when he (and Middlebrooks) got hurt, this is necessary. Bat's like his don't grow on trees. It wouldn't surprise me if he outdoes Hamilton at the plate this upcoming year, and at what will probably be millions of dollars less. I'm not sure what you mean by limited, but it certainly isn't how I'd describe his hitting skills. I categorically reject your post. If bats don't grow on trees, where the heck do they come from?
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Post by Oregon Norm on Oct 24, 2012 12:01:09 GMT -5
I've been throwing those cliches around too loosely... again.
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Post by bighead on Oct 27, 2012 7:11:45 GMT -5
Glad that Big Papi is being signed. He had a good year pre-injury and seemingly was one of the positive influences in the clubhouse depending on what you are willing to believe coming from the press on the "toxicity" subject.
This brings to mind a potential FA signing. Ortiz' buddy Torii Hunter. Honestly I can't believe that I am advocating this but there is some solid rationale behind it IMO.
The Sox have a potential corner outfielder need. The Sox have a ton of payroll flexibility in a bad FA market. The Sox should avoid long term salary commitments for FAs in this market. The Sox would like to contend in the short term. The Sox, again depending on who you believe, have a potential image problem amongst players around the league.
I realize how old the guy is but if you sign a Pagan or an Upton or a Victorino you will be getting yourself into a multi year commitment for marginal talent (or production in Upton's case). At that age these guys are looking for a longer term contract and the market will provide that.
Hunter could give you some good production in RF and CF when Ellsbury is injured/traded for a couple years while the Sox develop OF bats and wait for a better FA buying opportunity and could eventually end up being a good bat off of the bench. Plus I think he could potentially do the Sox image some good.
Hey, it ain't a sexy signing but there really aren't any out there to be had this offseason. All of the high end FAs have flaws that make the long term commitment unattractive. The Sox want to be in the hunt but they should avoid making FA mistakes now more than ever.
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Post by raftsox on Oct 27, 2012 9:49:38 GMT -5
I remember advocating for signing Hunter back in September. He's a solid bat, good for a +.345wOBA with the patience that we desperately need. I don't think he should play CF or RF though since his defense has deteriorated in recent years, but considering there's a hole in LF for the next couple of seasons I'd be in favor of him playing there. It might actually do him some good to play half his games in Fenway's short left field.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 27, 2012 10:19:32 GMT -5
My guess is thar the Sox try to build a "competitive" team without sacrificing young talent.
I think the Sox will sign Torri Hunter for two years (a good positive clubhouse guy from what I've read).
I think they'll deal for a LH hiiting 1b - with Davis a possibility, but Justin Morneau more likely.
I think they'll sign a stop-gap CF like Pagan and deal Ellsbury for Derek Holland. I think they'll bring in some veteran SS (like John McDonald) to "challenge" Iglesias, but ultimately the job will fall to Iglesias. I also think they'll bring in a veteran catcher (somebody like Torrealba) because I think they'll deal Salty and take their chances with Lavarnway.
The important thing is they'll preserve their system in the hopes that De La Rosa, Barnes, Webster, Bradley, and Bogaerts could be ready by the end of the season to contribute and become a big part of the 2014 Red Sox and beyond - the real team Ben is trying to construct.
2013 will be a "bridge" year to try to get to this point.
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Post by sibbysisti on Oct 27, 2012 10:40:23 GMT -5
Interesting ideas. The Ellsbury for Holland trade idea was actually mentioned by Scott Lauber of the Boston Herald earlier this month. This was pure speculation on his part.
To be sure, there are other trade scenarios involving Ellsbury which will undoubtedly surface in the coming months.
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,826
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Post by steveofbradenton on Oct 27, 2012 10:49:04 GMT -5
My guess is thar the Sox try to build a "competitive" team without sacrificing young talent. I think the Sox will sign Torri Hunter for two years (a good positive clubhouse guy from what I've read). I think they'll deal for a LH hiiting 1b - with Davis a possibility, but Justin Morneau more likely. I think they'll sign a stop-gap CF like Pagan and deal Ellsbury for Derek Holland. I think they'll bring in some veteran SS (like John McDonald) to "challenge" Iglesias, but ultimately the job will fall to Iglesias. I also think they'll bring in a veteran catcher (somebody like Torrealba) because I think they'll deal Salty and take their chances with Lavarnway. The important thing is they'll preserve their system in the hopes that De La Rosa, Barnes, Webster, Bradley, and Bogaerts could be ready by the end of the season to contribute and become a big part of the 2014 Red Sox and beyond - the real team Ben is trying to construct. 2013 will be a "bridge" year to try to get to this point. I like your thought process. Hunter would make solid sense on a 2-year contract. Definitely a good guy! I'd like them to also add a free-agent starter (or two). For me Jackson and, now, Lohse will be looking for 3 to 4 years. Doubt the Sox are interested in going 3 plus. Sign instead someone like McCarthy, Haren, or Marcum to a 2-year (at best) contract. I do believe Morneau is a solid target even though I like Morales a little more for first base. We should do nothing that "blocks" our kids' progress.
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Post by sibbysisti on Oct 27, 2012 11:14:02 GMT -5
My guess is thar the Sox try to build a "competitive" team without sacrificing young talent. I think the Sox will sign Torri Hunter for two years (a good positive clubhouse guy from what I've read). I think they'll deal for a LH hiiting 1b - with Davis a possibility, but Justin Morneau more likely. I think they'll sign a stop-gap CF like Pagan and deal Ellsbury for Derek Holland. I think they'll bring in some veteran SS (like John McDonald) to "challenge" Iglesias, but ultimately the job will fall to Iglesias. I also think they'll bring in a veteran catcher (somebody like Torrealba) because I think they'll deal Salty and take their chances with Lavarnway. The important thing is they'll preserve their system in the hopes that De La Rosa, Barnes, Webster, Bradley, and Bogaerts could be ready by the end of the season to contribute and become a big part of the 2014 Red Sox and beyond - the real team Ben is trying to construct. 2013 will be a "bridge" year to try to get to this point. I like your thought process. Hunter would make solid sense on a 2-year contract. Definitely a good guy! I'd like them to also add a free-agent starter (or two). For me Jackson and, now, Lohse will be looking for 3 to 4 years. Doubt the Sox are interested in going 3 plus. Sign instead someone like McCarthy, Haren, or Marcum to a 2-year (at best) contract. I do believe Morneau is a solid target even though I like Morales a little more for first base. We should do nothing that "blocks" our kids' progress. ..and so, IMO, we should see what Morales, Webster and Rubby can give us. Agree on Torii and Ike/Mourneau.
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Post by marrcus on Oct 31, 2012 15:09:51 GMT -5
Ross not returning seems to be heating up. Merloni --today --didn't say no, but he didn't seem optimistic either. It wouldn't be a big loss, but I want him back given the state of the OF and what's available.
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Post by remember04 on Oct 31, 2012 16:35:42 GMT -5
Ross not returning seems to be heating up. Merloni --today --didn't say no, but he didn't seem optimistic either. It wouldn't be a big loss, but I want him back given the state of the OF and what's available. hmm. Does mean the trade plot thickens or that they more faith in the likes of Sweeney and Kalish than they probably should?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 31, 2012 16:42:45 GMT -5
hmm. Does mean the trade plot thickens or that they more faith in the likes of Sweeney and Kalish than they probably should? Maybe they'd like to see what they can get out of Kalish (if he ever stays healthy). Doubt they're that interested in seeing what Sweeney can do full-time. He's a good #4 OF.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 1, 2012 7:39:11 GMT -5
hmm. Does mean the trade plot thickens or that they more faith in the likes of Sweeney and Kalish than they probably should? It probably just means they don't want to sign a bad contract with Ross.
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