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Discussion of 2014 and 2015 pitching rotations
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Post by Guidas on Sept 28, 2014 17:33:59 GMT -5
Lester is not coming back to boston. The cubs and Yankees will slug it out for him. Our best move is to sign shields, four years if need be, and then trade for either hamel, darvish, or sale. Some owner may be stupid enough to give Shields five. Also, remind me why Texas or Chicago would trade a cost controlled #1 starter? Unless you're willing to give up Bogaerts, Betts, Swihart, Rodriguez and one more top 10 guy.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Sept 28, 2014 18:00:08 GMT -5
Lester is not coming back to boston. The cubs and Yankees will slug it out for him. Our best move is to sign shields, four years if need be, and then trade for either hamel, darvish, or sale. Some owner may be stupid enough to give Shields five. Also, remind me why Texas or Chicago would trade a cost controlled #1 starter? Unless you're willing to give up Bogaerts, Betts, Swihart, Rodriguez and one more top 10 guy. Not implying trading anyone for anything, but let me point something out here that has bee proven since July.. Boston has found an adequate catcher in Vazquez. He's A-1 defensively. Might hit, sure, but IF they need to trade some one, I don't hink it will be Betts, or Bogaerts 1st, but Swihart. The league is still far short on catching anf the Sox have found someone who can at least handle the pitching staff and stop the running game. Imagine they would rather move Swihart over betts, or Bogaerts if they found the right deal for any pitcher if anyone really thinks about it and then throwa in a couple of the various SP they have.. A coyle (just saying, not implying anything) for a known front end pitcher. Myself? I'd prefer the Sox approach the Marlins, who have mentioned numerous times and just acquired Cosart, but have gotten fernandez back by ST. That staff will have Koehler, Eovaldi, Fernandeaz, Alvarez, Cosart and they will be trying to find a spot for rookie Anthony DeSclafini... I'd take any one of those front 5 as a #2 in the Sox rotation... Wish Sox fans (and maybe FO) would get off the try to grab Stanton junk and just think of trying to nab one of those outstanding kid starters they have. Marlins have 2b issues, 1b issues. That means a deal could start out with Shaw and Coyle right off. Salty was a dredge last year after April.. AWFUL.. If Boston was to give up Swihart, the cost might be a tad more than one of the SP for sure, but you get the point.. SP deal solved and under control for 3+ years (Eovaldi is 3Y) all are under control for years.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 28, 2014 18:46:55 GMT -5
Elias Sports Bureau ?@eliassports 11m
Clay Buchholz is 1st @mlb pitcher to finish a season w/ an ERA 3x as high as the previous season's (1.74/5.34). Min: 100 inn. each season
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Post by larrycook on Sept 28, 2014 19:40:12 GMT -5
Lester is not coming back to boston. The cubs and Yankees will slug it out for him. Our best move is to sign shields, four years if need be, and then trade for either hamel, darvish, or sale. Some owner may be stupid enough to give Shields five. Also, remind me why Texas or Chicago would trade a cost controlled #1 starter? Unless you're willing to give up Bogaerts, Betts, Swihart, Rodriguez and one more top 10 guy. Philly, Chicago and Texas all need major help. We can provide that. I only see 2 untouchables - bogaerts and betts. Everything else is in play. All we have to do is find the right combination.
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Post by iakovos11 on Sept 28, 2014 19:44:57 GMT -5
And without either of those guys, none of your fantasy guys are walking through that door. People keep telling you this, but you keep ignoring it
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Post by larrycook on Sept 28, 2014 20:13:54 GMT -5
And without either of those guys, none of your fantasy guys are walking through that door. People keep telling you this, but you keep ignoring it Everybody has a price and there is a price for everybody. It's cherrington's job to put the pieces together to make this work.
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Post by iakovos11 on Sept 28, 2014 20:30:49 GMT -5
Hell, why settle for those guys, then. Trout or bust.
I mean seriously? Not everyone has a price, and even if they do, you have to be able to meet that price. We aren't meeting the price for TOP talent while holding back Betts and Bogaerts.
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Post by larrycook on Sept 28, 2014 22:33:14 GMT -5
Angels are a playoff team. No real reason for them to return cherrington's phone call.
But Philly , Texas and Chicago all have plenty of reason to want to chat with us.
Maybe they don't go for the deal. Maybe they have unrealistic value attached to their aces. Or Maybe they want to improve so bad they are willing to chat and throw some names around.
Bottom line is - what does it hurt to try. If they say no, we move on to the next target. But if they say yes..... How sweet is that.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 28, 2014 23:42:29 GMT -5
What does Texas need that they're giving up Darvish for?
Their season went south because they were decimated by injury. They have depth in the middle infield to trade from (it'd be nuts for them to keep all three of Andrus-Profar-Odor around next year, especially w/ Sardinas coming up behind). I'm not seeing why they'd trade Darvish.
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Post by bluechip on Sept 28, 2014 23:48:29 GMT -5
Lester is not coming back to boston. The cubs and Yankees will slug it out for him. Our best move is to sign shields, four years if need be, and then trade for either hamel, darvish, or sale. Some owner may be stupid enough to give Shields five. Also, remind me why Texas or Chicago would trade a cost controlled #1 starter? Unless you're willing to give up Bogaerts, Betts, Swihart, Rodriguez and one more top 10 guy. There have been rumors about Chris Sale being available for at least a year now. Not saying it happens, or the price, but those rumors keep coming up.
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Post by greenmonsterwhalers on Sept 28, 2014 23:54:05 GMT -5
I don't think Betts is untouchable. We already have a second baseman and lots of outfielders. He's more valuable to another team because he can play second base for them and a second baseman is worth more than an outfielder. Betts definitely has a ton of value. He's one of the few Red Sox youngsters who has had fairly consistent success in the majors this year, albeit in a small sample size. Sure, we would want to make sure we'd be getting a ton for a package that includes him (Stanton, Sale, etc.), but we already have good players at the positions he plays, so to me he isn't untouchable.
With the emergence of Vazquez, I don't think Swihart is untouchable either which is great news for the Red Sox because Swihart in addition to Betts gives us two top-notch prospects who have major value. As for Owens, it depends on what the Red Sox think he will be. I've heard nothing but rave reviews of Owens, yet Soxprospects projects him as a "a high end third starter on a first-division team". If he isn't projected to be a #1 or #2, he's tradeable. If he is a #1 or #2, I'd try my best to keep him. I've heard so many good things from this site and other writers that it makes me wonder whether most people/teams only project him to be a #3.
To me, Xander is the only untouchable (unless you think Owens, Eduardo Rodriguez, or Barnes can be a #1 or #2). He's young and talented but just as importantly, we don't have a reliable replacement for him and it is difficult to find a good shortstop. Marrero may end up being a good overall shortstop, but it's still unclear how much he can hit. I also think Bradley Jr. should get a mention in the untouchable conversation. I'm not saying he is untouchable, but he's one of the guys I would really want to keep. His defense is incredible and let's remember that he should have been in Triple-A this year, so it's still very possible he could be the good hitter he was projected to be coming into this season.
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Post by greenmonsterwhalers on Sept 29, 2014 0:09:27 GMT -5
It's also worth noting that while the Red Sox have a bunch of young, MLB-ready arms (Workman, Ranaudo, De La Rosa, Webster, and even Joe Kelly isn't entirely a sure bet) and they have an absolutely stacked rotation at Triple-A, it doesn't seem like there will be many good prospects at Double-A next year. It's just worth noting so we remember that at some point in the fairly near future the farm system may be a bit light at the top level.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Sept 29, 2014 17:45:06 GMT -5
If Werner's statement's on WeEI are even partially true.. The rumored 4/70m offer during ST to lester probably wasn't even enough to get Lester's side to negotiate with a counter offer. Have to wonder what would have/could have happened in ST had Cherington put forth a really serious offer during ST to begin with, rather than that joke of an offer. Lester offer
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 29, 2014 17:51:31 GMT -5
If Werner's statement's on WeEI are even partially true.. The rumored 4/70m offer during ST to lester probably wasn't even enough to get Lester's side to negotiate with a counter offer. Have to wonder what would have/could have happened in ST had Cherington put forth a really serious offer during ST to begin with, rather than that joke of an offer. Lester offerWhat if we never sold Babe Ruth to the Yankees? The Red Sox probably weren't that interested in paying today's prices after a Cy Young finalist season at the time of the offer. He could have just as easily had a bad season and be worth 4/70 right now. His track record in previous seasons was really up and down.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Sept 29, 2014 21:51:06 GMT -5
What does Texas need that they're giving up Darvish for? Their season went south because they were decimated by injury. They have depth in the middle infield to trade from (it'd be nuts for them to keep all three of Andrus-Profar-Odor around next year, especially w/ Sardinas coming up behind). I'm not seeing why they'd trade Darvish. I'd certainly be willing to look at someone like Andrus in the right deal, and I think they are not thrilled with his salary at this point and have ready replacements. A deal is available. Slide Xander over to 3rd and we are positioned extremely well. That helps the pitching staff a lot right there.
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Post by larrycook on Sept 29, 2014 22:44:02 GMT -5
We sign shields in the offseason. I am willing a give him a fourth year if need be.
Then we entice philly to part with hamels. Maybe for de la rosa, ranaudo, Margot and Escobar?
Add in a hopefully healthy Buchholz and a full year from Kelly plus the continued development - confidence of Webster and we have a rotation capable of winning next season.
Plus we still have Owens, Johnson, Barnes, Rodriguez and workman who can fill in and start if needed when Buchholz breaks down half way through the year.
The wild card is could we get sale for less than what we give up for hamels?
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 29, 2014 23:41:36 GMT -5
Then we entice philly to part with hamels. Maybe for de la rosa, ranaudo, Margot and Escobar? This trade is completely bonkers because Philly was reported unwillingly to part with Hamels for anything less than a way bigger package than this one. However, Hamels (yes, I'll say it again) is my favorite pitcher in the MLB, so I love any plan for 2015 that starts with him in a Red Sox uniform.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Sept 30, 2014 0:18:09 GMT -5
Then we entice philly to part with hamels. Maybe for de la rosa, ranaudo, Margot and Escobar? This trade is completely bonkers because Philly was reported unwillingly to part with Hamels for anything less than a way bigger package than this one. However, Hamels (yes, I'll say it again) is my favorite pitcher in the MLB, so I love any plan for 2015 that starts with him in a Red Sox uniform. Old friend of mine from work years ago was a Nascar fan.. Had this saying on impossible things.. "Trophy ain't worth the chase". That saying fits all the resources wasted on attempting to get Hamels from Philly, as well as Stanton from Miami this winter.. it just ain't gonna happen.. Stop wasting time, as well as resources on fools endeavors there... Go ahead and look at SP that **might** be able to be had, rather than fantasy SP who not only would cost every top kid the team has, but have a GM who changes his mind(Amaro) every 15 seconds. Why on earth also would Miami wish to trade away the best ball player on the planet when they control him for 3 more years? he hasn't gotten expensive yet and Loria has buddied up to him! Remember Ramirez? He did the same thing, gave him a huge neck chain with his number (solid gold) before the mega deal. I expect Stanton and Loria to get together on a contract, probably not fernandez, as a Boras client, but that's an issue for 2-3y down the road. Spend the time thinking/working on players the team has a logical shot at. Imagine the Sox FO is.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 30, 2014 9:47:11 GMT -5
Here you go secret handshake deal truthers - is this enough for you to finally admit that any black bag, wink-wink agreement is just sportswriter/fan fueled dreamcast?
?@nickcafardo 9m9 minutes ago Jon Lester's Newton, Ma home is up for sale.
Dude is not planning on coming back.
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Post by awall on Sept 30, 2014 10:59:23 GMT -5
He's probably just planning to upgrade, since he's about to get even more rich. right?
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Post by iakovos11 on Sept 30, 2014 10:59:49 GMT -5
Subterfuge only
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Post by kman22 on Sept 30, 2014 18:47:29 GMT -5
Here you go secret handshake deal truthers - is this enough for you to finally admit that any black bag, wink-wink agreement is just sportswriter/fan fueled dreamcast? ?@nickcafardo 9m9 minutes ago Jon Lester's Newton, Ma home is up for sale. Dude is not planning on coming back. Was his decision not to come back mentioned in the listing?
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Post by grandsalami on Sept 30, 2014 19:55:17 GMT -5
Here you go secret handshake deal truthers - is this enough for you to finally admit that any black bag, wink-wink agreement is just sportswriter/fan fueled dreamcast? ?@nickcafardo 9m9 minutes ago Jon Lester's Newton, Ma home is up for sale. Dude is not planning on coming back. Dan Roche ?@rochiewbz 4s5 seconds ago Jon Lester was going to sell his Newton, MA house this offseason whether he re-signed with #RedSox or not So it does not mean shiz that his house is for sale
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Sept 30, 2014 20:15:51 GMT -5
But can we get an update on where Cliff Lee's plane is headed?
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Post by redsox1534 on Sept 30, 2014 20:21:04 GMT -5
I hope we resign Lester ill be really upset if we dont make a strong run. I dont see us going after Sherzer unless his price ends up much lower then expected. Think We acquire a SP in a trade and sign one. Shields on three years is a logical one. Ervin Santana is another guy id be interested in on a 3 year deal.... lets say about 45 mill. Trade candidates go from Hamels to Sale, to Latos and Cueto and ones people dont talk about but I think could become trade options depending on how some dominoes fall. Anibal Sanchez, David Price, Jeff Samarjada. A's imo are gonna blow up that team this offseason or next thats gut feeling, by looking at the roster, there mo and farm system I feel its gonna get a reboot in the next 14 months. If they win the WS it could start this offseason. Samrjada is a great trade chip to start a rebuild. Id be interested. How about Anibal Sanchez, well Price or Sherezer is getting big money from Detriot and they have Porcello and 20 mill a year of wasted money on Justin Verlander. Now wether they sign both of Sherzer and or Price doesnt matter to me I think they have anuff talent in the rotation to justify clearing salary and replacing Sanchez with a cheaper player and by doing so acquiring some kind of talented package for him. I dont like how much money and years are left on his deal but if they can cover some of the money id be in also the package would have to something I think is to good to not do because i am worried about the mans health but I love how good he is when healthy. I think Price could get delt if Sherzer is back and they are offered a great deal for him. Offering a great deal is something we can do. How about Craig, Coyle, Ranuado, Joe Kelly. Or Craig, Coyle, Barnes and
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