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Draft order (Red Sox will pick #7)
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Post by bighead on Sept 6, 2012 7:18:55 GMT -5
Strangely enough, I am checking the box scores and standings more now than any point in the season...
With the schedule the rest of the way looking like this:
DATE OPPONENT Fri, Sep 7 vs Toronto Sat, Sep 8 vs Toronto Sun, Sep 9 vs Toronto Tue, Sep 11 vs NY Yankees Wed, Sep 12 vs NY Yankees Thu, Sep 13 vs NY Yankees Fri, Sep 14 @ Toronto Sat, Sep 15 @ Toronto Sun, Sep 16 @ Toronto Mon, Sep 17 @ Tampa Bay Tue, Sep 18 @ Tampa Bay Wed, Sep 19 @ Tampa Bay Thu, Sep 20 @ Tampa Bay Fri, Sep 21 vs Baltimore Sat, Sep 22 vs Baltimore Sun, Sep 23 vs Baltimore Tue, Sep 25 vs Tampa Bay Wed, Sep 26 vs Tampa Bay Fri, Sep 28 @ Baltimore Sat, Sep 29 @ Baltimore Sun, Sep 30 @ Baltimore Mon, Oct 1 @ NY Yankees Tue, Oct 2 @ NY Yankees Wed, Oct 3 @ NY Yankees
and the Sox currently in position to draft 10th, realistically where do people think we will end up picking and what future draftees should they be considering to take in that spot?
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Post by tjb21 on Sept 6, 2012 8:20:06 GMT -5
I think we'll finish with the 6th pick. We have a really bad lineup with little to no firepower and our pitching problems have been well documented.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Sept 6, 2012 8:38:21 GMT -5
Good idea. Better to have it's own thread than talk about it in the series discussion. I thought we were going to stay ahead of Toronto. Not looking like it now. I think 8-16 over these last 24 games would be optomostic. That should keep us behind SD. Toronto should pass us. KC and Miami could pass us too. Leaving us 6th behind; Houston, Chicago, Colorado, Minnesota and Cleveland. Pretty sure we get below that 9th pick that the Pirates have.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Sept 6, 2012 10:14:43 GMT -5
I hijacked Amfox's work on the standing and placed them in here.
#6 MIA -- (wins tiebreaker with any teams other than SEA/SD/KC based on 2011 record) #7 KC 1.5 GB (wins tiebreaker with any other team other than SEA (tied with SD) based on 2011 record) #8 TOR 1.5 GB #9 PIT (compensation pick due to failure to sign Mark Appel) #10 BOS 2.5 GB #11 SD 3.5 GB (wins tiebreaker with any team other than SEA (tied with KC) based on 2011 record) #12 NYM 5.0 GB #13 PHI 6.0 GB (loses tiebreaker with any team based on 2011 record) #14 SEA 6.5 GB (wins tiebreaker with any team based on 2011 record) #15 ARI 7.5 GB #16 MIL 7.5 GB (loses tiebreaker with any team other than PHI based on 2011 record)
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Post by remember04 on Sept 6, 2012 10:54:39 GMT -5
I see us picking a college pitcher unless somebody unexpected drops and possibly even if one does. The Appel thing from last year raises some questions.
1. Does he drop to us? 2. What's he looking for money wise this time around? 3. Do the sox think he's worth it?
He dropped far enough last year so who knows about this year. He's a senior with a lot less leverage but he seems like a pig headed moron so he could be asking for more money this year somehow. He is a Boras client. Personally I wouldn't mind one of the HS outfielders if they drop and we think we can sign them but I don't see that happening.
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Post by stevedillard on Sept 6, 2012 11:01:14 GMT -5
Amfox's prior post: Summary of potential 2013 top draftees
HS bats: OF Austin Meadows (Grayson HS, Georgia) OF Clint Frazier (Loganville HS, Georgia) OF Ryan Boldt (Red Wing HS, Minnesota) OF Justin Williams (Terrebonne HS, Louisiana) OF/1B Dominic Smith (Junipero Serra HS, California) OF/LHP Trey Ball (New Castle HS, Indiana) SS Oscar Mercado (Gaither HS, Florida) C Reese McGuire (Kentwood HS, Washington)
HS arms: RHP Kohl Stewart (St. Pius HS, Texas) RHP Brett Morales (King HS, Florida) RHP Chris Oakley (St. Augustine Prep HS, New Jersey) LHP Robert Kaminsky (St. Joseph Regional HS, New Jersey) LHP Stephen Gonsalves (Cathedral Catholic HS, California)
College bats: Stanford JR OF Austin Wilson Fresno State JR OF Aaron Judge San Diego JR OF/3B Kris Bryant North Carolina JR 3B Colin Moran
College arms: Stanford SR RHP Mark Appel Arkansas JR RHP Ryne Stanek Florida JR RHP Karsten Whitson Indiana State JR LHP Sean Manaea Florida JR RHP Jonathan Crawford Mississippi JR RHP Bobby Wahl Gonzaga JR LHP Marco Gonzales Vanderbilt JR LHP Kevin Ziomek San Diego JR RHP Dylan Covey Arizona State JR RHP Trevor Williams Cal State Fullerton JR OF/RHP Michael Lorenzen _______________________________________________
Never seen any, but here seems to be a compilation of the top kids
1.Mark Appel, RHP, Stanford 2.Austin Meadows, OF, Grayson HS (GA) 3.Clinton Hollon, RHP, Woodford County HS (KY) 4.Jeremy Martinez, C, Mater Dei HS (CA) 5.Ryne Stanek, RHP, Arkansas 6.Kris Bryant, 3B, San Diego 7.Sean Manaea, LHP, Indiana State 8.Stephen Gonsalves, LHP, Cathedral Catholic HS (CA) 9.Austin Wilson, OF, Stanford 10.Karsten Whitson, RHP, Florida Oscar Mercado, SS, Gaither HS (FL) Bobby Wahl, RHP, Ole Miss Clint Frazier, OF, Loganville, GA Colin Moran, 3B, North Carolina William Abreu, OF, Mater Academy (FL) Keegan Thompson, RHP, Cullman HS, (AL) Jonah Wesely, LHP, Tracy HS (CA) Adam Plutko, RHP, UCLA Zach Collins, C, American Heritage HS (FL) Jordan Sheffield, RHP, Tullahoma HS (TN) Dominic Ficociello, 1B, Arkansas Chris Okey, C, Eustis HS (FL) Justin Williams, OF, Terrebonne HS (LA) Trey Ball, LHP, New Castle Chrysler HS (IN) Dominic Smith, OF/1B, Serra HS (CA) Trevor Clifton, RHP, Heritage HS (TN) Robert Kaminsky, LHP, St.Joseph NJ Chris Rivera, SS, El Dorado HS (CA) Trevor Williams, RHP, Arizona State Cavan Biggio, 2b, St.Thomas TX Adam Plutko, RHP, UCLA Matt Vogel, RHP, Medford HS (NY) Jonathon Crawford, RHP, Florida Terry McClure, OF, Thomas Hatch, RHP, Jenks HS (OK) Ryan Tellez, 1B, Elk Grove HS (CA) Reese McGuire, C, Kentwood WA John Kilichowski, LHP, Jesuit HS (FL)
bolded the Top 10 where we seem to be assured of being. Don't know which of those are "locks" (for example, everyone seems to love Frazer, while Whitson is a question mark.
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Post by bentossaurus on Sept 6, 2012 11:50:30 GMT -5
Going below Toronto and Pittsburgh's comp pick is a must. Everything on top of that is gravy.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Sept 6, 2012 11:56:29 GMT -5
We can conceivably go down to #6 if we stink enough. Is there a 9 game west coast swing out there? I'm up for it.
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Post by remember04 on Sept 6, 2012 12:05:11 GMT -5
Please god no Karsten Whitson and Frazier is one of the HS outfielders I'd like to drop but don't think the sox would draft even if he did.....and then you'd have to put up with me screaming for a whille. Whitson has too much of an injury history and dropped velocity to to go before the 20's imo.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Sept 6, 2012 14:15:01 GMT -5
I would really love Clint Frazier but we would need to get a top 6/7 pick for that. Even then I predict he'll be in contention for the top pick by next year.
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Post by sibbysisti on Sept 6, 2012 14:54:28 GMT -5
Watching the team, I can't help cheering for it to win. But, on a positive side, I'm not crushed by a loss, considering the fact that we haven' drafted this high in years. I check the ESPN 2013 draft order after every game to see where we fall.
I believe the draft order also applies to Rule 5 selections. So the Sox might find a diamond in the rough.
The remaining schedule, heavy with East opponents, seems to favor a slide into a better draft position.
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Post by GyIantosca on Sept 6, 2012 15:43:05 GMT -5
For once I want to pick ahead of Toronto and get them back. They make a mockery of the draft. Always having extra picks every year because they sign some guys and not sign others. Tampa was in my doghouse but not no more. They are too good now. They really pushed things that year they had like 10 picks in the 1st 2 rounds. Talk about taking advantage of a situation. Too me that's part of the reason the MLB closed that loophole to getting extra picks. No other team was so greedy as them that year. I personally think it rubbed a lot of teams the wrong way especially when they are getting revenue sharing on top of that. One other thing Karma is catching Miami ,all those years keeping the revenue sharing spending nothing and crying poor mouth. Then they sucker there politicians down there to get a state of the art facility and Jeffery Loria spends some money on a coach and players and it all goes in the toilet.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 6, 2012 21:00:57 GMT -5
I believe the draft order also applies to Rule 5 selections. So the Sox might find a diamond in the rough. FWIW, I don't think a useful major leaguer has been selected in the Rule 5 draft since they changed the rules in 2006 to add a year of control. Although there were a few in 2006 (I'm not sure if the new rules applied that year) in Hamilton (extremely extenuating circumstances), Soria and Alfredo Simon, the only guy on lists since that I even recognize as having stuck is Everth Cabrera in 2008.
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Post by sibbysisti on Sept 6, 2012 21:34:37 GMT -5
The "diamond in the rough" I was referring to is a player such as Ivan Nova. He was selected in the Rule 5 but later returned to the Yankees. He has had some success in the NY rotation.
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Post by jeremynofakerbaker on Sept 7, 2012 3:10:01 GMT -5
theres a ton of talent i attend the cape cod league games every summer here's the guys i really like sean manea the lefty out of indiana state, hes throws hard from left side tall frame room to fill out, thus could add more velocity to his mid 90s heat. really sharpe slider with nice bite to it as well. theres one negative he seems to have trouble repeating his delivery but thats something easily corrected with a good coach
my 2 favorite hitters are
austen wilson RF stanford saw him 4 games this summer with harwich kid has all the tools you want. if i had to compare him to someone id say larry walker. he has well above average power and well above average arm. limited range because of his but hes very athletic
colin moran 3b unc. got to see alot of him over last 2 summers with bourne. hes got a great glove and arm at 3b. he hits lefties great (hes a lefty bat) he uses whole field, doesnt get pull happy either. hes pretty quick on the bases and a smart baseball iq during bp ive noticed hes always asking questions and seems like a coach-able kid
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Post by jeremynofakerbaker on Sept 7, 2012 3:11:35 GMT -5
also please no whitson or ziomek not high on either of them
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Post by futurefenwaystars on Sept 7, 2012 13:10:49 GMT -5
I'll mention again a few players that I previously discussed in the old forum:
Interesting that Amfox included Michael Lorenzen under College arms rather than college bats.
I had tweeted BA's Aaron Fitt about whether he was a better position prospect or a better pitching prospect, and he responded:
"@fenwaystarcards He was 95-97 every time I saw him last year, so there are some who like him on mound. But so many CF tools, start him there"
I am also intrigued by Aaron Judge and saw him play on the Cape this summer. Very strong and athletic, but he is so tall for a position prospect. I will be interested to see how is is able to adjust to more advanced pitching that can take advantage of spots where it will be tough for him to get wood on the ball.
LSU Jr. Jacoby Jones- Versatile athlete who has played the middle infield and centerfield, Jones is a toolsy prospect with developing power. I think that he has the potential to sky-rocket up draft boards after a solid performance on the Cape and the opportunity to turn heads this spring.
Stanford Jr. Brian Ragira- A first basemen with enough athleticism to play elsewhere, Ragira has good power and can hit.
Arkansas Jr. Dominic Ficociello- A switch-hitting first basemen for Arkansas, Ficociello played some third base for Orleans this summer on the Cape. Ficociello is very athletic with room to fill-out and tap into some power. Definitely a player to watch this season.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 7, 2012 14:28:54 GMT -5
The "diamond in the rough" I was referring to is a player such as Ivan Nova. He was selected in the Rule 5 but later returned to the Yankees. He has had some success in the NY rotation. Right, but the "diamond in the rough" has to be good enough to stick on an MLB roster all season right now (excepting, of course, using the old DL shenanigans, a la Adam Stern and Lenny Dinardo), and Nova, at the time, wasn't.
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Post by sibbysisti on Sept 7, 2012 15:03:16 GMT -5
The Padres saw a zircon instead of a diamond and returned him, a decision, no doubt, they regret. It does not change the fact that diamonds can be found in the Rule 5 despite changes in the rules. What the team does with its prospect is another story.
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Post by James Dunne on Sept 7, 2012 15:24:14 GMT -5
The Padres saw a zircon instead of a diamond and returned him, a decision, no doubt, they regret. It does not change the fact that diamonds can be found in the Rule 5 despite changes in the rules. What the team does with its prospect is another story. He wasn't good enough to stick on the Padres at the time, though. Not sure he'd be where he is now if he'd lost that year of development with the Padres playing roster games to keep him active. It's not like they returned him to the Yankees and he was an immediate contributor - it took him another 15 months to make it to the majors.
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Post by sibbysisti on Sept 7, 2012 15:36:52 GMT -5
That's why diamonds take time to be polished into finished products. Pads didn't have the patience.
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Post by James Dunne on Sept 7, 2012 16:14:35 GMT -5
The point that Chris and I are trying to make is that It's not just patience. Nova would've had to stay on the major league roster. He would've been facing hitters that he was not yet ready to get out. He would not have met the developmental steps that he did in the minor leagues, which allowed him to later be a major league pitcher. Saying that he'd be the same pitcher if he'd stayed in the major leagues during that development time leads to the conclusion that development really isn't all that important, which I disagree with totally. Nova would be a worse pitcher than he is right now if he hadn't developed in Double-A and Triple-A in 2009 and 2010.
Also, there might be some anti-Yankee bias in this statement, but if Ivan Nova was on the Padres, he would have about the same reputation as Clayton Richard. Nova's pretty ok as rotation filler (and he looks especially appealing when a team has gotten pitching like the Red Sox have the last two years), but as he is he's not the sort of talent a team needs to bend over backwards to make sure it secures.
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Post by chavopepe2 on Sept 7, 2012 16:53:58 GMT -5
And Ivan Nova was picked 20th in the rule 5 draft, so even if he is the one example of a diamond in the rough (which he's not for all the reason above), it still doesn't show that having a higher pick will help the Red Sox find a gem.
The rule 5 draft as it is currently constructed is useless.
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Post by sibbysisti on Sept 7, 2012 17:45:14 GMT -5
My comments were directed at Chris Hatfield's statement that he doesn't think a useful ML player has been selected in the Rule 5 draft since they changed the rules in 2006....
Whatever happened after San Diego picked Nova in 2008 doesn't change the fact that he turned out to be an effective ML player who was selected in Rule 5.
Nova was picked in the 2008 draft, after the rules were changed.
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Post by remember04 on Sept 7, 2012 17:51:18 GMT -5
I miss the old days when we would argue of Lavarnways worth because he went to Yale.
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