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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 28, 2017 14:07:17 GMT -5
I think having a chance to be a starter, which won't be an issue for any teams, AND the chance to hit the other days will be a major selling point to him. A team has to have that type of opening - and yes this is speculation on my part because nobody else knows what he'd going to do. I think there's a good consensus that he can step into the rotation and be a front-line starter, but there's a lot of questions about how productive a hitter he is going to be. I'm sure he'd be a great hitter - for a pitcher, but the question is would he be a good enough hitter to be the DH? Is he good enough to dislodge Hanley if Hanley is healthy? Some might consider this a good thing, but I think getting Ohtani takes them out of the JD Martinez sweepstakes. This would push the Red Sox into signing Eric Hosmer, or Carlos Santana, or less likely a lesser talent at 1b. iMO. An Ohtani-Hanley/Brentz "platoon" at DH + Ohtani in the Rotation + returns and salary relief from trading Porcello + Santana at 1B on a reasonable short term contract > an unreasonable long term $200M contract for my former favorite, JDM. It's a reasonable position to take. It depends upon risk vs certainly, too, though. It's certainly risky to give JD Martinez huge $, but his offensive performance for 2018 and 2019 is a lot less risky than Santana and an Ohtani/Hanley platoon in my opinion. I think the Red Sox need an upper echelon hitter in the middle of their lineup. I think they need somebody capable of hitting 30 - 45 homers with a strong BA and OBP as well. I think it takes pressure off of Betts to be "the guy". I thought he was pressing a bit at times. Honestly I think it's more likely the Sox sign Martinez (or less likely deal for Stanton) than sign Ohtani - I really don't think he's headed to Boston as much as I'd like him to be.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 28, 2017 14:13:46 GMT -5
iMO. An Ohtani-Hanley/Brentz "platoon" at DH + Ohtani in the Rotation + returns and salary relief from trading Porcello + Santana at 1B on a reasonable short term contract > an unreasonable long term $200M contract for my former favorite, JDM. It's a reasonable position to take. It depends upon risk vs certainly, too, though. It's certainly risky to give JD Martinez huge $, but his offensive performance for 2018 and 2019 is a lot less risky than Santana and an Ohtani/Hanley platoon in my opinion. I think the Red Sox need an upper echelon hitter in the middle of their lineup. I think they need somebody capable of hitting 30 - 45 homers with a strong BA and OBP as well. I think it takes pressure off of Betts to be "the guy". I thought he was pressing a bit at times. Honestly I think it's more likely the Sox sign Martinez (or less likely deal for Stanton) than sign Ohtani - I really don't think he's headed to Boston as much as I'd like him to be. I think Devers can also be one of those guys, but it would be nice having two. I wouldn't be surprised if he has trouble playing a long season without getting tired. It will be interesting to see what he looks like in spring training.
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Post by Guidas on Nov 29, 2017 21:18:35 GMT -5
Just to throw this out there:
IF the Sox did get Ohtani, what do folks here think they could get if they immediately decided to trade him? Not that anyone would advocate trading a young, potential #2 starter with six years of control, but where do we think other teams would value this asset in terms of return?
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Post by burythehammer on Nov 29, 2017 22:02:26 GMT -5
If he's an ace and he can actually hit he'd be the most valuable asset in baseball, period.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 29, 2017 23:37:03 GMT -5
Just to throw this out there: IF the Sox did get Ohtani, what do folks here think they could get if they immediately decided to trade him? Not that anyone would advocate trading a young, potential #2 starter with six years of control, but where do we think other teams would value this asset in terms of return? He's not Bronson Arroyo. I imagine if the Sox ever did that no Japanese team would ever want to do business with the Red Sox ever again. Other than Mike Trout or Bryce Harper who else would be as valuable as Ohtani? And those guys either make huge money or are soon to be in line for huge money.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 30, 2017 6:29:12 GMT -5
Do people think Ohtani will be an instant superstar? I'm skeptical.
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Post by jmei on Nov 30, 2017 8:36:36 GMT -5
He doesn't have to be an immediate superstar to immediately become among the most valuable trade assets in baseball. That's how valuable 6.5 years of rookie-scale team control are.
He's not going to get traded immediately, though. No team can afford to burn those bridges-- not just with him and other Japanese players, but one of the most prominent agents (agencies) in baseball.
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Post by Guidas on Nov 30, 2017 9:13:26 GMT -5
He doesn't have to be an immediate superstar to immediately become among the most valuable trade assets in baseball. That's how valuable 6.5 years of rookie-scale team control are. He's not going to get traded immediately, though. No team can afford to burn those bridges-- not just with him and other Japanese players, but one of the most prominent agents (agencies) in baseball. I agree he's not going to be traded, and I also think he won't be an immediate superstar (though if his stuff is as good as it looks on video, first time through the league he may look pretty stellar, until everyone adjusts) I am not convinced the bat will play in MLB. But as a management exercise it's an interesting thought experiment. I've never seen an MLB-ready rookie with this much hype. My sense is you could rebuild the farm with four or more near MLB-ready blue chips prospects or get two or more MLB star-level players with three or more years of control in positions of need, plus a great prospect, for him. That in itself from a team-building perspective is very tempting. But yes, you'd likely kibosh future Japanese players coming to Boston as a first choice, and the GM who did it would probably create bad feelings with his agent (then again, if you want to be truly Machiavelian about this, you could always fire that GM down the road and start anew. Hey, it's business...).
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 30, 2017 10:27:39 GMT -5
I've never seen an MLB-ready rookie with this much hype. You clearly don't remember Daisuke Matsuzaka and the gyroball. And before some (as I was about to do) point to him as evidence that Ohtani is no sure bet, keep in mind that he had been scouted so poorly that people thought he threw a pitch that doesn't exist. 10 years later, I'm hopeful that we've learned a thing or two about this stuff.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Nov 30, 2017 18:57:08 GMT -5
No gyro. But, a souvlaki 😀
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Post by artfuldodger on Dec 1, 2017 8:30:38 GMT -5
Would someone be able to outline what perks are allowed in a minor league contract?
Will Ohtani be able to receive airplane tickets/hotel rooms for his family to fly over?
Will Ohtani be able to receive paid lodging?
Depending on the perks allowed, the value could be greater than the signing bonus.
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 1, 2017 8:37:26 GMT -5
I've never seen an MLB-ready rookie with this much hype. You clearly don't remember Daisuke Matsuzaka and the gyroball. And before some (as I was about to do) point to him as evidence that Ohtani is no sure bet, keep in mind that he had been scouted so poorly that people thought he threw a pitch that doesn't exist. 10 years later, I'm hopeful that we've learned a thing or two about this stuff. Also, despite being supremely infuriating, Matsuzaka spent his first two years pitching pretty well. 372 1/3 IP, 126 ERA+, 355 Ks, 9.4 bWAR. 174 walks are too many, but he countered that with only 37 HR allowed. He was basically hurt and bad from that point forward, but he really was a key contributor on those loaded 2007 and 2008 teams.
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Post by jmei on Dec 1, 2017 8:53:12 GMT -5
Would someone be able to outline what perks are allowed in a minor league contract? Will Ohtani be able to receive airplane tickets/hotel rooms for his family to fly over? Will Ohtani be able to receive paid lodging? Depending on the perks allowed, the value could be greater than the signing bonus. I believe he is required under the CBA to sign the uniform first-year player contract (without any material modifications), so those sorts of extra perks would not be allowed to be included in his contract.
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Post by DesignatedKyle on Dec 1, 2017 9:40:16 GMT -5
👀
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 1, 2017 9:48:41 GMT -5
Sorry, Marlins.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 1, 2017 12:30:13 GMT -5
Lol, well Yankee fans are already scrambling after seeing this tweet.
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 1, 2017 13:20:38 GMT -5
Fair warning: if anyone who tries to parse what a "star" is, I'm going to your house and hitting you with my belt.
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Post by dirtdog on Dec 1, 2017 16:02:46 GMT -5
This was obvious but here it is in print:
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Post by telson13 on Dec 1, 2017 23:40:18 GMT -5
As a LHH who sprays the ball with power, Fenway is a great park for him to hit in. All indications (what he’s said and what he’s doing, giving up $ to come here early) say he wants to be a super-duper star. Maybe that means NY or LA, but Fenway is a great park to pitch in for power righties (see Clemens, Pedro, Schilling, even off and on Beckett) because most visiting LHH aren’t tuned to go to the wall, and CF/RCF/straightaway RF are deep. And, as mentioned, it’s a good park for lefty *hitters* (Boggs, Ortiz) who know how to use the Wall. That in itself might be a draw...he may want to be seen as a complete hitter, vs just a solid one. It’s also got a strong Japanese community/support system in the city proper. The Sox have had plenty of Japanese players have success here (Okajima, Tazawa, Koji, even Nomo and Matsuzaka at times). And I’ve got to think he’d prefer the AL. There are good cases for NY (short RF porch if he wants to sell out for power; bad park for RHPs, though Severino’s done well), Seattle, and obviously (but I think less likely, wanting to hit) NL destinations like LA or SF. But Boston, and Fenway, have a lot to offer. We’ve got the passionate fan base, that’s for sure.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Dec 2, 2017 12:38:01 GMT -5
Everything Telson said, plus the Red Sox are in the unique position of having the rotation depth to offer a 6 man rotation to maximize his unique skill set. More recovery time between his starts would allow him a better chance to hit. I'm skeptical the Red Sox would offer this, but it would probably take this type of unique pitch for the Red Sox to land him. It would certainly be must see TV (unless/until he fails).
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Post by DesignatedKyle on Dec 3, 2017 18:09:16 GMT -5
So this is nice.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 3, 2017 18:12:07 GMT -5
I wish I could like this tweet a million times and this post.
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Post by mredsox89 on Dec 3, 2017 18:18:24 GMT -5
Word is smaller market teams on the west coast are his preference, so figuring SEA & SF as the favorites at the moment
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 3, 2017 18:21:20 GMT -5
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Post by DesignatedKyle on Dec 3, 2017 18:25:24 GMT -5
Sox are out too. I didn't think we were ever really in on him, though.
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