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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Dec 6, 2017 21:40:33 GMT -5
I think it's silly trying to argue that New York and Boston aren't two of the top Markets in Baseball. Ohtani own agent wanted him to consider NY due to the market. I also don't think a poll of where players want to play is even relevant when talking about the best Markets. That would be the players top places to play, not the top Baseball Markets. The top Baseball markets are about generating revenue and the amount of fans. Agents care about this because the top markets give their players a better chance to earn promotional income. www.forbes.com/mlb-valuations/list/#tab:overallbleacherreport.com/articles/961412-mlb-power-rankings-all-30-mlb-teams-by-market-sizeI would rank the Market as the Dodgers, Yankees and Red Sox right now. You can debate that a little, but they are both top 5. Ohtani wanted the best fit, not the best market. He said that from day one, that's why I found it funny everyone thought he would go to New York. Good for him, that doesn't change the top Markets though. thank you. perhaps i should have used "top" . i will disagree about LA, imo, it is a better basketball market.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 6, 2017 21:53:02 GMT -5
Who cares what the reasons are for not considering Boston or NY? Ohtani's reasons are his own and they're not wrong for him. Telling someone else they're wrong for making personal decisions is borderline psychotic. i mean, who has said that. i didn't The NY Daily News headline writer said that (in a nasty nutshell). Typical NY hubris. Around 2003 - 2005 or thereabouts NY or Boston was the place to go for free agents, but I don't think that's necessarily the case right now. NY has been bypassed a surprising amount of times and the Red Sox are not a franchise that every player necessarily feels the need to go to. There are a lot of players that just want to play and don't want to bother with a pack of media. Others like the attention and are more of a fit temperamentally for playing in Boston or NY. In NY you could be on the wrong side of the tabloid headlines or in Boston there's a ton of scrutiny. It's not just a small handful of beat writers. Unless Boston or NY shells out a lot of extra $ I don't know that they are the places to be. In the past decade there's been a good amount of parity. Other cities are having their moments now. The last 3 champions have been KC, Cubs, and Houston. You don't have to go to NY or Boston (which was only the case this past decade) to get a ring now.
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Post by Smittyw on Dec 7, 2017 7:33:39 GMT -5
Who cares what the reasons are for not considering Boston or NY? Ohtani's reasons are his own and they're not wrong for him. Telling someone else they're wrong for making personal decisions is borderline psychotic. So he passes up a vast amount of money to come to MLB sooner, and then he expects to choose where to play based on his own personal preferences and happiness? What nerve!
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 7, 2017 15:07:43 GMT -5
i mean, who has said that. i didn't The NY Daily News headline writer said that (in a nasty nutshell). Typical NY hubris. Around 2003 - 2005 or thereabouts NY or Boston was the place to go for free agents, but I don't think that's necessarily the case right now. NY has been bypassed a surprising amount of times and the Red Sox are not a franchise that every player necessarily feels the need to go to. There are a lot of players that just want to play and don't want to bother with a pack of media. Others like the attention and are more of a fit temperamentally for playing in Boston or NY. In NY you could be on the wrong side of the tabloid headlines or in Boston there's a ton of scrutiny. It's not just a small handful of beat writers. Unless Boston or NY shells out a lot of extra $ I don't know that they are the places to be. In the past decade there's been a good amount of parity. Other cities are having their moments now. The last 3 champions have been KC, Cubs, and Houston. You don't have to go to NY or Boston (which was only the case this past decade) to get a ring now. How is the last 3 years any different than 2001 to 2003? The D-backs, Angels and Marlins won titles those years. The truth is most players will always pick the team that offers them the most money. Robinson Cano left the Yankees for more money, not because he didn't like New York. While New York and Boston still are most likely tops in terms of media coverage, the gap has closed a ton. Social media has changed everything. Newspapers are no longer the #1 source for MLB coverage. So the fact those cities have tons of newspapers and writers isn't the huge difference it used to be. A guy in his basement can write about the Cleveland Indians and millions of people can now easily read it. You didn't see that 20 years ago. You can make a case that Boston might have less media scrutiny than places like LA and Chicago now. The idea that Boston is some how a less desirable place now than 10-15 years ago seems dead wrong. While a team like KC can build for years and years to win a title. They can't maintain it. They can't be a top spending team year after year. Very few teams can. The Red Sox are one of those teams.
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Post by mredsox89 on Dec 8, 2017 14:08:28 GMT -5
Ohtani signs with the Angels.....
Mariners have to be livid, as it seems like their last 3-4 moves have been solely based around Ohtani as the end result
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Post by ramireja on Dec 8, 2017 14:13:47 GMT -5
Wow, would have never thought the Angels would have won this bidding when this all began. Thats a huge break for a franchise with the greatest player of our generation but little surrounding him and a very weak farm system.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 8, 2017 14:27:26 GMT -5
Dang, Angels could make some noise this coming season. Still need another starter or two I would think but this is huge for that franchise and I'm pretty glad because Trout deserves better than he has gotten so far.
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Dec 8, 2017 14:53:38 GMT -5
Dang, Angels could make some noise this coming season. Still need another starter or two I would think but this is huge for that franchise and I'm pretty glad because Trout deserves better than he has gotten so far. Have to agree. Hate it that we don't see Trout enough nationally. He really had to pick an AL team with him wishing to hit also. NO way was a team wanting him running around in the outfield. It will certainly be interesting to see him in both roles next season
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 8, 2017 15:51:28 GMT -5
It's kind of a good thing that Ohtani winds up in Anaheim. The Mariners, with Ohtani, looks like a team that could grab the Wild Card with a reasonable chance to go further.
Now he is in Anaheim instead and while he should improve the Angels rotation, their rotation is still kind of thin and their lineup despite adding Upton to go with Trout and Pujols is still kind of thin. If they get Moustakas that could be a big help. Not having to pay Ohtani much this year should give them that chance.
I'm glad Ohtani won't be tipping the balance of power in the AL.
Though I do have to laugh at the agent's proclamation that location didn't matter as much - I mean the guy totally eliminated the East Coast and had 5 of the 6 West Coasts teams among his final 7, so c'mon - we know he didn't want to play in the East. Those teams shouldn't have even had to spend time submitting their proposal if they were already eliminated before they started.
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on Dec 12, 2017 23:13:12 GMT -5
Well well
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Post by dirtdog on Dec 12, 2017 23:19:54 GMT -5
I guess the good news for the Angels is he can still hit.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 12, 2017 23:32:22 GMT -5
I guess the good news for the Angels is he can still hit. Or at least they hope so. This is disappointing. I wanted to see if he could pull it off - be a top notch starting pitcher and a competent productive hitter on the days he doesn't pitch. Reading further it seems like he can still pitch although you have to wonder if he'll need TJ surgery some point soon. Hope this injury doesn't impact him too much.
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Post by soxfan06 on Dec 12, 2017 23:49:45 GMT -5
I guess the good news for the Angels is he can still hit. The good news is they have him locked up for 6 years at a normal rookie scale salary. But it's not like other big international FA signings where they got big money.
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Post by jmei on Dec 13, 2017 7:56:21 GMT -5
Many pitchers are pain-free but have some UCL wear and tear by their mid-20s, it's just rare that they're free agents at such a young age and have full MRIs.
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Post by sarasoxer on Dec 13, 2017 10:05:22 GMT -5
How in the world can this just be coming out?
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 13, 2017 10:27:17 GMT -5
How in the world can this just be coming out? HIPPA laws? The teams knew full well what it was. The Angels have stated that his elbow looks like every other similar aged pitcher's elbow.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 13, 2017 10:39:08 GMT -5
We should note that outstanding young pitchers in Japan are the heart of their school teams. They will have thrown many innings by their early 20s, as they work their way through the pro leagues. This is not all that surprising.
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Post by voiceofreason on Mar 28, 2018 19:47:37 GMT -5
What is the outlook for him at this point? Their is a lot of pressure on him, that doesn't help.
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Post by voiceofreason on Apr 7, 2018 4:52:58 GMT -5
What is the outlook for him at this point? Their is a lot of pressure on him, that doesn't help. What pressure? If you haven't seen it his teammates all gave him the cold shoulder on his first HR, very funny and a great moment for the team. He has obviously made a good impression on his peers.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Apr 10, 2018 7:36:53 GMT -5
I've always been afraid to ask this question because I thought it was a dumb one but perhaps Otani makes it less stupid.
If Otani continues to do what he's doing this year, are teams going to change how they evaluate two-way players in the draft? Would a guy like Trey Ball for example (horrible example in hindsight) be viewed more valuable?
Also, it would seem that if you developed a guy two ways, a few years down the road one side of the ball might stand out more than the other and you can pick and choose then whether to make a guy a position player or a pitcher.
If Otani stays healthy, you'd have to think teams are going to look at two-way players differently, but then again.....he's also just a one-man sample size. I understand that the vast majority of players are NOT Shoei Otani, but we've seen players over the year who've been talented on both sides of the ball and a team always chooses to develop them one way. If it can happen once, why shouldn't it happen again?
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 10, 2018 7:43:49 GMT -5
It's hard enough to be good enough at either hitting or pitching to play in the major leagues. What Ohtani is doing doesn't change that. There's only so much practice and playing time.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Apr 10, 2018 8:22:18 GMT -5
It's hard enough to be good enough at either hitting or pitching to play in the major leagues. What Ohtani is doing doesn't change that. There's only so much practice and playing time. Listen, I understand that Otani is an exceptional player, and I understand that when someone like him comes along some jackass like me comes along and says why can't the exception be the norm? I don't disagree with your statement at all, I don't believe Otani is going to open up some kind of floodgate that results in dozens of two-way players in the major leagues and if that was how I came off then I apologize. But the world isn't flat, and Superman isn't real. Otani might be an exceptionally rare athlete, but it's not as if there won't' be others or have been others as well. That was the point I was trying to make. I'm sure there was someone over the past ten years who was seen as a top prospect in the draft who could pitch and hit and teams make them choose when they're drafted. It seems that Otani made teams take him as a two-way player. What I was trying to say, is in the near distant future I ponder a hyped player coming along who is regarded a top talented on both sides of the ball and sees what Otani says and says "That's what I'm going to do" and perhaps a team is receptive living in a world that sees what Otani has done (assuming he continues to produce on both sides of the ball).
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 10, 2018 8:34:23 GMT -5
Yeah, you have to be a truly special talent to do what Ohtani's doing. Ohtani had bargaining power and a track record of success in both roles. If he were coming out of high school in the U.S., 30 out of 30 teams would have told him to focus on pitching, I'd bet, and you'd get close to that if he were a college player. I think the much more important test case well be Brendan McKay of the Rays, a college draftee who they're letting play two ways... for now. It's one thing when you get a guy who's already ready on both sides of the game. It's another thing when you have to develop that player.
I recall the Red Sox development plan with Casey Kelly, which, in hindsight, was very poorly designed in terms of developing him both ways, although that was probably intentional. He played half the year as a pitcher, then half the year as a shortstop in 2009. Of course, it was seems to have been pretty clearly designed to get him to buy in to pitching only. "Oh, so you want to hit now? Alright, well we're going to send you from Salem, where you were shoving, down to extended for a month, then have you get completely overmatched in Greenville and the AFL. ... Oh, you didn't like that? How about pitching full-time then?"
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Apr 10, 2018 9:55:59 GMT -5
There have been 2 players in the last 150 years of baseball that has done both sides of baseball (pitching and hitting) to a all-star level. Two. That's even if Ohtani can actually keep hitting. The probability of it happening more often is like hitting the powerball.
I don't know why teams would all of a sudden change their approach in terms of drafting because of Ohtani reaching and excelling in MLB.
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Post by maxwellsdemon on Apr 10, 2018 10:57:01 GMT -5
There have been 2 players in the last 150 years of baseball that has done both sides of baseball (pitching and hitting) to a all-star level. Two. That's even if Ohtani can actually keep hitting. The probability of it happening more often is like hitting the powerball. I don't know why teams would all of a sudden change their approach in terms of drafting because of Ohtani reaching and excelling in MLB. Madison Bumgarner feels disrepected
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