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8/18-8/21 Red Sox vs. Angels Series Thread
danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Aug 21, 2014 16:04:56 GMT -5
What complicates Buchholz role next year is the overall stability of the rotation in 2015. We have a bunch of AAA guys on the cusp, and while some of them are certainly getting traded, we will probably have 1-2 young cost controlled pitchers in the rotation, and young guys equal uneven performances (generally speaking). If there is a solid 1-3 or 1-4, a team can live with some level of unpredictability in the forth and/or fifth spots. But if Buchholz is in the rotation, he realistically cannot be counted on. Two rookies/young guys plus Buchholz means you have unpredictability for 3/5 of the rotation. It is not reasonable for a contending team to have that sort of rotation. So the grand plan of having young, cost efficient pitchers with upside slotted in the rotation is in jeopardy, which will have ripple effects across the roster. Even if you believe one of the young guys (Workman?) is going to be pretty consistent, Buchholz's inconsistency is probably going to keep at least one young guy out of the rotation. I don't think there is much risk of overstating how Buchholz's free-fall/unpredictability is going to negatively affect the team next year, from roster construction to actual performance on the field. Cherington said he is going to sign a veteran pitcher, or two, in the off season. That's fairly definitive, I think. Of course, the prices could get very high, but I bet he does at least one. You are right, of course, about Buchholz, and his impact on the rotation. You can see it now. Wouldn't you rather have Barnes getting a shot now than watching the agony with Buchholz?
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Aug 21, 2014 17:19:19 GMT -5
as everybody knows, Allen Craig is DH tonite in BOS. Hassan optioned.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Aug 21, 2014 18:13:34 GMT -5
Alex Speier ?@alexspeier 2m Garrett Richards will have surgery next week on torn left patellar tendon. Expected out 6-9 months Damn, that's tough. Takes him into the start of next season what with rehab. Looks like it just gave out on him. As for the future, I'm of the opinion that the Sox did see this as a bridge year, something a few of us mentioned before the season started. That doesn't explain bizarre moves such as the Drew signing so late in the year. But I do think they've made some sort of business decision about where the market is going and how they need to approach team building. Since none of us are in the front office and privy to those decisions, we'll have to guess at what they are but they do seem to involve a youth movement. All of us will have to admit that the talent pool of free agents has been unsatisfying despite the large amounts of money being paid to those FAs. I think we need to be patient with the hitters. It takes a while to get the best years for position players. For every Fred Lynn, there's a Rico Petrocelli or a Dwight Evans. Those are just the names we recognize. It's a straightforward exercise to do the same for just about any team. By contrast, fastball velocity seems to peak at a relatively young age for pitchers. That's not the only thing to consider, of course, but lighting up the gun does give you perceivable value. I'll see if I can dig up those references for the board. What this means, to me, is that given the collection of arms the system has produced, the Sox will be in the market for position talent this year, and probably by trading for that talent rather than through the FA market, though I could be wrong about that. They can't possibly accommodate Barnes, Ranaudo, Webster, Wright, Owens and Johnson, let alone the other possible candidates, over the next year+ which is about when they will all be ripe for the picking. Those players have some value. Identifying which to keep and which to let go will be the hard part, I believe. I'm willing to cut the team some slack. I think they chose this path purposefully. That means I believed Cherrington last year when he talked about their strategy. That said, I'll be perfectly willing to criticize ownership if this all falls flat.
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Post by mgoetze on Aug 21, 2014 18:27:00 GMT -5
Napoli haters take note... Allen Craig is apparently so bad at 1B that the Sox would rather play Kelly Johnson there.
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Post by soxfanatic on Aug 21, 2014 18:37:40 GMT -5
Napoli haters take note... Allen Craig is apparently so bad at 1B that the Sox would rather play Kelly Johnson there. He's also coming back from an injury.
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Post by mgoetze on Aug 21, 2014 18:47:09 GMT -5
Sigh... Rubby looked so good a couple of weeks ago...
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Post by mredsox89 on Aug 21, 2014 18:54:17 GMT -5
Nice escape from Rubby. Finally getting some swings and misses on the fastball
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Post by redsox4242 on Aug 21, 2014 18:55:47 GMT -5
Way to battle Rubby, just keeps on battling and never gives in! Solid. lets get some runs!
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Aug 21, 2014 18:56:32 GMT -5
Rubby up to 97 on one fastball that inning.
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Post by redsox4242 on Aug 21, 2014 19:19:43 GMT -5
Rubbys Changeup looks outstanding tonight, that along with his fastball is a deadly weapon. Nice inning.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Aug 21, 2014 19:55:19 GMT -5
Sigh... Rubby looked so good a couple of weeks ago... ... Rubbys Changeup looks outstanding tonight, that along with his fastball is a deadly weapon. Nice inning. It can take an inning or two for a pitcher to get their stuff going. We've all heard about the really good ones, and how if you don't reach them early you won't reach them at all. I'm not saying that's the class De La Rosa fits in, but we probably need to cut him a little slack. When he gets it rolling his stuff can be lights out.
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atzar
Veteran
Posts: 1,817
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Post by atzar on Aug 21, 2014 19:59:44 GMT -5
He deserves better tonight. Pitching a very solid game thus far, and I especially like that the strikeouts are finally there tonight. But this offense is embarrassing itself.
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Post by station13 on Aug 21, 2014 20:00:16 GMT -5
Geez, the hitting is simply beyond awful. How many times have they been held hitless through 6?
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Post by aussiesox on Aug 21, 2014 20:09:45 GMT -5
I'm finding watching the Angels broadcast to be quite funny in regards to Vazquez, with regards to his defensive skills. After he K'd Cowgill, they said "Vazquez tried to bring that one back"... pretty clearly he did, and it worked lol.
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Post by marrcus on Aug 21, 2014 20:29:59 GMT -5
So on a evening where Cespedes get's a personal message in the dugout and leaves, WMB gets into the game --unexpectedly-- and delivers a double. No no-no tonight.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,416
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Post by radiohix on Aug 21, 2014 21:00:08 GMT -5
Bogaerts is OPSing .316 in August! I want to cry...
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Post by aussiesox on Aug 21, 2014 21:15:47 GMT -5
I'll never get tired of watching that, Vazquez is really something else
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atzar
Veteran
Posts: 1,817
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Post by atzar on Aug 21, 2014 21:24:46 GMT -5
Well, if you told me that the Sox would get one-hit tonight and then asked me to guess who, Middlebrooks might be the last guy I would have guessed.
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Post by MLBDreams on Aug 21, 2014 21:48:58 GMT -5
It's sixth time for the 2014 RS hitter that broke no-hitter during 7th inning or so. This team got few hits & fewer runs in most games and get shutout for 12th time. It's been horrible year as hitting team.
Who's more responsible for that? Hitting coaches or Ben that put on weak hitters (JBJ, Bogaerts, WMB, Drew, Johnson, etc) on the team? Bad manager decision for everyday line up?
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Post by dcsoxfan on Aug 21, 2014 22:12:58 GMT -5
It's sixth time for the 2014 RS hitter that broke no-hitter during 7th inning or so. This team got few hits & fewer runs in most games and get shutout for 12th time. It's been horrible year as hitting team. Who's more responsible for that? Hitting coaches or Ben that put on weak hitters (JBJ, Bogaerts, WMB, Drew, Johnson, etc) on the team? Bad manager decision for everyday line up? I don't know who is responsible, but I have a pretty good idea what is responsible. The Red Sox are currently getting less than 1.0 WAR from players acquired via the draft or as international free agents subsequent to 2005 (and that includes players like Rubby de la Rosa and Allen Webster who were, arguably, acquired in part using players from the 2007, 2008 and 2009 draft). They have nothing to show for the 2006, 2007, 2008 or 2009 drafts (although that could change if either Will Middlebrooks or Christian Vazquez becomes an impact player). By contrast, players drafted between 2002 and 2005 (Lester, Papelbon, Pedroia, Ellsbury and Buchholz) provided, on average, around 15 WAR per year between 2008 and 2013. With the luxury tax threshold pinned at approximately $190 million dollars and the cost of free agents rising, I don't think you can build an effective contender without at least some cost-controlled high impact players. I don't think this team is going to contend again until at least couple of the current prospects make the transition from prospect to impact player.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Aug 21, 2014 22:17:22 GMT -5
Bogaerts is OPSing .316 in August! I want to cry... They officially need to do something about this. Send him down, phantom DL, something. Just get him out of there. Whatever is wrong with him, starting every day against major league pitching is not helping. I don't like it when teams jerk young players around because they're slumping but this is well beyond a slump.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Aug 21, 2014 22:32:10 GMT -5
I'm surprised that Tazawa and Mujica both have the same WHIP after the game, and that Tazawa has only thrown 5 1/3 more innings on the season. Never would have imagined either of those back in April.
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ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,421
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Post by ianrs on Aug 21, 2014 23:23:03 GMT -5
Bogaerts is OPSing .316 in August! I want to cry... Wow. I did not realize it was that bad...might be time to send Xander down to Pawtucket to figure some things out.
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Post by joshv02 on Aug 22, 2014 5:55:07 GMT -5
Bogaerts is OPSing .316 in August! I want to cry... They officially need to do something about this. Send him down, phantom DL, something. Just get him out of there. Whatever is wrong with him, starting every day against major league pitching is not helping. I don't like it when teams jerk young players around because they're slumping but this is well beyond a slump. But why is failure today something that would hurt him tomorrow? Is is that the expectation is that if he gets good results against lesser competition he'll have more confidence and that will translate? Is it mechanical - we expect that he'll be able to fix whatever ails him against weaker competition (but not in the cage)? I just don't see the problem with failure from a development point of view, unless we think that failure itself will cause a larger issue. It certainly could do so - but I don't have any idea of knowing that, and I suspect that the team is trying to figure that out, too (though, not giving him a break leads me to believe that this is a supremely confident kid who isn't that shaken). Obviously, a problem with individual failure is team failure, but we are, sadly, well beyond that point.
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Post by mgoetze on Aug 22, 2014 6:22:26 GMT -5
The Red Sox are currently getting less than 1.0 WAR from players acquired via the draft or as international free agents subsequent to 2005 (and that includes players like Rubby de la Rosa and Allen Webster who were, arguably, acquired in part using players from the 2007, 2008 and 2009 draft). RDLR has already contributed 1.4 RA9-WAR this season. On another note, Tazawa is only T-11th in the majors for number of games. Would have expected him higher on that list.
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