SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
9/19-9/21 Red Sox @ Orioles Series Thread
|
Post by Jonathan Singer on Sept 19, 2014 8:55:17 GMT -5
9/19 Red Sox (RHP Allen Webster 4-3 6.02) @ Orioles (RHP Kevin Gausman 7-7 3.57) 7:05 pm ET, NESN/WEEI9/20 Red Sox (RHP Rubby De La Rosa 4-7 4.31) @ Orioles (RHP Chris Tillman 12-5 3.29) 7:05 pm ET, NESN/WEEI9/21 Red Sox (RHP Joe Kelly 2-2 4.21) @ Orioles (RHP Miguel Gonzalez 9-8 3.28) 1:35 pm ET, NESN/WEEIMLB StandingsRed Sox Hitting StatsRed Sox Pitching StatsMLB ScoreboardMLB TransactionsWeatherSeries Thread Disclaimer: The SoxProspects Moderators will be somewhat liberal in policing the Red Sox "Series" Threads. Some of the Ground Rules are applied loosely in here, as we understand that there is a tendency to want to react (or overreact) to every play of a Sox game with one line reactionary posts. Those posts are okay in the Red Sox Series threads to a point - we certainly appreciate the passion. Just try not to overdo it, and try to maintain some semblance of reason. In addition, please don't let those type of posts spill over to other more substantive threads, where they may be deleted. -The Management
|
|
|
Post by kman22 on Sept 19, 2014 12:39:44 GMT -5
Another series where all of the opposing starters have a sub-4 ERA and all of our starters have an ERA of 4.00+.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Sept 19, 2014 16:14:58 GMT -5
Cecchini with his first MLB start:
Mookie Betts, 2B Xander Bogaerts, SS David Ortiz, DH Yoenis Cespedes, LF Daniel Nava, RF Allen Craig, 1B Rusney Castillo, CF Garin Cecchini, 3B Christian Vazquez, C
Allen Webster, RHP
|
|
|
Post by godot on Sept 19, 2014 16:24:36 GMT -5
Might have to get use to it. Take away a pitcher like Lester and go internally with "prospects" and this is what you get. I wonder what the average innings pitched by starters has been since Lester left. Of course, taking Lackey out of the rotation did not help either, but no problems here with trading him. A front of the rotation starter like Lester (has emerged into) has more of an impact on the pitching rotation that just someone who will give you a chance to win every five games. Resigning or replacing Lester could be their first priority to the off season, perhaps followed by constructing a pen ( Koji may not be the closer he once was).
Those who equate value with salary should rethink 'value', suggesting the importance to the team and ability to replace. Baseball is a business but it is also entertainment and plays a role in a community (circuses, spectacles, and escape), whether we agree with it or not. Owners usually have other sources of money, and baseball is racking in the bucks with TV and other revenue generators. As fans we should not be as concerned about their salary inputs as many suggest.
|
|
ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,414
|
Post by ianrs on Sept 19, 2014 16:28:00 GMT -5
Might have to get use to it. Take away a pitcher like Lester and go internally with "prospects" and this is what you get. I wonder what the average innings pitched by starters has been since Lester left. Of course, taking Lackey out of the rotation did not help either, but no problems here with trading him. A front of the rotation starter like Lester (has emerged into) has more of an impact on the pitching rotation that just someone who will give you a chance to win every five games. Resigning or replacing Lester could be their first priority to the off season, perhaps followed by constructing a pen ( Koji may not be the closer he once was). Those who equate value with salary should rethink 'value', suggesting the importance to the team and ability to replace. Baseball is a business but it is also entertainment and plays a role in a community (circuses, spectacles, and escape), whether we agree with it or not. Owners usually have other sources of money, and baseball is racking in the bucks with TV and other revenue generators. As fans we should not be as concerned about their salary inputs as many suggest. I mean...Jon Lester was a prospect once, too. You find out what you have in prospects by giving them a chance. This is the kind of season where you can afford to see what you have in Allen Webster. Also, its not like they are running in place - we just signed Rusney Castillo to a 72.5 million dollar contract. Pitching hasn't really been the issue, even after the trades of Lackey, Lester, and Miller. Its largely been an offensive catastrophe, though the pitching hasn't been great, either.
|
|
|
Post by godot on Sept 19, 2014 16:45:56 GMT -5
True, it takes time to develop "prospects" and some longer than others, which is why it may not be wise to dump a Lester. Do you want to wait a few years before you have a strong staff? It did take time and some bumps for him to learn the art of pitching, and at his age and history, he should have a few good years ahead of him.
In general, pitching is often the issue. The Sox's inept offense makes us think otherwise. Agree though, they are not running in place, and we still have to off season to reconstruct the staff.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Sept 19, 2014 16:48:34 GMT -5
Might have to get use to it. Take away a pitcher like Lester and go internally with "prospects" and this is what you get. I wonder what the average innings pitched by starters has been since Lester left. Of course, taking Lackey out of the rotation did not help either, but no problems here with trading him. A front of the rotation starter like Lester (has emerged into) has more of an impact on the pitching rotation that just someone who will give you a chance to win every five games. Resigning or replacing Lester could be their first priority to the off season, perhaps followed by constructing a pen ( Koji may not be the closer he once was). Those who equate value with salary should rethink 'value', suggesting the importance to the team and ability to replace. Baseball is a business but it is also entertainment and plays a role in a community (circuses, spectacles, and escape), whether we agree with it or not. Owners usually have other sources of money, and baseball is racking in the bucks with TV and other revenue generators. As fans we should not be as concerned about their salary inputs as many suggest. This is what you get when they are trade deadline sellers and aren't fielding a complete team. This complaining crap has gotten ridiculous. Do you honestly believe we're doing nothing this winter??
|
|
|
Post by lulupoisett on Sept 19, 2014 16:49:14 GMT -5
New poster here.....after this horrendous season, I've relegated myself to watching the newbies....am enjoying it up to a point... wish they could hit, though!!
|
|
|
Post by Oregon Norm on Sept 19, 2014 17:06:40 GMT -5
Cecchini with his first MLB start: Mookie Betts, 2B Xander Bogaerts, SS David Ortiz, DH Yoenis Cespedes, LF Daniel Nava, RF Allen Craig, 1B Rusney Castillo, CF Garin Cecchini, 3B Christian Vazquez, C Allen Webster, RHP Ortiz and Nava from last year. That's it, unless you add in Bogaerts and his month of time during the regular season. Coming to you from the great northwest
|
|
|
Post by station13 on Sept 19, 2014 17:07:23 GMT -5
I hope Rubby has a good start. It's tiring seeing 25 years old supposedly "burning out" at this time of the season. Young players on the cusp of their prime should be horses.
|
|
|
Post by godot on Sept 19, 2014 17:30:17 GMT -5
Might have to get use to it. Take away a pitcher like Lester and go internally with "prospects" and this is what you get. I wonder what the average innings pitched by starters has been since Lester left. Of course, taking Lackey out of the rotation did not help either, but no problems here with trading him. A front of the rotation starter like Lester (has emerged into) has more of an impact on the pitching rotation that just someone who will give you a chance to win every five games. Resigning or replacing Lester could be their first priority to the off season, perhaps followed by constructing a pen ( Koji may not be the closer he once was). Those who equate value with salary should rethink 'value', suggesting the importance to the team and ability to replace. Baseball is a business but it is also entertainment and plays a role in a community (circuses, spectacles, and escape), whether we agree with it or not. Owners usually have other sources of money, and baseball is racking in the bucks with TV and other revenue generators. As fans we should not be as concerned about their salary inputs as many suggest. This is what you get when they are trade deadline sellers and aren't fielding a complete team. This complaining crap has gotten ridiculous. Do you honestly believe we're doing nothing this winter?? Sorry do like to respond like this, but how else could one respond to this stuff. Are you capable of giving a reasonable argument instead of the rumblings of a guy in a bar with an unlimited tab. . You even have problems reading. I said they have the off-season to reconstruct, Egad Sparky and good night Irene.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Sept 19, 2014 17:41:15 GMT -5
This is what you get when they are trade deadline sellers and aren't fielding a complete team. This complaining crap has gotten ridiculous. Do you honestly believe we're doing nothing this winter?? Sorry do like to respond like this, but how else could one respond to this stuff. Are you capable of giving a reasonable argument instead of the rumblings of a guy in a bar with an unlimited tab. . You even have problems reading. I said they have the off-season to reconstruct, Egad Sparky and good night Irene. You said "Might have to get use to it. Take away a pitcher like Lester and go internally with "prospects" and this is what you get." What the hell is that supposed to mean other than you don't think they're going to do anything but go with prospects and have a bunch of seasons like this one? That's insanely overly negative. You seem to think we have to get used to being this bad because we're going with prospects over Lester moving forward. They are going to do a lot of work this winter and that's pretty much a given to anyone who saw what we traded Lester for. We "only have to get used to it" for 9 more games.
|
|
danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
|
Post by danr on Sept 19, 2014 18:03:33 GMT -5
Folks, this might not be a bad lineup. If Craig could return to something approximating himself of a couple years ago, and if Cecchini can hit in the majors, and if Castillo is what he is supposed to be, and if Bogaerts does what he supposed to do, etc., then who knows, this could be a winning team.
So many ifs, but there are real upside possibilities.
Obviously, there also are the other possibilities.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Sept 19, 2014 18:58:14 GMT -5
Those who equate value with salary should rethink 'value', suggesting the importance to the team and ability to replace. Baseball is a business but it is also entertainment and plays a role in a community (circuses, spectacles, and escape), whether we agree with it or not. Owners usually have other sources of money, and baseball is racking in the bucks with TV and other revenue generators. As fans we should not be as concerned about their salary inputs as many suggest. The "value" argument is never that owners should keep the revenue rather than spending it on payroll. The argument is that for any given payroll, it makes more sense to spend it on certain players and not on others. In the case of the Red Sox, we can be pretty confident that they're going to spend up to the luxury tax limit, and it's a question of who they spend that money on, not whether they spend it at all. Opportunity cost and all that.
|
|
|
Post by godot on Sept 19, 2014 19:13:24 GMT -5
Those who equate value with salary should rethink 'value', suggesting the importance to the team and ability to replace. Baseball is a business but it is also entertainment and plays a role in a community (circuses, spectacles, and escape), whether we agree with it or not. Owners usually have other sources of money, and baseball is racking in the bucks with TV and other revenue generators. As fans we should not be as concerned about their salary inputs as many suggest. The "value" argument is never that owners should keep the revenue rather than spending it on payroll. The argument is that for any given payroll, it makes more sense to spend it on certain players and not on others. In the case of the Red Sox, we can be pretty confident that they're going to spend up to the luxury tax limit, and it's a question of who they spend that money on, not whether they spend it at all. Opportunity cost and all that. Fair interpretation of value and good point; also, agree they will spend. Just did not agree with how they decided on who or who they would not will spend it on ( but that is another story) and the limits and given payroll is another story that inadvertently fits in more or forces the value as salary idea. Of course, can see the attempt to make some teams competitive, but it tends to result in value as salary and forces teams to "bottom fish". It really hasn't put a cap on salaries.
|
|
|
Post by dcsoxfan on Sept 19, 2014 19:34:53 GMT -5
This team isn't bad because of Ben Cherington or because of cheap owners; it's bad because it currently is getting no contribution from the 2006 through 2010 draft classes. The 2006 and 2007 drafts were fine, but Theo Epstein traded the best players from those drafts - the best one to himself.
With a salary cap and guaranteed contracts you can't build a winning team without consistent contribution from the farm. As painful as it seems, I think trying to develop a few young players to build around is the only strategy that will yield any level of sustained success.
|
|
|
Post by thelavarnwayguy on Sept 19, 2014 19:48:02 GMT -5
New poster here.....after this horrendous season, I've relegated myself to watching the newbies....am enjoying it up to a point... wish they could hit, though!! Welcome! Remember, there is always Mookie!
|
|
|
Post by thelavarnwayguy on Sept 19, 2014 19:59:41 GMT -5
There is hope for next year. We have a better hitting lineup now, it seems. If we resign Lester, maybe another starter and find a 3rd base solution somehow, I like our chances. I think things are going great!
Give Webster a little confidence and who knows what he can do. No doubt he does have the stuff needed.
|
|
|
Post by ancientsoxfogey on Sept 19, 2014 21:13:18 GMT -5
Not a good day in draft position land. The Cubs got slaughtered, Houston is getting pummeled, and Minnesota is behind.
We need to find a way to lose this game. Really bad teams can do that regularly.
|
|
|
Post by p23w on Sept 19, 2014 21:52:48 GMT -5
Nice. Take away Breslow, and already this is a better team. And as this Board is fond of saying..... this team is nothing without Papi.
|
|
|
Post by larrycook on Sept 19, 2014 22:32:07 GMT -5
Papi is amazing. I thought he his bat really looked slow in Pittsburgh. But amazingly it came to life tonight .
|
|
|
Post by nationinthesouth on Sept 19, 2014 22:38:24 GMT -5
Liberal moderation of game day threads aside, is it possible to ban future references that trading Lester has had an adverse effect on this years pitching staff?
|
|
|
Post by larrycook on Sept 19, 2014 22:55:58 GMT -5
Liberal moderation of game day threads aside, is it possible to ban future references that trading Lester has had an adverse effect on this years pitching staff? Why?
|
|
|
Post by Oregon Norm on Sept 19, 2014 23:18:34 GMT -5
Off at a meeting, so I only watched the first inning. Looks like another decent game from Webster. Comments? He does seem to benefit from having Vazquez catch his games. Add: Another series where all of the opposing starters have a sub-4 ERA and all of our starters have an ERA of 4.00+. Which doesn't seem to have mattered very much at all, this game. That's baseball.
|
|
|
Post by nationinthesouth on Sept 19, 2014 23:57:48 GMT -5
Liberal moderation of game day threads aside, is it possible to ban future references that trading Lester has had an adverse effect on this years pitching staff? Why?Because every level minded individual from Red Sox Ownership down to the "casual" follower of baseball on this site understands that trading Lester as well as Lackey, Peavey and throw Doubront in there if you like was going to have an immediate impact on the roster short term. It's just noise at this point.
|
|
|