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Chris Sale
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Post by Smittyw on Dec 2, 2016 15:33:28 GMT -5
Really truly hope the Sox don't go after Sale if the cost is anywhere near what some of you are proposing. Sox already have 2 Cy Young level TOR pitchers. Do they really need to give up so much future value for another 1? A Resounding NO!! You weren't kidding around when you chose that screen-name.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 2, 2016 17:12:44 GMT -5
This is what I think it takes to get Sale- Benintendi Swihart Eduardo Rodriguez Michael Kopech I hope if this is the package, that Dombrowski stays far away but I don't know with Dombrowski. He might figure that it's easier to get a LF and Sale replaces Eduardo in the rotation. Alright I'm done speculating. All these JBJ and Pomeranz suggestions make no sense. The White Sox will want under 25 controllable talent for Sale imo. JBJ and Pomeranz don't fit this description. The White Sox are going to ask for everything you suggested and one more major piece. It could be Devers, Groome, Travis, or another guy but they aren't giving him up for 4 top prospects this year. They want the Shelby Miller deal with two more guys. (ESPN) There's really no need to speculate on Chris Sale. Just cross your fingers and pray we don't get him. It'll cost us our whole future. No way they ask for more, that's already way more than the Miller trade. Per Keith Law the Miller trade had the 13th and 39th rated prospects and a good young OF, but not a great one. I just don't see them getting a better offer than that one, never mind one more major piece. I want no part of the Sale trade, but that sure seems like a great offer, I can't see them getting a better offer.
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Post by telson13 on Dec 2, 2016 17:45:41 GMT -5
JBJ was worth about as much as Sale last year and made $500k. These proposals are insane. Exactly. Pure ridiculousness.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 2, 2016 19:10:14 GMT -5
Well I think Sale's value would come in the postseason, this team is already a borderline play-off team already with no moves made. Sale would make it a sure fire bet to be a play-off team with the hopes for more. Definitely a short term approach though with huge long-term ramifications however. How did you determine they are borderline play-off as opposed to oh I don't know the likely preseason favorite to represent the AL for the WS? I team that won 93 games who cashed it in for the final 3 games to boot and the only player of real value they will lose is their DH. A team that had several injuries or bouts of unexplained shitty pitching (Clay B.) the whole first half and now have deeper depth in their starting pitching and will get Carson Smith back? www.espn.com/mlb/player/stats/_/id/32628/carson-smithPerhaps you forgot just how filthy he was as a rookie, 70 IP 49 Hits with 92 K's 13 saves and 22 holds his k/BB was 4.18, the OPS against him. 539. Having him back will make Farrell smarter. I like the Sox chances but a lot of things can happen over the course of a season. Me calling them already a borderline playoff team is actually a compliment. Means this team is already really close to being done and the winter meetings hasn't even started yet. I love Carson Smith but I'm not sure what kind of season we can expect once he comes back from Tommy John surgery.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 2, 2016 19:17:33 GMT -5
This is what I think it takes to get Sale- Benintendi Swihart Eduardo Rodriguez Michael Kopech I hope if this is the package, that Dombrowski stays far away but I don't know with Dombrowski. He might figure that it's easier to get a LF and Sale replaces Eduardo in the rotation. Alright I'm done speculating. All these JBJ and Pomeranz suggestions make no sense. The White Sox will want under 25 controllable talent for Sale imo. JBJ and Pomeranz don't fit this description. The White Sox are going to ask for everything you suggested and one more major piece. It could be Devers, Groome, Travis, or another guy but they aren't giving him up for 4 top prospects this year. They want the Shelby Miller deal with two more guys. (ESPN) There's really no need to speculate on Chris Sale. Just cross your fingers and pray we don't get him. It'll cost us our whole future. I hope we don't get him. I just wanted to show a better picture of what it'll take to get Sale. All these JBJ and Pomeranz suggestions were bothering me, wasn't all that realistic to think Pomeranz could be a decent sencond piece to a Chris Sale deal. Ohh and the package is a really strong package imo. I think a Basabe type could be added to the package if the White Sox got ridiculous and wanted another player. Either way this deal is going to hurt and hurt bad.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 2, 2016 19:28:45 GMT -5
Someone had reported that there has been 5 teams that have seperated themselves in the Chris Sale sweepstakes in terms of interest- Rangers Astros Nationals Braves and yes the Red Sox No mention of the Yankees or Dodgers. I wouldn't trust Dombrowski to hoard prospects like everyone here wants. I think he might pull the trigger on a deal that hurts. Edit- I definitely heard it on mlb network radio but I can't find any links. www.fanragsports.com/mlb/heyman-latest-chris-sale-derby/Ahh finally the link to the story.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 3, 2016 9:30:45 GMT -5
Someone had reported that there has been 5 teams that have seperated themselves in the Chris Sale sweepstakes in terms of interest- Rangers Astros Nationals Braves and yes the Red Sox No mention of the Yankees or Dodgers. I wouldn't trust Dombrowski to hoard prospects like everyone here wants. I think he might pull the trigger on a deal that hurts. Edit- I definitely heard it on mlb network radio but I can't find any links. www.fanragsports.com/mlb/heyman-latest-chris-sale-derby/Ahh finally the link to the story. That story sounds like total fabrication. A lot of "they could do this if they wanted to".
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 3, 2016 9:46:25 GMT -5
That story sounds like total fabrication. A lot of "they could do this if they wanted to". "Superstar White Sox left-hander Chris Sale is on the block, and it appears at least five teams are starting to separate themselves at the forefront of talks: the Nationals, Astros, Red Sox, Rangers and Braves." That's the headline to Heyman's column. I'm sure he has some kind of insight or source to his story. I don't think a reputable guy like Heyman would go out of his way to make this up. I mean he adds his opinion and speculation to the headline later in the story but the fact that he actually had the 5 actual teams that has shown the most interest in Sale is really telling.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 3, 2016 11:08:14 GMT -5
Really truly hope the Sox don't go after Sale if the cost is anywhere near what some of you are proposing. Sox already have 2 Cy Young level TOR pitchers. Do they really need to give up so much future value for another 1? A Resounding NO!! You weren't kidding around when you chose that screen-name. I could be called a lurker also as I have followed these pages closely for about 12 years while posting less than a 100 times.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 3, 2016 11:09:47 GMT -5
JBJ was worth about as much as Sale last year and made $500k. These proposals are insane. Exactly. Pure ridiculousness. And getting more ridiculous every day!
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 3, 2016 14:33:33 GMT -5
That story sounds like total fabrication. A lot of "they could do this if they wanted to". "Superstar White Sox left-hander Chris Sale is on the block, and it appears at least five teams are starting to separate themselves at the forefront of talks: the Nationals, Astros, Red Sox, Rangers and Braves." That's the headline to Heyman's column. I'm sure he has some kind of insight or source to his story. I don't think a reputable guy like Heyman would go out of his way to make this up. I mean he adds his opinion and speculation to the headline later in the story but the fact that he actually had the 5 actual teams that has shown the most interest in Sale is really telling. I find those teams interesting. The Nats, Red Sox and Rangers don't really need him, more of a luxury item. The Astros could use him, but are they really going to trade the prospects needed? The Braves can easily get him, but it makes no sense as they seem like 2 years away from making a move like that.
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Post by telson13 on Dec 3, 2016 18:33:56 GMT -5
"Superstar White Sox left-hander Chris Sale is on the block, and it appears at least five teams are starting to separate themselves at the forefront of talks: the Nationals, Astros, Red Sox, Rangers and Braves." That's the headline to Heyman's column. I'm sure he has some kind of insight or source to his story. I don't think a reputable guy like Heyman would go out of his way to make this up. I mean he adds his opinion and speculation to the headline later in the story but the fact that he actually had the 5 actual teams that has shown the most interest in Sale is really telling. I find those teams interesting. The Nats, Red Sox and Rangers don't really need him, more of a luxury item. The Astros could use him, but are they really going to trade the prospects needed? The Braves can easily get him, but it makes no sense as they seem like 2 years away from making a move like that. Atlanta is taking an interesting approach. Garcia, colon, Dickey? Maybe they're hoping somebody pitches well and they can flip him at the deadline? Or are they planning something like a Sale move? Weird, but fascinating.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 3, 2016 19:00:54 GMT -5
Red Sox playing it smart. Won't meet the demands of the White Sox-
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Post by larrycook on Dec 3, 2016 20:48:14 GMT -5
Very rarely does one of the top 5 pitchers in all of baseball come in the market. We have to expect it is going to cost an arm and a leg for him.
I mean dombrowski paid a fortune for a closer. What is one the top 5 starters in baseball worth?
Ps: dombrowski needs to temper desire for sale against the knowledge that betts, bogey, benintendi, rodriguez, Pedroia, Hanley, kopech, and groome are untouchable.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 3, 2016 21:31:02 GMT -5
Very rarely does one of the top 5 pitchers in all of baseball come in the market. We have to expect it is going to cost an arm and a leg for him. I mean dombrowski paid a fortune for a closer. What is one the top 5 starters in baseball worth? Ps: dombrowski needs to temper desire for sale against the knowledge that betts, bogey, benintendi, rodriguez, Pedroia, Hanley, kopech, and groome are untouchable. Mookie pretty much still is untouchable. He's been worth more in 2 seasons in terms of WAR then Sale has been in the last 3 seasons.
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Post by rookie13 on Dec 3, 2016 21:44:59 GMT -5
I still can't see the Sox trading for Sale. If they had been willing to give up JBJ at the trade deadline he would probably be in a Boston uniform. That's the report that came out, but Chicago said no deal without JBJ.
I personally could live with a JBJ+ package for Sale, but it's the other pieces that I wouldn't be comfortable including. I'm assuming Chicago's asking price right now would be something like JBJ, Benintendi/Moncada, Rodriguez, Kopech, and maybe Vazquez/Swihart.
If the asking price lowered to JBJ, Rodriguez, and Kopech/Devers, I'd take that deal. But anything more seems unnecessary to a team that has the reigning CY Young Winner and David Price at the front of the rotation.
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Post by rookie13 on Dec 3, 2016 21:46:58 GMT -5
Very rarely does one of the top 5 pitchers in all of baseball come in the market. We have to expect it is going to cost an arm and a leg for him. I mean dombrowski paid a fortune for a closer. What is one the top 5 starters in baseball worth? Ps: dombrowski needs to temper desire for sale against the knowledge that betts, bogey, benintendi, rodriguez, Pedroia, Hanley, kopech, and groome are untouchable. Mookie pretty much still is untouchable. He's been worth more in 2 seasons in terms of WAR then Sale has been in the last 3 seasons. I'd consider both Mookie and Xander to be completely off limits. Other than that, who knows what DD would do. I could see him trading just about anyone, in the right deal, except for those two.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 3, 2016 23:03:40 GMT -5
I find those teams interesting. The Nats, Red Sox and Rangers don't really need him, more of a luxury item. The Astros could use him, but are they really going to trade the prospects needed? The Braves can easily get him, but it makes no sense as they seem like 2 years away from making a move like that. Atlanta is taking an interesting approach. Garcia, colon, Dickey? Maybe they're hoping somebody pitches well and they can flip him at the deadline? Or are they planning something like a Sale move? Weird, but fascinating. I was thinking they were building up trade assets after seeing the deals last year, which is very smart. You also get vets to help the young guys. If they get Sale, they must be planning a Padre type off season were Sale triggers upgrades across the board, otherwise it makes no sense.
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Post by telson13 on Dec 3, 2016 23:13:54 GMT -5
Atlanta is taking an interesting approach. Garcia, colon, Dickey? Maybe they're hoping somebody pitches well and they can flip him at the deadline? Or are they planning something like a Sale move? Weird, but fascinating. I was thinking they were building up trade assets after seeing the deals last year, which is very smart. You also get vets to help the young guys. If they get Sale, they must be planning a Padre type off season were Sale triggers upgrades across the board, otherwise it makes no sense. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Kind of a "if everything breaks right we'll compete, and if not we'll firesale it" kind of thing. Their system is already very strong, and they have some overlapping assets (Albies/Swanson). Probably two years away, but they could speed that up with some savvy deadline deals and some quality tutoring by the graybeards. Tough to see them biting on Sale, at least this offseason. With Hill in LA, I don't see that great of a market for Sale. Even the JBJ-ERod-anything more than a bag of Big League Chew deals on here seem like way too much for the Sox to give up for a small, if any overall improvement of the team. Seems like people forget how bad LF was before Benintendi came up. After losing Ortiz, trading JBJ and/or Benintendi (shudder) is going to kill the offense and defense. Sale might post a sub-3 ERA, but he'd probably be 16-12.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 3, 2016 23:36:50 GMT -5
I still can't see the Sox trading for Sale. If they had been willing to give up JBJ at the trade deadline he would probably be in a Boston uniform. That's the report that came out, but Chicago said no deal without JBJ. I personally could live with a JBJ+ package for Sale, but it's the other pieces that I wouldn't be comfortable including. I'm assuming Chicago's asking price right now would be something like JBJ, Benintendi/Moncada, Rodriguez, Kopech, and maybe Vazquez/Swihart. If the asking price lowered to JBJ, Rodriguez, and Kopech/Devers, I'd take that deal. But anything more seems unnecessary to a team that has the reigning CY Young Winner and David Price at the front of the rotation. Well replacing Bradley at deadline is very hard, a lot easier in offseason. The White Sox aren't getting what you think, no way they get Bradley, Benintendi/Moncada, ERod, Kopech and Vaz or Swihart. You can take Bradley out and the other players are what it would take. Bradley value has to like 2 top 100 prospects and another piece. So if White Sox want Bradley they are going to get a lot less prospects. If those are there demands Sale is not getting traded. If I'm Dave and you include Bradley, Benintendi and Moncada have to be off limits. I wouldn't do Bradley, ERod and Kopech/Devers. I don't think we need Sale and don't want to trade Bradley, but if Bradley is the main piece I might be able to get behind it. Bradley , Clay, and 2-3 of the Doubon/ Travis type prospects. They can hope Clay pitches well and they can flip him at deadline for a good return. They get a big package of players, but none of our elite guys. In my opinion you can get a young stud like Bradley, making less than Sale, with an extra year of team control and expect elite prospects also. It's one or the other. You get the Young stud player or a couple of elite prospects.
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Post by rookie13 on Dec 3, 2016 23:49:50 GMT -5
I still can't see the Sox trading for Sale. If they had been willing to give up JBJ at the trade deadline he would probably be in a Boston uniform. That's the report that came out, but Chicago said no deal without JBJ. I personally could live with a JBJ+ package for Sale, but it's the other pieces that I wouldn't be comfortable including. I'm assuming Chicago's asking price right now would be something like JBJ, Benintendi/Moncada, Rodriguez, Kopech, and maybe Vazquez/Swihart. If the asking price lowered to JBJ, Rodriguez, and Kopech/Devers, I'd take that deal. But anything more seems unnecessary to a team that has the reigning CY Young Winner and David Price at the front of the rotation. Well replacing Bradley at deadline is very hard, a lot easier in offseason. The White Sox aren't getting what you think, no way they get Bradley, Benintendi/Moncada, ERod, Kopech and Vaz or Swihart. You can take Bradley out and the other players are what it would take. Bradley value has to like 2 top 100 prospects and another piece. So if White Sox want Bradley they are going to get a lot less prospects. If those are there demands Sale is not getting traded. If I'm Dave and you include Bradley, Benintendi and Moncada have to be off limits. I wouldn't do Bradley, ERod and Kopech/Devers. I don't think we need Sale and don't want to trade Bradley, but if Bradley is the main piece I might be able to get behind it. Bradley , Clay, and 2-3 of the Doubon/ Travis type prospects. They can hope Clay pitches well and they can flip him at deadline for a good return. They get a big package of players, but none of our elite guys. In my opinion you can get a young stud like Bradley, making less than Sale, with an extra year of team control and expect elite prospects also. It's one or the other. You get the Young stud player or a couple of elite prospects. Now this is a proposal I can get behind. My theoretical package isn't what I think it would take, it's what I think Chicago will ask for. I based that package on the report that they wanted the Miller deal, plus two. Obviously that's an absurd asking price, especially since Stewart isn't a GM anymore. I don't think it would take as much as people seem to think, but no matter what happens, I really think someone will end up massively overpaying for Sale. I just hope it's not the Red Sox. And forgetting about all of that, this team doesn't *need* Sale. He would be a luxury.
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Post by telson13 on Dec 4, 2016 0:00:21 GMT -5
I still can't see the Sox trading for Sale. If they had been willing to give up JBJ at the trade deadline he would probably be in a Boston uniform. That's the report that came out, but Chicago said no deal without JBJ. I personally could live with a JBJ+ package for Sale, but it's the other pieces that I wouldn't be comfortable including. I'm assuming Chicago's asking price right now would be something like JBJ, Benintendi/Moncada, Rodriguez, Kopech, and maybe Vazquez/Swihart. If the asking price lowered to JBJ, Rodriguez, and Kopech/Devers, I'd take that deal. But anything more seems unnecessary to a team that has the reigning CY Young Winner and David Price at the front of the rotation. Well replacing Bradley at deadline is very hard, a lot easier in offseason. The White Sox aren't getting what you think, no way they get Bradley, Benintendi/Moncada, ERod, Kopech and Vaz or Swihart. You can take Bradley out and the other players are what it would take. Bradley value has to like 2 top 100 prospects and another piece. So if White Sox want Bradley they are going to get a lot less prospects. If those are there demands Sale is not getting traded. If I'm Dave and you include Bradley, Benintendi and Moncada have to be off limits. I wouldn't do Bradley, ERod and Kopech/Devers. I don't think we need Sale and don't want to trade Bradley, but if Bradley is the main piece I might be able to get behind it. Bradley , Clay, and 2-3 of the Doubon/ Travis type prospects. They can hope Clay pitches well and they can flip him at deadline for a good return. They get a big package of players, but none of our elite guys. In my opinion you can get a young stud like Bradley, making less than Sale, with an extra year of team control and expect elite prospects also. It's one or the other. You get the Young stud player or a couple of elite prospects. That's actually a wholly reasonable package for Sale. I'm sure the White Sox ask for a lot more, but I'd 100% support that deal. Possible next step in that scenario: sign Ian Desmond, move Mookie to CF. It'd cost a draft pick, which I'm not keen on, but Desmond is a capable CF and probably has enough arm for RF. It would really depend on the deal, though, because dropping 5/100 on a guy like that will clog the OF picture if Moncada looks like a RFer when Devers is ready. By all accounts, Devers is becoming a superior defensive 3b, and he has a great arm that would be wasted at first.
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Post by larrycook on Dec 4, 2016 0:50:41 GMT -5
Well replacing Bradley at deadline is very hard, a lot easier in offseason. The White Sox aren't getting what you think, no way they get Bradley, Benintendi/Moncada, ERod, Kopech and Vaz or Swihart. You can take Bradley out and the other players are what it would take. Bradley value has to like 2 top 100 prospects and another piece. So if White Sox want Bradley they are going to get a lot less prospects. If those are there demands Sale is not getting traded. If I'm Dave and you include Bradley, Benintendi and Moncada have to be off limits. I wouldn't do Bradley, ERod and Kopech/Devers. I don't think we need Sale and don't want to trade Bradley, but if Bradley is the main piece I might be able to get behind it. Bradley , Clay, and 2-3 of the Doubon/ Travis type prospects. They can hope Clay pitches well and they can flip him at deadline for a good return. They get a big package of players, but none of our elite guys. In my opinion you can get a young stud like Bradley, making less than Sale, with an extra year of team control and expect elite prospects also. It's one or the other. You get the Young stud player or a couple of elite prospects. That's actually a wholly reasonable package for Sale. I'm sure the White Sox ask for a lot more, but I'd 100% support that deal. Possible next step in that scenario: sign Ian Desmond, move Mookie to CF. It'd cost a draft pick, which I'm not keen on, but Desmond is a capable CF and probably has enough arm for RF. It would really depend on the deal, though, because dropping 5/100 on a guy like that will clog the OF picture if Moncada looks like a RFer when Devers is ready. By all accounts, Devers is becoming a superior defensive 3b, and he has a great arm that would be wasted at first. Just say no to Desmond and/ or fowler please. Move benintendi to center. Leave mookie in right, I think he led all right fielders in assists from there, let's leave well enough alone. We sign/trade for a left fielder to platoon with young plus sprinkle in an occasional holt.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 5, 2016 16:29:47 GMT -5
Red Sox still in on Sale.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 5, 2016 16:56:22 GMT -5
How about Moncada, Swihart and a bag of balls for Sale? Could the price go down to that?
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