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Non-Sox Spring Training Discussion
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Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 25, 2015 11:05:35 GMT -5
...I also think that if the market was totally open bid, ie, no draft, the 1-1's would get significantly more but on the other hand, not as much as Moncada because of the scarcity component. Therefore, this can't be used as the benchmark for what the market would be. Like I said, this starts to get us some idea of the market. You can't do price discovery if you don't have prices. This is certainly distorted by the artificially maintained shortage. That said, the current spending restrictions for young talent - the spending pool each team is allocated - is way out of line with what that talent is actually worth to the teams. As to Chris's point, the best one-stop source for a detailed history of the exemption and the challenges to it, is Brad Snyder's A Well-Paid Slave: Curt Flood's Fight for Free Agency in Professional Sports.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 25, 2015 13:14:08 GMT -5
Vigorous co-sign. I actually got to take a class in law school where we read this book. And actually, if anyone wants to buy my copy, PM me. My fiancée took the same class so we have two copies.
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Post by mgoetze on Feb 25, 2015 20:20:15 GMT -5
"For the past two seasons, manager John Farrell has followed suit, giving the team a cohesive approach to implementing sabermetrics." What?!
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Post by joshv02 on Feb 25, 2015 21:11:30 GMT -5
I don't think that has nearly as much to do with what would happen as the fact that the court will need a reason to overturn precedent. "It's a bad precedent" isn't enough. As the article says, SCOTUS has had the opportunity to overturn the exemption in the past and hasn't done so. Yeah, the Roberts Court (and the Rehnquist one preceding) has overturned plenty of precedents ... but there's usually a compelling ideological reason for it, and this doesn't really have one. So, I guess I'm saying that I think you're both right. MLB's probably pretty safe. This court doesn't really feel compelled by anti-trust arguments to overturn precedent, I think. Disagree. The Roberts court has shown a lot of interest in antitrust issues. Ropes and gray put out a client advisory about this last year detailing the rise of antitrust cases since Roberts.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 26, 2015 8:15:35 GMT -5
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Post by brianthetaoist on Feb 26, 2015 8:17:22 GMT -5
Yeah, the Roberts Court (and the Rehnquist one preceding) has overturned plenty of precedents ... but there's usually a compelling ideological reason for it, and this doesn't really have one. So, I guess I'm saying that I think you're both right. MLB's probably pretty safe. This court doesn't really feel compelled by anti-trust arguments to overturn precedent, I think. Disagree. The Roberts court has shown a lot of interest in antitrust issues. Ropes and gray put out a client advisory about this last year detailing the rise of antitrust cases since Roberts. Getting far off topic, so I'll stop here, but that's interesting to me ... my work ends up focusing in a lot of other areas of the relationship between corporations and the public sphere (labor, workplace safety, consumer issues, etc), and the Roberts court hasn't demonstrated much sympathy, to say the least, so I just assumed the same was true on anti-trust. If you have any good links, PM me ...
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 26, 2015 8:45:23 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal ?@ken_Rosenthal 16m16 minutes ago #BlueJays’ Saunders to miss 1st half with torn meniscus, per @shidavidi. Bautista, Pillar, Pompey only other OFers on team’s 40-man roster.
Victorino's value is rising already, one less starting outfielder (two if you include Hamilton).
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alnipper
Veteran
Living the dream
Posts: 619
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Post by alnipper on Feb 26, 2015 12:31:57 GMT -5
Sad news about Josh Hamilton relapsing. Yes, I think the Angels will check in with the Sox for a trade.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 26, 2015 13:45:42 GMT -5
Sad news about Josh Hamilton relapsing. Yes, I think the Angels will check in with the Sox for a trade. Too bad about Hamilton. And yeah, the Sox could use another outfielder or DH. They don't have enough of them.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 26, 2015 13:55:07 GMT -5
Sad news about Josh Hamilton relapsing. Yes, I think the Angels will check in with the Sox for a trade. Too bad about Hamilton. And yeah, the Sox could use another outfielder or DH. They don't have enough of them. He meant to trade for one to fill in.
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Post by kman22 on Feb 26, 2015 14:04:42 GMT -5
Too bad about Hamilton. And yeah, the Sox could use another outfielder or DH. They don't have enough of them. He meant to trade for one to fill in. Italics = Sarcasm?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 26, 2015 18:37:36 GMT -5
Too bad about Hamilton. And yeah, the Sox could use another outfielder or DH. They don't have enough of them. He meant to trade for one to fill in. Dooooh! What's the the button for abject embarrassment?!?
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Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 26, 2015 20:55:21 GMT -5
... Jon Heyman ?@jonheymancbs 46m46 minutes ago Florida, USA yankees have a couple reasons to think they can win $30M battle w/ arod. AR preparing for battle too cbsprt.co/1ERxTpDFrom that link: From this 2009 link: Jose Canseco told everyone years ago what was going on. Heyman is asking us to believe that in 2003, after Rodriguez made that list, that it never got to MLB. And that A-Rod's use while playing for Texas somehow dropped into the void. Heyman and all the MLB-certified "reporters", never attributed Canseco with any "thought" whatsoever, of course, even though the guy nailed users years ago. Only those who believe that the old media rules are still in play, where you can hide your complicity by pretending there was no available information, could write such drivel. It may have been possible to publish that sort of distorted hype years ago, but it took me all of a 30 second search to discount that story down to zero. I stopped reading at that point. Add: Here's a link to this year's AL salary breakdown from FanGraphs. A quote that makes it easier to understand why the Yankees might litigate any bonus money for Rodriguez. It's probably something they took into consideration when they came up short on Moncada also: The team has painted itself into a very expensive corner and they have little room to maneuver. It's hard to see how they can avoid paying the tax for quite a few more years. That's especially true if they expect to bid on what will be a rich crop of free-agent pitchers. From what we saw at the end of last year, Tanaka will surely need surgery at some point. That puts an extra coat of paint on that corner job.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 27, 2015 17:06:03 GMT -5
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 27, 2015 18:06:13 GMT -5
Rays released Josh Sale.
As much as Friedman gets ballwashed for the work he did on the major league side for that team, the drafts he oversaw undid a lot of that work. That 2011 draft, given what they could have done, was such a massive swing and miss that it set that franchise back an incredible amount.
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 27, 2015 18:28:27 GMT -5
The Rays 2011 draft is probably the most astounding failure in the history of amateur scouting. They had TEN first and supplemental round draft picks. From picks 24 to 60 they were picking basically every fourth pick. Only Mikie Mahtook and Blake Snell are even in the organization's Top 10.
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Post by charliezink16 on Feb 27, 2015 18:38:00 GMT -5
The Rays 2011 draft is probably the most astounding failure in the history of amateur scouting. They had TEN first and supplemental round draft picks. From picks 24 to 60 they were picking basically every fourth pick. Only Mikie Mahtook and Blake Snell are even in the organization's Top 10. I remember how worried some on this board, myself included, were about those picks, especially with how talented that class was. Unbelievable how it turned out.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 27, 2015 18:52:08 GMT -5
The crazy part is that the 2011 draft was loaded. Never mind that the Red Sox alone drafted Betts, Swihart, Owens, Barnes, and Bradley (although eerily, the Sox drafted Mickey Pena, Cody Kukuk, AND Cody Koback in the latter half of the first ten rounds, hitting the off-field issues trifecta), here's a random sampling of other names: Jose Fernandez, Anthony Rendon, Gerrit Cole, Dylan Bundy, Archie Bradley, Francisco Lindor, Javier Baez, George Springer, Sonny Gray, Alex Meyer, Robert Stephenson, Brad Miller, Daniel Norris, Tony Cingrani (3rd), Tyler Glasnow (5th), Marcus Semien (6th), and so forth.
How you come out of that with Guerreri, Mahtook, and Snell and very little else... dear god.
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 27, 2015 20:11:37 GMT -5
The crazy part is that the 2011 draft was loaded. Never mind that the Red Sox alone drafted Betts, Swihart, Owens, Barnes, and Bradley (although eerily, the Sox drafted Mickey Pena, Cody Kukuk, AND Cody Koback in the latter half of the first ten rounds, hitting the off-field issues trifecta), here's a random sampling of other names: Jose Fernandez, Anthony Rendon, Gerrit Cole, Dylan Bundy, Archie Bradley, Francisco Lindor, Javier Baez, George Springer, Sonny Gray, Alex Meyer, Robert Stephenson, Brad Miller, Daniel Norris, Tony Cingrani (3rd), Tyler Glasnow (5th), Marcus Semien (6th), and so forth. How you come out of that with Guerreri, Mahtook, and Snell and very little else... dear god. In the Rays defense, their first pick wasn't until #24. The front end of that draft looks really really loaded, but they didn't have a shot at most of the guys you listed. The second half of the first round looks much more spotty - making the Red Sox draft all the more impressive. Of course, one of the reasons it looks so spotty is because of all the misses by the Rays. Part of the problem is likkely to be player development too, right? Mahtook seemed like a safe pick and he should be ready by now. Guerreri, like too many guys they've taken, went off the rails with off-field stuff.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 27, 2015 22:25:03 GMT -5
Great point.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 27, 2015 22:29:33 GMT -5
You have to put that Rays draft on the ownership not the management. The writeups at the time indicated that they were given a budget which either allowed them to draft 1 or 2 big $$ players or use all of the picks and spread the money. They chose the later which in retrospect was a mistake but the initial low budget was the cause. . . . This should be interesting: www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/25084379I can't see how the MLPA can complain, they signed off on it and nothing about that had changed from the previous agreement. It's not anything recent. . . . Pete Abraham ?@peteabe 2h2 hours ago Good luck to Rich Hill, who signed a minor league deal with the Nationals and was invited to camp.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 28, 2015 6:34:35 GMT -5
Oh stop man, you're hurting me here. Gray was my binky prior to the draft (along with Daniel Norris) and we were one pick away from taking him. In retrospect, it makes the draft seem a little more like a crapshoot. Gray was too obviously talented to fall as far as he did in the first place.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 28, 2015 14:03:24 GMT -5
MLB ?@mlb 33m33 minutes ago .@whitesox LHP Chris Sale suffers right foot fracture, status for #OpeningDay unclear: atmlb.com/1C9tz7n Nick Piecoro ?@nickpiecoro 33m33 minutes ago Jeremy Hellickson just walked off the mound near the end of his session. He's feeling around his right rib cage area.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 28, 2015 15:12:44 GMT -5
Rays NRI Ronald Belisario fractured his non-throwing shoulder getting out of a pool... a month ago... and didn't realize it. Throw that in the "strange but true injuries" pile.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 1, 2015 17:10:56 GMT -5
Roch Kubatko ?@masnroch 2h2 hours ago Buck said some players moved from the bench to the top step of the dugout to watch Jason Garcia pitch. #orioles
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