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Post by soxfan06 on Jul 21, 2015 20:55:02 GMT -5
Why's Farrell taking him out there? 1) To have a chance to win the ball game. Really? With this bullpen? 2) To let Johnson get out on a confident note. Yeah that worked brilliantly. 3) Cause he has no clue what he's doing. Ding-ding-ding! We have a winner. It's just godawful. It's insane how he has made it this long.
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Post by soxfan06 on Jul 21, 2015 20:55:49 GMT -5
May be a dumb comment, how are those earned runs for johnson? Because even if we got the out, it would have only been 2 outs. Just wait til Masterson lets the 4th "earned" run score. EDIT: Right on queue.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jul 21, 2015 20:58:29 GMT -5
Hanley flashing the leather tonight.
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wcp3
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Posts: 3,824
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Post by wcp3 on Jul 21, 2015 20:58:40 GMT -5
When we wake up tomorrow, will Masterson, Napoli, Victorino be on the roster?
We all know the answer's yes. The question is why.
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Post by soxfan06 on Jul 21, 2015 21:00:31 GMT -5
When we wake up tomorrow, will Masterson, Napoli, Victorino be on the roster? We all know the answer's yes. The question is why. Because of John Farrell. Who should be the first one "no longer on the team" It is truly mind boggling how he still has a job.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 21, 2015 21:02:56 GMT -5
May be a dumb comment, how are those earned runs for johnson? Hanigan's not gonna be charged for an error on that throw, and so there's pretty much no way for them to be called unearned. Good example of why ERA isn't the best indicator of performance (past or future).
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Post by soxfan06 on Jul 21, 2015 21:04:06 GMT -5
May be a dumb comment, how are those earned runs for johnson? Hanigan's not gonna be charged for an error on that throw, and so there's pretty much no way for them to be called unearned. Good example of why ERA isn't the best indicator of performance (past or future). Hanigan absolutely was charged with an error.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 21, 2015 21:07:23 GMT -5
Hanigan's not gonna be charged for an error on that throw, and so there's pretty much no way for them to be called unearned. Good example of why ERA isn't the best indicator of performance (past or future). Hanigan absolutely was charged with an error. Was he? In that case it had to do with sequencing and the fact that even assuming the throw didn't go into the outfield, the runners still would have eventually scored. Either way, shows a flaw in ERA, because of the whole inherited runners thing.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jul 21, 2015 21:08:02 GMT -5
May be a dumb comment, how are those earned runs for johnson? The runs will not be earned runs because subsequent game action (hits) made the error irrelevant — the assumption being that the runs would have scored even if the error had not been made.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 21, 2015 21:08:34 GMT -5
He wasn't charged with an error on the potential out on the runner, but rather the overthrow that allowed the runs to score. So there would have been the same number of outs and the runs would have scored on the subsequent plays.
EDIT: Ogilvie the Younger beat me to it.
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Post by semsox on Jul 21, 2015 21:10:12 GMT -5
So is this where we opine that maybe Farrell doesn't do a great job with younger players? I don't understand the hook for Johnson in this game.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jul 21, 2015 21:10:26 GMT -5
Hanigan absolutely was charged with an error. Was he? In that case it had to do with sequencing and the fact that even assuming the throw didn't go into the outfield, the runners still would have eventually scored. Either way, shows a flaw in ERA, because of the whole inherited runners thing. I don't see how inherited runners affect era in this example.
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Post by ray88h66 on Jul 21, 2015 21:12:30 GMT -5
I liked Johnson's curve and the fast pace he worked.
Has to get rid of that Lester like toss to first. I think that was why the guy decided to run. He would steal second even if Johnson threw it too first with that soft lob.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 21, 2015 21:13:34 GMT -5
So is this where we opine that maybe Farrell doesn't do a great job with younger players? I don't understand the hook for Johnson in this game. I actually think it was the right time to take Johnson out. He was a bit on the wobbly side in general and going through the heart of the Houston order a third time wouldn't necessarily be a great idea.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 21, 2015 21:14:37 GMT -5
Was he? In that case it had to do with sequencing and the fact that even assuming the throw didn't go into the outfield, the runners still would have eventually scored. Either way, shows a flaw in ERA, because of the whole inherited runners thing. I don't see how inherited runners affect era in this example. Well one inherited runner did score, the other two, assuming Hanigan's ball didn't go into centerfield would have been inherited runners that scored (because scoring assumes Johnson would be taken out at the same point regardless or that he would have given up the same hits), hence earned runs that would have been charged to Johnson.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jul 21, 2015 21:17:14 GMT -5
I don't see how inherited runners affect era in this example. Well one inherited runner did score, the other two, assuming Hanigan's ball didn't go into centerfield would have been inherited runners that scored (because scoring assumes Johnson would be taken out at the same point regardless or that he would have given up the same hits), hence earned runs that would have been charged to Johnson. How is that a flaw?
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jul 21, 2015 21:20:36 GMT -5
How does a big league pitcher miss the plate by that much?
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 21, 2015 21:23:55 GMT -5
Well one inherited runner did score, the other two, assuming Hanigan's ball didn't go into centerfield would have been inherited runners that scored (because scoring assumes Johnson would be taken out at the same point regardless or that he would have given up the same hits), hence earned runs that would have been charged to Johnson. How is that a flaw? Um because according to the statistic Brian Johnson is a worse pitcher for hits allowed by Justin Masterson. Say Masterson comes in and gets the next two guys out, Johnson is only charged with one earned run for the night. Why should Masterson's performance have anything to do with how we judge Johnson's?
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jul 21, 2015 21:24:29 GMT -5
This really doesn't look like a professional operation. Free bases and base runners galore.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jul 21, 2015 21:25:30 GMT -5
Um because according to the statistic Brian Johnson is a worse pitcher for hits allowed by Justin Masterson. Well, you leave the game with runners on base, sometimes they score. Sometimes they don't. Edit: Bases loaded, one out, #2 hitter up: two runners scoring is quite likely equal, or better, to what Johnson may have done.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 21, 2015 21:29:35 GMT -5
Um because according to the statistic Brian Johnson is a worse pitcher for hits allowed by Justin Masterson. Well, you leave the game with runners on base, sometimes they score. Sometimes they don't. Yeah and whether they score or not after you leave the game says nothing about how you performed in the game.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 21, 2015 21:32:42 GMT -5
This is just a really comprehensive example by the Red Sox of how to piss away a winnable game in such a fashion that it goes from winnable to unwinnable so quickly and completely, it becomes a moot event in the grand sceme of anything of value.
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Post by soxfan06 on Jul 21, 2015 21:32:52 GMT -5
I truly want to dish out all the trash and get rid of the manager, but I worry that those simple moves actually improve the team and we finish outside the bottom 10.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jul 21, 2015 21:34:28 GMT -5
Well, you leave the game with runners on base, sometimes they score. Sometimes they don't. Yeah and whether they score or not after you leave the game says nothing about how you performed in the game. Of course it does. If he hadn't put them on, they couldn't have scored. Had he pitched more economically, or effectively, he likely would have been left in to attempt to strand them.
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TX
Veteran
Posts: 265
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Post by TX on Jul 21, 2015 21:38:31 GMT -5
Done here. First pick or bust, anything else is a complete and utter failure. If you're going to lose continuously, lose continuously with purpose.
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