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Post by jmei on Jul 29, 2015 10:40:34 GMT -5
Dodgers to acquire Mat Latos and Mike Morse (incl. taking on their salaries) and a CBT pick for three minor league arms.
Another move I really like from the Dodgers.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 29, 2015 10:44:19 GMT -5
Dodgers to acquire Mat Latos and Mike Morse (incl. taking on their salaries) and a CBT pick for three minor league arms. Another move I really like from the Dodgers. That GM was absolutely available this past winter. Just saying (and said so then).
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steveofbradenton
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Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
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Post by steveofbradenton on Jul 29, 2015 10:49:39 GMT -5
Dodgers to acquire Mat Latos and Mike Morse (incl. taking on their salaries) and a CBT pick for three minor league arms. Another move I really like from the Dodgers. That may eliminate the Dodgers from acquiring Hamels. I am NOT advocating us picking him up.....just saying.
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Post by sammo420 on Jul 29, 2015 10:59:08 GMT -5
Dodgers to acquire Mat Latos and Mike Morse (incl. taking on their salaries) and a CBT pick for three minor league arms. Another move I really like from the Dodgers. That may eliminate the Dodgers from acquiring Hamels. I am NOT advocating us picking him up.....just saying. It probably means Amaro is still asking for their entire top ten plus the Hope diamond for him.
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Post by jdb on Jul 29, 2015 10:59:21 GMT -5
Thatt and the Tousant trade are ones Ben should be lookiing at. Heck he would have had time to flip Latos.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Jul 29, 2015 11:14:06 GMT -5
Dodgers to acquire Mat Latos and Mike Morse (incl. taking on their salaries) and a CBT pick for three minor league arms. Another move I really like from the Dodgers. That GM was absolutely available this past winter. Just saying (and said so then). Even if he was available I doubt he would've moved to a division rival (even if he preferred the Red Sox job to the Dodgers job which probably was not the case).
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 29, 2015 11:52:27 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal 2m2 minutes ago Source: Under terms of trade agreement, if completed, Papelbon will close for #Nationals and be signed for 2016. Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal 33s33 seconds ago Source adds: Papelbon will be taking millions less to leave #Phillies. Presumably this means they're renegotiating his 2016 option to guarantee it but make it worth less. Player's association isn't going to like it. There are some attenuating circumstances (the option is not guaranteed to vest, Papelbon wants out of Philadelphia badly), but the PA has always been very wary of setting a bad precedent and sliding down the slippery slope. Yeah, isn't that how we didn't wind up with ARod and won 3 World Series?
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jul 29, 2015 11:57:19 GMT -5
Team has more leverage because they could just not use him as a closer, so his "games finished" vesting option would not kick in. Apparently being a "closer" has value. Sox were just cutting money and A-Rod was not going to get anything back beyond leaving Texas, if I remember the rumors.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jul 29, 2015 12:05:51 GMT -5
That may eliminate the Dodgers from acquiring Hamels. I am NOT advocating us picking him up.....just saying. It probably means Amaro is still asking for their entire top ten plus the Hope diamond for him. For Amaro? It would be comical.. Not sure how much you study history, even care about it.. Hope diamond has a really nasty history going back centuries that has befallen those who have owned it.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 29, 2015 12:12:34 GMT -5
That GM was absolutely available this past winter. Just saying (and said so then). Even if he was available I doubt he would've moved to a division rival (even if he preferred the Red Sox job to the Dodgers job which probably was not the case). Why? Personally, I think ownership was fine with Ben at the time. If it was this coming winter, thought I think Andrew Friedman would be introduced as the new president of baseball operations and GM of the Boston Red Sox.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 29, 2015 12:14:31 GMT -5
Presumably this means they're renegotiating his 2016 option to guarantee it but make it worth less. Player's association isn't going to like it. There are some attenuating circumstances (the option is not guaranteed to vest, Papelbon wants out of Philadelphia badly), but the PA has always been very wary of setting a bad precedent and sliding down the slippery slope. Yeah, isn't that how we didn't wind up with ARod and won 3 World Series? Papelbon seems like the kind of guy who wouldn't care what the union says on this. ARod had much more stature in the game at the time (thank God).
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Post by sammo420 on Jul 29, 2015 12:32:07 GMT -5
It probably means Amaro is still asking for their entire top ten plus the Hope diamond for him. For Amaro? It would be comical.. Not sure how much you study history, even care about it.. Hope diamond has a really nasty history going back centuries that has befallen those who have owned it. You piqued my interest. Got any good reads or views on the topic?
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Post by sammo420 on Jul 29, 2015 12:35:23 GMT -5
Even if he was available I doubt he would've moved to a division rival (even if he preferred the Red Sox job to the Dodgers job which probably was not the case). Why? Personally, I think ownership was fine with Ben at the time. If it was this coming winter, thought I think Andrew Friedman would be introduced as the new president of baseball operations and GM of the Boston Red Sox. DO you ever have dreams of Friedman and Beane mud wrestling each other for the privilege of Gm'ing us?
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Post by Guidas on Jul 29, 2015 14:20:31 GMT -5
Why? Personally, I think ownership was fine with Ben at the time. If it was this coming winter, thought I think Andrew Friedman would be introduced as the new president of baseball operations and GM of the Boston Red Sox. DO you ever have dreams of Friedman and Beane mud wrestling each other for the privilege of Gm'ing us? Yes, but Kate Upton and I are wrestling in Jell-o in a adjoining ring so I always miss what happens with Bean and Friedman. My guess is Mozeliak chairs them both from the ropes and gets the belt.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 29, 2015 14:23:04 GMT -5
He's at his zenith and he has control and has better "right now" stats. This is a right now deal, obviously with 2 months of Zobrist being the return. Zobrist has a longer history of sustained performance but he's in decline and will be a free agent. In 2015, Zobrist is hitting .268/.354/.447 (125 wRC+), while Holt is at .284/.364/.395 (112 wRC+), so that's not really true. Even if it was, the fact that Holt hit well the last couple months matters, but it doesn't outweigh a half-decade of Zobrist being a much better hitter. To put it another way, Fangraphs projects Zobrist for a 118 wRC+ going forward and Holt for a 91 wRC+ going forward. That sounds about right (though I'm a little more bullish on Holt going forward and think he'll be closer to a 100 wRC+ hitter). FWIW Tim Britton from the Projo believes Holt is worth more than Zobrist in the current market: The Red Sox have a guy like Zobrist in Brock Holt — and Holt comes with All-Star credentials this season and four more years of team control. He should command a considerably bigger return package than Zobrist. (http://www.providencejournal.com/article/20150729/SPORTS/150729257/14009/?Start=6) Then again, Britton went to Duke so he's lived much of his recent life in abject delusion and poor judgment.
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Post by jmei on Jul 29, 2015 14:41:30 GMT -5
It comes down to how much you value years of team control versus the better present player. Midseason, I tend to think teams prefer the better present player.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jul 29, 2015 14:43:46 GMT -5
For Amaro? It would be comical.. Not sure how much you study history, even care about it.. Hope diamond has a really nasty history going back centuries that has befallen those who have owned it. You piqued my interest. Got any good reads or views on the topic? Sure.. Older people supposedly cursed by it: Hope curses1More recent supposed curses by the diamond: Hope curses2This old "in search of" from the 1970's that talks about the curse of the Hope Diamond: In search of youtubeSmithsonian Channel put out a REALLY good one several years back, don't see it listed on YouTube however.
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 29, 2015 15:10:13 GMT -5
Dodgers to acquire Mat Latos and Mike Morse (incl. taking on their salaries) and a CBT pick for three minor league arms. Another move I really like from the Dodgers. Morse is reportedly being shipped to a yet-unknown third team.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 29, 2015 15:11:07 GMT -5
You piqued my interest. Got any good reads or views on the topic? Sure.. Older people supposedly cursed by it: Hope curses1More recent supposed curses by the diamond: Hope curses2This old "in search of" from the 1970's that talks about the curse of the Hope Diamond: In search of youtubeSmithsonian Channel put out a REALLY good one several years back, don't see it listed on YouTube however. So the Red Sox had the Hope Diamond in 2013 and then got rid of it. This explains everything.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 29, 2015 15:23:29 GMT -5
It comes down to how much you value years of team control versus the better present player. Midseason, I tend to think teams prefer the better present player. I guess it then depends on how you define "present" and the acquiring need but in many key categories, Holt comes out ahead. 2015 WAR Zobrist (Fangraphs) 1.1 Holt 2.2 OBP Zobrist .354 Holt .364 wRC+ Zobrist 125 Holt 112 Dollar Value (Fangraphs) Zobrist $8.5M Holt $17.9 UZR/150 OF* Zobrist -14.7 Holt 17.3 2nd base** Zobrist -14.6 Holt 17.6 The only infield position Zobrist has played this year. Holt has played all but pitcher and catcher. 2nd is the only one where he has a positive rating. Conversely, Zobrist has not played 3rd or 1st since 2010 and not play SS since 2013. Of course, there was no category for overall grittiness, clubhousiness, and intangibles - a.k.a. Gomesiness. But if that's your fallback position, I think this, and Hair, also reside in Holt's ledger. * KC said Zobrist will primarily play OF. ** Zobrist has only played 2nd as an infield position this year.
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Post by jmei on Jul 29, 2015 15:27:53 GMT -5
As mentioned, you cannot judge players solely by their year-to-date stats, especially when the major difference between them is small samples of defensive metrics.
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danr
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Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Jul 29, 2015 15:28:56 GMT -5
Tigers have decided to "reboot," meaning Price and Cespedes are on the market.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 29, 2015 15:30:57 GMT -5
Tigers have decided to "reboot," meaning Price and Cespedes are on the market. Sandoval for Cabrera.
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Post by thegoo13 on Jul 29, 2015 15:44:18 GMT -5
As mentioned, you cannot judge players solely by their year-to-date stats, especially when the major difference between them is small samples of defensive metrics. LOL. Before you even factor in age you cannot say, today, Zobrist is the better player. Now take age into consideration and there is no way Zobrist should have more value than Holt. Now take control into consideration and there is no way you can't say Holt is not the more desirable player today. Numbers aside, this is common sense. It's like you are taking your Joe Kelly doesn't really suck because advanced metrics says so and flipping it over to say Brock Holt isn't as good a player even though advanced metrics say so.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 29, 2015 15:44:30 GMT -5
As mentioned, you cannot judge players solely by their year-to-date stats, especially when the major difference between them is small samples of defensive metrics. You we're the one who mentioned better "present" player. Body of work, experience, it's Zobrist. Current ability, value, experience at more positions in a pinch and younger legs, Holt. Unless you want to parse your own use of the word "present." Which is fine. Go ahead.
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